Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

[DavidH]

Belief is EXACTLY a conscious choice.

Then you should be able to choose to believe that gods are nothing but characters in books.

Do it now. Give it a couple of days and choose believe again later.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

A bad long weekend, and then he gets to be a god.

Where was the sacrifice?

This.

And really it wasn't even a bad weekend, but merely a bad day. However long it took for his torture, then 6 on the cross. Not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second for an eternal being. A mortal man stubbing his toe on the coffee table is more traumatic.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Do it now. Give it a couple of days and choose believe again later.

Divine compulsion - 1
Free will - 0

 

[Rotare]

The LORD specifically says that no one knows when Christ will return except God the Father, so anyone who predicts it is a false prophet who in Old Testament times would have been pelted with stones to death:

Providing a reply which is purely based on what it is written in the bible is pointless, and doesn’t add anything to this discussion.


Several thousand years ago, a small tribe of ignorant near-savages wrote various collections of myths, wild tales, lies, and gibberish. Over the centuries, the stories were embroidered, garbled, mutilated, and torn into small pieces that were then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text, creationists feel, is the best guide to this complex and technical subject.

—Science Made Stupid (1985)

 

[Rotare]

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

Stephen Roberts

 

[Teng]

Wow, just came back from my office and notice already so many comments here. I really could not catch up the speedAnyway I still wish God bless all of you here. [emoji4][emoji4]




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[Teng]

Are they not all false? How do you test them?

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4 KJV [emoji4][emoji4]



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[StomperCrawler]

Divine compulsion - 1
Free will - 0

Your giving credit to "Divine compulsion" means that you give credence to a divine being, namely God.

 

[StomperCrawler]

This.

And really it wasn't even a bad weekend, but merely a bad day. However long it took for his torture, then 6 on the cross. Not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second for an eternal being. A mortal man stubbing his toe on the coffee table is more traumatic.

Time outside of the physical realm (in hell, for instance) has different parameters... or haven't you watched any sci-fi movies?

 

[StomperCrawler]

Providing a reply which is purely based on what it is written in the bible is pointless, and doesn’t add anything to this discussion.


Several thousand years ago, a small tribe of ignorant near-savages wrote various collections of myths, wild tales, lies, and gibberish. Over the centuries, the stories were embroidered, garbled, mutilated, and torn into small pieces that were then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text, creationists feel, is the best guide to this complex and technical subject.

—Science Made Stupid (1985)

I would argue that quoting the Creator God adds everything to this discussion since He is the source of all truth, which is what you claim to be searching for. Stating our own opinions or quoting anyone else's proves nothing since we are all flawed (by Adam's choice) lesser created beings with inferior intellect.

 

[Rotare]

I would argue that quoting the Creator God adds everything to this discussion since He is the source of all truth, which is what you claim to be searching for

I actually haven’t ‘claimed’ to be searching for anything. Where did you pluck that idea from? I’m actually blissfully content in my life without the need to believe in any type of god.

Stating our own opinions or quoting anyone else's proves nothing since we are all flawed (by Adam's choice) lesser created beings with inferior intellect.

You seem to struggle with the concept of circular reasoning....

 

[StomperCrawler]

So you think it's ok to sentence the wrong person to death for a murder? If a murder has been committed then someone has to pay. Someone gets executed and everything is fine and dandy again. Whether the executee did it or not is irrelevant.

If you get a traffic ticket and I choose to pay it for you, is that wrong or unjust?

What about the story in the bible about the drunken father (can't remember his name) who had passed out with his junk exposed? His son came to wake him and saw his wedding tackle. The son was beaten for seeing the afforementioned trousersnake. This is said to be well and proper by the bible. Was the son at fault or the father?

Noah's son Ham walked in on his father sleeping naked and then boasted about it to his brothers, thus dishonoring their father. He wasn't beaten, but his father did curse him for his indiscretion.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Your giving credit to "Divine compulsion" means that you give credence to a divine being, namely God.

I can talk about elves and orcs without believing in elves and orcs.

Time outside of the physical realm (in hell, for instance) has different parameters... or haven't you watched any sci-fi movies?

"Fi" means fiction. I suppose that this would be rel-fi.

 

[DavidH]

Rather than pick this mess apart,

It's not my mess, it's yours. I am simply shining a light on it.

I'll just ask this question: who else is qualified to play judge in a case against God except God Himself? You? Try reading the book of Job, specifically chapters 38-41, and maybe you'll get an idea of how far that'll get you:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+38

I'm not here to plug the holes in your theology for you.

While we're here, let's look at the reasons for punishment that your hypothetical god might be using:

From what I understand, there are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) As a deterrent, to show others that such behaviour is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behaviour.

In the context of "Hell", the person's life is over, so #3 doesn't apply.

Note that for #3 that the sin of disbelief is not a conscious act.

As we have no demonstrable evidence for the existence of a biblical "Hell", or that anyone has gone there, #2 doesn't apply. It's not even a toy gun, it's your imaginary gun that you can only talk about.

So that leaves us with #1. If Hell exists, then your [hypothetical] god sends people there out of his own vengeance, for something beyond their control.

How is that not morally bankrupt? Do you just sweep this under the rug as well?

 

[DavidH]

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4 KJV [emoji4][emoji4]



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By that measure, all religious teachers are false.

 

[DavidH]

Not all religious people rally against science. You can be incredibly devout and still come to the conclusion that ancient views on the world were ill informed and it's authors fallible on those topics.

Only the most literal interpreters ignore modern understandings.

 

[ThatJeeper2017]

The Bible hardly says that. Read the Bible or don’t make assumptions.



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[SVEN]

What I don't get is why does religion fight against the Big Bang and evolution?

I don't understand the fight either. It also seems people want to insert God into whatever they do not understand. Science is always expanding the knowledge of the world we live in, so....

"God has to be more to you, than where science has yet to tread"
-Neil deGrasse Tyson


I love science. As an engineer, I have done plenty of study on how this world functions and how the age of the earth has been calculated. So, it baffles me that a lot of Christians fight evolution like it goes against their belief.

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Dr. Francis Collins is a geneticist, physician, and has been the director for the National Human Genome Research Institute. You may have heard of that little project.

If you have some time, please watch his Caltech presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGu_VtbpWhE

There is some good stuff in the Q&A, starting at 1:02:00.

I think it is helpful to hear from someone who has helped with discoveries that show proof of evolution and who also is a believer in Jesus Christ's salvation.


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I want to thank GREEDY GENIUS for starting this thread. It has certainly helped me to search deeper into my own belief.

To answer the question posed, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD,HEAVEN OR HELL?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Belief is not a conscious choice.

I just want to touch on this, as it is the basis for the original question in the thread.

This idea that belief is not a conscious choice has been stated numerous times, so I feel I should post the Merriam-Webster definition for the word belief.....

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief?src=search-dict-hed

Definition of belief
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing; her belief in God; a belief in democracy; I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique; contrary to popular belief

2 : something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church

3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence; belief in the validity of scientific statements

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.....seems like a conscious choice to me. Looking up the definition from other sources provides similar results. I could post them as well, but would rather not make this post unnecessarily longer.

 

[DavidH]

The Bible hardly says that. Read the Bible or don’t make assumptions.



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It seems to me that there are as many interpretations of the bible as there are religionists. You simply cherry-pick it as you see fit.

 

[DavidH]

...
I just want to touch on this, as it is the basis for the original question in the thread.

This idea that belief is not a conscious choice has been stated numerous times, so I feel I should post the Merriam-Webster definition for the word belief.....

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief?src=search-dict-hed

Definition of belief
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing; her belief in God; a belief in democracy; I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique; contrary to popular belief

2 : something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church

3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence; belief in the validity of scientific statements

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.....seems like a conscious choice to me. Looking up the definition from other sources provides similar results. I could post them as well, but would rather not make this post unnecessarily longer.

Definitions are descriptive, not prescriptive.

As you edited it out of my post, I will reiterate the challenge I made there and elsewhere to the religionists in this thread; so far, none have stepped up to the plate:

Right now, consciously choose to believe that gods are nothing but characters in books.

Give it a week. Then choose to believe again. Can you do it?