Do you believe in God,Heaven or Hell?

[ROWDY RACING]

Goddamn

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Furthermore, logic dictates...

No. You are not practicing logic.

 

[DavidH]

Question: "What is predestination? Is predestination biblical?"

Answer: Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.

I have no hostility to religion to religion whatsoever. I am fortunate to live where it is never in my face, and the only opportunity I get to discuss it is here on the internet. Certainly less awkward than bringing it up with the in-laws.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

So you *are* throwing free will under the bus.

The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.

But to complete your analogy where the man hands out the money, you would need to add those not receiving money get burned alive (or whatever version of 'hell' you have invented) for eternity for reasons beyond their control.

The word "just" is typically defined as an action that is morally right and fair. You have not used it in that fashion.

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice

Correction - claims we have the choice...

If I tell you how you think, and I am wrong, am I still wrong?

—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

https://www.gotquestions.org/predestination.html

The bible contradicts itself. Film at eleven.

 

[DavidH]

Belief in God, the ability to acknowledge Him and to humbly seek Him IS ABSOLUTELY under one's conscious control; it is called "free will", and mankind was created with it, which is how Adam and Eve were able to choose disobedience to God (sin/rebellion) and how the world got so jacked up in the first place.

Again: can you, right now, choose to believe that gods are only characters in books, and then, say, later this week, choose to believe what you previously believed?

 

[DavidH]

...

Furthermore, logic dictates that neither the judge who hands down a sentence of condemnation on a criminal, nor the warden who holds said Prisoner captive is in any way, shape, or form "evil" but rather, just and right.

Logic and ethics tell us that it is unadvisable and unethical to allow a judge preside over a case involving their own interests. It is not 'just' or 'right' in the common vernacular.

I never looked at religion until I was almost 40, and when I did I found it funny that the religion(s) that the religious allude to for ethics and morality are both ethically and morally bankrupt.

Not that this is the primary reason that I find the concept of religions absurd, but it is fascinating to observe the evasion on the part of the religionist when this hypocrisy is pointed out.

 

[tjohanne]

If I could design my own god, I would have one that intervenes when children are abused, suffer in war and famine and sickness, and such things. That would be great! And he would heal people for free so that you don't need to pay for cancer treatment which anyway might not work, etc. And he would eradicate parasites and viruses. I would call this religion the God Who Cares.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[StomperCrawler]

Goddamn

Reluctantly, and only those who don't accept His free gift of salvation through Jesus.

"We all like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6).

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,*for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:9-13),

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.*Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:12-15),

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Reluctantly, and only those who don't accept His free gift of salvation through Jesus.

It's not free if it comes with conditions...

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

If I could design my own god, I would have one that intervenes when children are abused, suffer in war and famine and sickness, and such things. That would be great! And he would heal people for free so that you don't need to pay for cancer treatment which anyway might not work, etc. And he would eradicate parasites and viruses. I would call this religion the God Who Cares.

Suffering is part of being human. Gotta have at least some of it.

 

[DavidH]

If I could design my own god, I would have one that intervenes when children are abused, suffer in war and famine and sickness, and such things. That would be great! And he would heal people for free so that you don't need to pay for cancer treatment which anyway might not work, etc. And he would eradicate parasites and viruses. I would call this religion the God Who Cares.

in essence, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, this is what each religionist is doing, inventing their own god. They may have help from others (indoctrination), or pull from established religion (usually the one they grew up in or around).

And when the interventions fail to happen, and the wars and suffering continue, a vast and intricate rationale has to be devised to explain away why this loving, eternal, all-powerful "something" fails to live up to its hype.

"The lord works in mysterious ways"

"How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

"God works on his time, not ours"

...and so on.

 

[Rotare]

It’s kinda ironic that in an effort to demonstrate and substantiate the existence of ‘god’, people continue to quote the bible, who’s origin, accuracy and authenticity itself has forever been under question…..

Two pages back we were told the existence of god is overwhelming. Instead of posting quotes from the bible that intentionally read like riddles and are open for interpretation, how about we get some clear and specific examples of the overwhelming existence of god?

 

[Teng]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 12:13~14

 

[Rotare]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 12:13~14

Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[StomperCrawler]

Two pages back we were told the existence of god is overwhelming. Instead of posting quotes from the bible that intentionally read like riddles and are open for interpretation, how about we get some clear and specific examples of the overwhelming existence of god?

Sorry, I had thought it was clear: the evidence is Creation. Where else do you think it all came from? And please don't say "the big bang" because the only one of those that's actually plausible is the TV sitcom. LOLZ

I mean, seriously, to believe that something came from nothing without divine intervention? But hey, if anyone would like to go down that rabbit trail, we could, for arguments' sake, do so.

 

[DavidH]

Reluctantly, and only those who don't accept His free gift of salvation through Jesus.

In the manner that you have presented it here, it certainly looks like it would come at the cost of my intellectual integrity.

And how am I to discern the validity of this "gift" that you proffer? Does it go without saying that it is only your particular denomination of your particular relgion that has it right? How was that decided?

Or is your offer a complete sham, only intended to bring followers (and their money) into a religious money machine that produces virtually nothing but a means of perpetuating itself? You may not even be aware that you yourself have been wrong all this time.

Are you infallible?

 

[StomperCrawler]

It's not free if it comes with conditions...

Hmm, by that logic, everything that's "buy one get one free" doesn't exist. I think you might be missing something.

 

[Teng]

Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed

Friedrich Nietzsche

This is so true Brother

 

[DavidH]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 12:13~14

About those commandments; as a believer, if you were to commit murder, would that preclude you from entering heaven, as you understand the Christian religion?

 

[StomperCrawler]

If I could design my own god, I would have one that intervenes when children are abused, suffer in war and famine and sickness, and such things. That would be great! And he would heal people for free so that you don't need to pay for cancer treatment which anyway might not work, etc. And he would eradicate parasites and viruses. I would call this religion the God Who Cares.

He does care, alot as you will see, and when He created everything, it was literally and absolutely perfect: no suffering, no disease, no war. But He cares so much that He gave us free will, and from our poor choices evil entered in, the products of which are sin, war, disease, and death. But He has devised a way to rescue us from our own evil, and has promised to set things right again. He cares so much that He sent His one and only Son to a horrifically painful death on a cross. The caveat is that for those who don't choose to accept and follow His escape plan, there is only a path to destruction left for them, and unfortunately many follow it to its end and their own peril.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

Hmm, by that logic, everything that's "buy one get one free" doesn't exist. I think you might be missing something.

Buy one get one free is still conditional. You don't get one for free until you buy one.


If someone were giving something away for free, truly for free, nothing would be asked for in return.