2013 Rules

[WAM]

Yeah, I suppose. Actually he was running parallel to the gate so upon stepping off the marker he was technically "in" the gate. But a double penalty is a bit cutthroat and technical for a fun event. Toy cars

 

[HARDKNOCKZ]

Yeah...Bill's 127 years old. He MIGHT even be older than Don Hughes but I doubt it :mrgreen:

I agree...simple gate penalty unless he actually drove a gate out of sequence is plenty in most cases.

JD

 

[WAM]

Yeah...Bill's 127 years old. He MIGHT even be older than Don Hughes but I doubt it :mrgreen: JD

Yeah, that's why we get so impatient with you youngsters. And I think I have Don by a couple months maybe. I forget.

 

[Erik D_lux]

As soon as his rear entered from the wrong direction, stop time, repo, take your points, the back flip never happens.

Again, youre making stuff up and just telling us your opinion. Nowhere does it say that you have to get each axle or each tire through in the correct direction.

i dissagree, his video shows otherwise.

My video does show otherwise.

You need to understand what is going on here and disregard the video or just dont take it so matter of factly.

When I made the video, my interpretation of "entering" a gate was that I enter it, all is good, do whatever I want and I never need to enter again after that initial entry is made. Its very important to take a step back right now and understand that this is my interpretation/opinion. When the rules are not specific, you will have different ones. If you can now understand that I had a different opinion, you can see how I made the video at the time.

Fast forward, I came on here and my very first post about was to get some other opinions/interpretations on the idea of what it meant. Come to find out, I am pretty on my own on the interpretation. I am fine with this.

Even though there is nothing in the rules to back up many interpretations including mine in this thread, I am fine with settling on many that you guys have brought up. They sound very legit.

is it o.k to reposition on the gate by driving out of it, even if your rear tires are going to enter the gate in the wrong direction.

that is what i"m gathering.

EXACTLY!

My interpretation of the straddle rule has always been that you can straddle the gate with your fronts and then in one reverse, get the front that did not go through the gates between them which would make that single tire going through in the incorrect direction. I had never thought there was any debate about this so, my thoughts were "why can I get that 1 through like that but I cant get 2, 3 or even 4?"

Since you're all here, answer another one. :ror: At a comp this morning a car hit a marker for a later gate, not the one he was heading for. 10 points..

All depends on wheter or not he hit the front or insides of the gate. If so, 10 points entry, 10 points entering, repo. If he only hit the outside or "not in the gate", 10 points gate, no repo.

 

[Mariner]

Yeah, I suppose. Actually he was running parallel to the gate so upon stepping off the marker he was technically "in" the gate. But a double penalty is a bit cutthroat and technical for a fun event. Toy cars

Wouldn't time stop immediately upon him entering out of sequence or in the wrong direction, canceling the gate marker penalty?
Course direction penalty and reposition to the last cleared gate.

 

[ROWDY RACING]

Again, youre making stuff up and just telling us your opinion. Nowhere does it say that you have to get each axle or each tire through in the correct direction.

Yes it does, have you read the green portion of the rules that have been posted several times?

 

[Erik D_lux]

Progress is awarded when during the same attempt and in the intended course direction at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate. To receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty, all four tires must pass completely through the gate during the same attempt and in the intended course direction

Is this what youre talking about?

I dont see one mention of "entry" only mention of "progress" which are entirely different.

 

[ROWDY RACING]

Is this what youre talking about?

I dont see one mention of "entry" only mention of "progress" which are entirely different.

Yes that explains it all, enough said.

 

[krawlfreak]

I have been asked to deliver this statement concerning the recent debate, so
we should be able to move on with this topic for good"thumbsup"







From the Rules committee:

The rules are staying written as is and the answer to the "clarification" Erik needs concerning his video/interpretation as well as Nabil's theory, is:

If a tire enters a gate in the wrong direction with out previously entering in the right direction, it is an illegal move due to the fact that it violates the intention and wording of

1.10 - Progress bonus (-2 progress point): shall be awarded to drivers for each gate after it has been cleared during the attempt of a course. All gate penalties are assessed and given before a progress bonus is awarded. Progress is awarded when during the same attempt and in the intended course direction at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate. To receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty, all four tires must pass completely through the gate during the same attempt and in the intended course direction (See Illustration A). Progress points are deducted from the total course score. Once a driver has pointed out, no further Progress points will be awarded. (See 1.5 for examples of Gate penalties)



There does not need to be any further discussion on this topic. This rule is clearly worded and now you are clearly aware of the intention of said rule.

If there are specific holes with any individual rule, that you are offering a solution for, you are free to bring them to us for discussion, where we will assess what is being proposed and decide if it is pertinent.

thank you,
Rules Committee

 

[Erik D_lux]

Perfect. Thanks Rules committee!

 

[Erik D_lux]

From the Rules committee: If a tire enters a gate in the wrong direction with out previously entering in the right direction, it is an illegal move

To be clear, in the above situation, its 10 points and repo, right?

 

[krawlfreak]

To be clear, in the above situation, its 10 points and repo, right?

repo and 10.

just to be clear this makes your video and your interpretation, a repo and 10 point offense.

it also makes the situation nabil pointed out the same, repo and 10 points



the intention of the rule is that all tires have to go through the gate in the intended direction on the same attempt.

you cant split your attemps up to only get half of your progress, exit the gate and come back in to get the second half of your progress.

 

[TEDROCKZ]

Finally

Now...

 

[The Violator]

If there are specific holes with any individual rule, that you are offering a solution for, you are free to bring them to us for discussion, where we will assess what is being proposed and decide if it is pertinent.

thank you,
Rules Committee[/SIZE][/I]

So am I going to get any shit for the servo I installed in my Berg that pushes a rod and flips my car back over when it gets on its lid?:lmao:

 

[Nabil]

my whole scenario was just to play devils advocate for a second. I felt it was necessary to bring up based on how "entering a gate" was being used as the defining factor in an attempt for progress. I was well aware the scenario I provided did not comply with the intent of the rules, but it worked in clearing up the confusion

 

[JeremyH]

my whole scenario was just to play devils advocate for a second. I felt it was necessary to bring up based on how "entering a gate" was being used as the defining factor in an attempt for progress. I was well aware the scenario I provided did not comply with the intent of the rules, but it worked in clearing up the confusion

Yeah yeah, me too. :lol:

 

[Olle P]

As I wrote previously:

What bugs me here is that nowhere in the rules does it say that you can make multiple "attempts" on a gate.

The word attempt is always (exception: 6.5 Legal Rollover) used in conjunction with "of the course", so it applies to attempt per course, not per gate.
As I see it the "attempt" of a gate starts as soon as you leave the previous gate (or starting point) and ends when you clear the gate (or point out).

I have no objection about trying repeatedly to pass a gate during the (one) attempt, backing/sliding/rolling completely out/away from it and re-enter multiple times.
Just that each such try isn't a new "attempt" by the rules.

Both rules 1.10 and 1.12 clearly state in their first sentences that it's "... during the attempt of a course."

 

[HARDKNOCKZ]

I have been asked to deliver this statement concerning the recent debate, so
we should be able to move on with this topic for good"thumbsup"

From the Rules committee:

The rules are staying written as is and the answer to the "clarification" Erik needs concerning his video/interpretation as well as Nabil's theory, is:

If a tire enters a gate in the wrong direction with out previously entering in the right direction, it is an illegal move due to the fact that it violates the intention and wording of

1.10 - Progress bonus (-2 progress point): shall be awarded to drivers for each gate after it has been cleared during the attempt of a course. All gate penalties are assessed and given before a progress bonus is awarded. Progress is awarded when during the same attempt and in the intended course direction at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate. To receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty, all four tires must pass completely through the gate during the same attempt and in the intended course direction (See Illustration A). Progress points are deducted from the total course score. Once a driver has pointed out, no further Progress points will be awarded. (See 1.5 for examples of Gate penalties)



There does not need to be any further discussion on this topic. This rule is clearly worded and now you are clearly aware of the intention of said rule.

If there are specific holes with any individual rule, that you are offering a solution for, you are free to bring them to us for discussion, where we will assess what is being proposed and decide if it is pertinent.

thank you,
Rules Committee

As I wrote previously:I have no objection about trying repeatedly to pass a gate during the (one) attempt, backing/sliding/rolling completely out/away from it and re-enter multiple times.
Just that each such try isn't a new "attempt" by the rules.

Both rules 1.10 and 1.12 clearly state in their first sentences that it's "... during the attempt of a course."

See the yellow highlighted section in Jeremy's post above. Specifically this line: Progress is awarded when during the same attempt and in the intended course direction at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate.

Im failing to see your argument but more so...the REASON for it. Do you really need it to say "during the same attempt OF THAT GATE" for it to make sense?

Just as the post that Jeremy posted above from all of us on the rules committee states...if you see an issue with the rules & have a PROPOSED SOLUTION, by all means, bring it forward.

JD

 

[Olle P]

Im failing to see your argument but more so...the REASON for it. Do you really need it to say "during the same attempt OF THAT GATE" for it to make sense?

No, my argument is that if one "attempt" is the entire time from clearing one gate until clearing the next (which is the way I read it) then you can pretty much
- clear one front wheel (or both) through the gate,
- back up,
- drive both front wheels past on the outside of the gate,
- steer in and get one rear wheel through (in the intended direction).
Once the entire rig is past the gate line the gate will be cleared with a 10pt gate penalty (not all four wheels passing between the markers) and 1pt for backing up.
Right?

(The reason for such a manoeuvre could for example be to get a good line for the next gate.)

 

[Fishmaxx]

No, my argument is that if one "attempt" is the entire time from clearing one gate until clearing the next (which is the way I read it)

Thats not our intent in writing the rule. What wording would better define it for you?