SCX10 Honcho mods

[nersik]

SCX10 Honcho mods (Chevy Silverado)

I got this Honcho from e-bay.<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Here is original picture from posting as I received it.<o></o>
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It came with Holmes Hobbies BR-XL ESC and 35T Torque Master motor, Pro Line TSL Super Swampers on 1.9 Axial beadlock wheels. Shortened bed and narrowed front bumper.

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First of all I found 4 link truss with upper links and converted front. <o></o>
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I am going to lift it a little and put a new body. Either Pro Line 2007 Chevy Silverado (I like how it looks) or Traxxas Summit (like exo cage). Both have ~13” wheel base. So I will need to extend Honcho s base from 12.3” to 13-13.1”.<o></o>
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I started with new shocks. Ordered set from Wraith because I’ve read of some forums Wraith shocks are a good upgrade for SCX10. Plus they were <$18 delivered.<o></o>
After installation I gained height and binding issue in drive shafts.
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Here is the look of SCX10 Honcho with Wraith 100mm shocks

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I hope extension of links and axle tilt will help drive shaft binding.<o></o>
So let’s get to the main part of my today’s posting, SCX10 Honcho links and castor.<o></o>
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It is good to know stock SCX10 link length (12.3” wheel base, 4 link front and rear). So I measured it end to end (not hole to hole). Also I put it as summ of rod ends and link bar.
Stock SCX10 rod ends are 16mm.
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Front lower link 130 = 98 + 16*2<o></o>
Front upper link 122 = 90 + 16*2<o></o>
Rear lower link 138 = 106 + 16*2<o></o>
Rear upper link 130 = 98 + 16*2

Correct me if some one have genuine aluminum link kit.<o></o>
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Stock difference between lower and upper links is 8mm, which provides normal castor with axle drive shaft output parallel to the ground. If you make upper link longer then it should be you will tilt drive shaft output up. That is what I am going to do. On other forums people recommend making lower and upper link the same length. The only crime I see here is lowering of steering bar on front axle.<o></o>

I made some measurements and calculations to see how the upper link length will affect the tilt.
Following number are mm added to upper link length (0 - stock, 8 - same as lower link)

0 --> 0°<o></o>
1 --> 2°
2 --> 5°
3 --> 7°
4 --> 9°
5 --> 12°
6 --> 14°
7 --> 16°
8 --> 19°

To help you imagine this here are pictures with no tilt, 5°, 10° and 20°
Grey - front axle
Red - drive shaft output
Green circle - steering bar

0

5

10

20

And some pictures of my rig

Next 3 pictures are stock links

And now with equal length links (+8mm to upper link)

Note the steering bar goes down to the center of axle with 20°tilt on equal length links. Not so bad as I think.

Hope information will be helpful for others because I could not google a lot of those things.


Comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

[micro racer]

Thanks for the measurement difference in the links! I couldn't find the upper link lengths for the life of me!

 

[Meatwad]

Alot of this type of information is here on this site...

Making your own links helps your preference of axle clocking to ease driveshaft binding and to get your axle pinion up out of the rocks. A mixture of high steer knuckles + clockable c-hubs will help up front. The rear axle doesn't require as much attention.

 

[nersik]

I have a feeling that info is already here. But it did not come to me when I searched for it.

I don't agree the rear axle doesn't need attention. In my case I have more binding in rear. Probably because it goes lower due to less weight on the back.

high steer knuckles + clockable c-hubs

Never heard of that. Will do research on this topic.

 

[RMK]

deffinately look at clockable chubs. that is some serious positive caster up front. it will be really squirly and unstable at speed.... as for the rear.... i would get the length you need to get the wheelbase your looking for then adjust pinion angle. I run equal length arms in the rear. it gives an excellent driveshaft angle.

How much binding were you getting on the front axle before you lengthened the uppers?

 

[Meatwad]

I have a feeling that info is already here. But it did not come to me when I searched for it.

I don't agree the rear axle doesn't need attention. In my case I have more binding in rear. Probably because it goes lower due to less weight on the back.

Never heard of that. Will do research on this topic.

What I mean is after clocking the rear axle pinion up, it doesn't require the same attention any further unlike the front axle.

 

[nersik]

What about steering servo mount? Don't see much harm in angled servo position, just don't like how it looks.

It is hard for me to quantify binding. It is there or not.
For now I am running all stock plastic links and 90mm shocks. I did those mods as example and to post pics.

Going to order +10mm aluminum links from rc4wd extend wheel base and spacers to play around with upper links/castor. Will try to fit Wraith shock after that. As for today needed links are out of stock.

 

[05Fronty4x]

deffinately look at clockable chubs. that is some serious positive caster up front. it will be really squirly and unstable at speed....

I could be wrong, but I believe that is actually negative caster. I agree though, and it will cause a lot of tire scrub and sidewall roll-over at crawling speeds. Which chubs are clockable? I made some double bent front lowers that both increase clearance in the middle and protect the pinion at the end, but I'd really like to be able to get the pinion up more without destroying my steering performance.

 

[Meatwad]

http://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/ax30495.htm

That or the xr10 mod.

 

[Shinjari]

Is it possible that the current CHUBS are on the wrong side? That would cause funny caster like that too.

 

[05Fronty4x]

Axial Aluminum C Hub Carrier, Black (2)

That or the xr10 mod.

I thought about getting the Axial chubs, but I just can't bring myself to trust grub screws snugged into the plastic housing, and just how much can you clock the steering back up after clocking the axle forward? Do people actually drill the housing out for the grub screws?

Is it possible that the current CHUBS are on the wrong side? That would cause funny caster like that too.

I think he just has it clocked that far forward. Look at the angle of the servo.

 

[RMK]

I could be wrong, but I believe that is actually negative caster. I agree though, and it will cause a lot of tire scrub and sidewall roll-over at crawling speeds. Which chubs are clockable? I made some double bent front lowers that both increase clearance in the middle and protect the pinion at the end, but I'd really like to be able to get the pinion up more without destroying my steering performance.

yeah, i dont remember if its positive or negative... i just know they need to rotate back. For how much your needing to rotate you chubs.... I would get these.....
CreationFab - Delrin Tubes CreationFab Parts Stock Width Splined Tubes
here is a great how to article on them....
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axia...fab-premium-delrin-tubes-===.html#post3855289

they run the xr10/wraith chubs and xr10/wraith knuckles. They are splined so you can rotate them as far as you want.... plus, they are super strong!

 

[nersik]

While waiting for longer links I ordered Junfac skid plates to protect plastic axles from scratching. Especially front. Amazon delivered them in just 2 days.

And installed Wraith servo mount. It is smaller than SCX10 stock and does not interfere with 4-link truss.

 

[Perkolator]

personally, i'd ditch those axle skids you just bought. waste of $ IMO since they have way more cons than pros. scratching the stock plastic axles is ok - it will take A LONG TIME to wear through them...and when you do they are only $10. good luck

 

[nersik]

You made me upset((
I know they are not very useful and cause some trouble.
Like the look so much I did not think about performance and wasted $32.

 

[FlipItOver!]

Not a waste! You could save them and cut them up for bracketry when you decide to go custom shock position or bumper or something ; )

 

[nersik]

Custom links came. I put them with 21mm curved rod ends and 2mm spacers for upper links to clock axles.

front lower 140 = 98 + 2*21
front upper 136 = 90 + 2*2 + 2*21
rear lower 148 = 106 + 2*21
rear upper 146 = 98 + 2*3 + 2*21

New wheel base is exactly 13".
I was going to use 2 spacers per upper link, but there were total 10pc so I used 3 per link in rear.
According to calculations in 1st post I have ~10° tilt front axle and ~15° rear. In combination with extended wheel base it resolved drive shaft binding issue with Wraith 100mm shocks installed. After testing I still replaced Axial WB8s with RC4WD nylon punishers 104-150mm.

 

[nersik]

Axle skids take 6mm (!) from clearance. So I took them off. Thanks rcc for advice.

Did some rock crawling last weekend. Even on stock ripsaw wheels honcho performed better then I expected. Wraith shocks with 6 hole pistols do the job keeping tires on the ground. Not sure it will work so good at higher speeds. 35T motor 2S lipo and stock gearing will not allow fast runs anyway.

Meanwhile modifications goes on.
Picked 1mm steel sheet for $0.49 in Home Depot, no other options available(( Made lower battery mount instead of receiver box.

Had to drill holes in those small stands to bolt them in chassis.

Also inverted transmission. Going to move electronics and ESC back.

 

[nersik]

Some day I am going to upgrade steering to 8* C-hubs and high knuckles.
From <a href="http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-scx-10/426709-vanquish-stage-1-kit.html">thread about Vanquish Stage 1 kit</a> I picked easiest way to resolve problem with wheel rubbing high steer knuckle on SCX10 axle is bigger hex hubs. So I stopped by Hobby Town and got traxxas front wheel hex hubs (TRA3654) 12X5mm for $6.49.

Comparing to stock hubs

Before

After

Not much difference.
SCX10 knuckle and traxxas hex hub

Will see how it will work out with steering upgrade. For now I have 5-6mm wider wheel track and can not use wheel hubcaps to cover lug nuts.

 

[mtgrizzlymn]

Where are the skids from? Can't find them on amazon