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Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?
- Thread starter GREEDY GENIUS
- Start date
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
You are a little vague here. Are you telling me that is not what I think, or that you have some sort of mind-reading apparatus and know what every other religionist thinks?
Myself, I can only gather what other people think from what they say and write.
You wouldn't be the only one to think that, even the bible society recognises the issue too...
Over the centuries, Jewish and Christian scholars have developed different ways of interpreting the Bible....
Literal - One approach is to take biblical texts at face value.
Symbolic - Another way to read biblical texts is on a deeper, more symbolic level.
Ethical - A third way of interpreting the Bible is to look for an ‘ethical’ meaning.
Mystical - A fourth kind of interpretation finds mystical or eschatological meaning within Bible texts.
https://www.biblesociety.org.uk/explore-the-bible/bible-articles/how-can-the-bible-be-interpreted/
Surely with so many ways of interpreting the stories and words in the bible, they could literally mean anything? I'm guessing most followers don't use one method of interpretation for the whole bible, but 'mix n match' to suit....
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
Why would anyone who believes in God, who has come to trust Him with the plans of their earthly their lives, who has experienced the peace of God by casting their cares/anxieties on His shoulders rather than worrying about them, who enjoys daily intimacy with their Creator through reading His love letter to them and praying our hearts out to Him, who has seen Him work in their life to perform miracles and help them out-of/through tough situations, who trusts in Him for spending eternity in heaven when they die, who enjoys the fellowship of believers where the Holy Spirit brings unity, and on and on and on... want to withdraw from that experience for even a moment, much less an entire week?
Rather, wouldn't you like to give up pretending that you're in control of your own life and let the all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, eternal God of the Universe who loves you enough to let His Son endure excruciating torture and a gruesome death to save you from anxiety, loneliness, and hell? Instead of asking us to do without Him, why don't you take the challenge of choosing to entertain, for a week, the possibility that God does exist, and choose one of Lee Strobel's books to help walk you through the thought process? Can you do it?
Well that was predictable.
Divine compulsion - 2
Free will - 0
Divine compulsion - 2
Free will - 0
That's the "God of the Gaps" argument. Unknown = God.
It's actually a very dangerous position to take, because as soon as the unknown thing becomes know, your God gets smaller.
Unless of course you dismiss the now known thing as devilish trickery made to turn you away from God, which is silly.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
I have already gone through a couple of lee strobel's books, but I would like you stay with the challenge for now:
If belief was a conscious choice, as soon as you made that choice you would know that you were not missing anything. Problem solved.
You claim that belief is a conscious choice. Your theology is built on it. So step up to the plate, make that choice, or concede that belief is not a conscious choice. Which is it going to be? Free will, or not?
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
Good job taking a step toward the light!
What's the next step for you? Maybe asking God to help you believe, since that's something you think you can't do on your own.[the father said] "But if you can (unbelief) do anything, take pity on us. Please help us.” "If I can?", Jesus said, “Everything is possible for the one who believes." Right away the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe (choice)! Help me overcome my unbelief!” (from Mark 9:17-27).
Now, as to me shooting myself in both feet and trying to limp around for a week, no thanks; I'm all good with my choice.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
I would not think of strobel's books as a source of light, unless you lit them on fire. :lmao:Good job taking a step toward the light!
Can you write a sincere letter to Santa? Why not? Don't you want free stuff?
What is it with religionists and circular reasoning? Is it all you really have?
Now, as to me shooting myself in both feet and trying to limp around for a week, no thanks; I'm all good with my choice.
And with that, you just conceded that belief is not a conscious choice.
Not that I expect it will affect how tightly you cling to your religion.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
The Holy Bible is the word of God ! The word was given to several different people to write down, they were inspired by God on what to write at different times as it happened. It is all true, no fairy tales here. Adam and Eve did sin and that was the start of this awful sinful world we all live in now, But because God loved us so much he sent his son Jesus to save us to die for our sins ! We have a choice to accept Jesus as our Lord and savior ( which is the only way to be saved ) or to denie him and do what we want and believe what we want. Yes we can say there is no God, the Bible is false, a fairy tail and so on, that is our free will. We all have a soul and it is such a wonderful thing, please dont throw it a way.We all will go to either Heaven or hell ! Its up to us where we go by accepting Jesus or not,Our all mighty and powerful God made it so simple and FREE so don't make fun of this gift. Some day every knee shall bow and tongue confess to God. I pray everyone that reads this the Holy Spirit will touch and change your harden heart. GOD BLESS
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Good for you! I'm on the edge of my seat here. Everything you stated is so believable and makes sense! Just one more simple step though - provide some tangible, irrefutable evidence of the existence of your God (hint: don't use the bible as evidence since that would be circular reasoning).
Should be an easy request to appease as the evidence of god is overwhelming and everywhere...... apparently.
Or, proved the criteria you used to prove all other religions false so that we may examine yours in the same way.
ThatJeeper2017
Rock Crawler
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
As you have conceded that belief is not a conscious choice, lets take a look at this post.
And this is the 'loving' god that burn individuals forever for reasons beyond their control?
Do these miracles you speak of rise above chance and confirmation bias? A unified theory of everything? Cancer cures? Or just good parking spots and the finding of lost keys?
I did not find strobel's books compelling. They read like an exercise in self-deception, a pandering to the already-believers, and despite alluding to "almost concrete evidence" for the existence of god, he fails to produce anything of the type.
The intent was that you might make the effort to substantiate your own claim that belief is a conscious choice. But you shot yourself in the foot there.
And this is the 'loving' god that burn individuals forever for reasons beyond their control?
Do these miracles you speak of rise above chance and confirmation bias? A unified theory of everything? Cancer cures? Or just good parking spots and the finding of lost keys?
A bad weekend, for sure.
Yes and done.
I did not find strobel's books compelling. They read like an exercise in self-deception, a pandering to the already-believers, and despite alluding to "almost concrete evidence" for the existence of god, he fails to produce anything of the type.
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
Of course. The bible says its true, so it must be true. No circular reasoning there.
Free? It would seem to come at the cost of my intellectual integrity.
Can you actually believe whatever you want? I'm can't.
How about this: Can you believe that you have a million dollars cash in the bank?
StomperCrawler
RCC Addict
I never conceded such; you're confused. Clearly you have anti-God blinders on. If I were you I'd pray for the grace to remove them. Otherwise I fear you are doomed to burn forever due to YOUR OWN CHOICE to keep wearing them, rather than humbly asking your Creator for assistance in seeing the truth that confronts you every time you look outside.
It's also our choice not to go to Valhalla, or be reincarnated, or receive 20 virgins...
DavidH
Quarry Creeper
Perhaps you are unclear on the concept.
You: I can jump over this fence! Everyone can!
Me: I can't, but let's see you do it, or concede that you cannot.
You: Oh I really could, but I like it too much on this side of the fence to even attempt it.
:lmao:
With that, you have conceded.
Clearly, that fancy mind-reading hat of yours needs a tune up.
Is that the only shirt you own?
I cannot sincerely 'pray for grace' any more than I can write a sincere letter to Santa.
How about you? Have you sent your letter to Santa yet? Get it in before the rush. Or do you not want free stuff?
...by this 'loving' god of yours...
A choice that you yourself cannot make, correct?
Circular reasoning again.
If I can't see evidence for gods until I believe in gods, how can I sincerely ask for a god's help in seeing it? Do you really not give a **** about anyone else's point of view?
Would your worldview collapse if you were to abandon circular reasoning?
When I look outside, I see evidence that contradicts virtually all of the Christian claims that involve anthropology, archeology, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, evolution, genetics, and physics. My worldview does not require virtually all of modern science to be wildly inaccurate.
Perhaps you are the one that needs to loosen the straps a bit, let the blood circulate, breathe some fresh air, and peek around your bible to see and address what others are actually saying, rather than to continue blindly preaching.
As I have said already in this thread, what I seek is an accurate description of reality. You have done nothing to address this other than to declare yourself right and anyone that disagrees with you, wrong.
