Why the reverse ackermann?

[MikeKey]

Got my Honcho last spring and had a blast with it over the summer! Problem is while I was rebuilding it over the winter I noticed the reversed ackermann geometry on the front steering and it's really bugging me now!

So did Axial know this when they designed/released the kit? Or, did they just design the knuckles without knowing that mounting them "backwards" compared to "normal" would ruin the steering?

For anyone who doesn't know, ackermann is all about your front wheels following the right path when turning a corner to make sure they're working together, not against each other. Turn the wheels to the right and the inside wheel should turn more than the outside because they're following different turning circles. Reverse the angles (like the SCX10) and your tyres are fighting each other - the outside one trying to turn in more and the inside one less, so your steering and front end grip is reduced.

I know you can't really have correct ackermann with the stock steering setup because the wheels/tyres are in the way, but could they not at least have supplied zero ackermann knuckles?!

So what are my options? I know VP do the zero ackermann knuckles, but I'd have to go with BTA steering for the full effect. I can't find anything that fits the SCX10 though - the AX10 BTA doesn't fit, and everyone else seems to have done something custom...

Any suggestions?

Mike

[towjockeyrc10]

i run mine with a little toe-out. it kinda helps a little when side hilling.

[landcruiser78]

k well if i think i know what your talking about it seems as tho u have put the main steering link on the inside holes! if u notice there are two different holes and if u put the link on the inside holes that makes the steering go out a wack! i learned this from when i first got the scx10 i wanted the steering to turn sharper so i put the link on the inside but it made one wheel to turn sharper then the other! i hope this is what your asking! lol

[MikeKey]

Loving the toe out idea! Not sure why it never crossed my mind or show up in my research, guess I wasn't looking for the right thing I use it all the time on my on road RCs too!

I still can't figure out why they didn't supply the kit as stock with zero ackermann knuckles though. If VP and others can make them, why couldn't Axial have done it from the start? Maybe it was a cost cut so they could just use a straight alu tie rod in the kit? They'd have needed something with bends in it to clear the pumpkin otherwise, or be stuck with a shaped plastic tie rod like the one on the Wraith...

Oh well!

[MikeKey]

Originally Posted by landcruiser78

k well if i think i know what your talking about it seems as tho u have put the main steering link on the inside holes! if u notice there are two different holes and if u put the link on the inside holes that makes the steering go out a wack! i learned this from when i first got the scx10 i wanted the steering to turn sharper so i put the link on the inside but it made one wheel to turn sharper then the other! i hope this is what your asking! lol

Definitely on the outer holes. Not enough tie rod clearance and even more ackermann using the inner holes, so not even sure why they're there really! Thanks for the suggestion though

[landcruiser78]

glad to help!

[towjockeyrc10]

I have asked the very same question about why at least not 0 deg. ackerman myself. The next big question I had was why did they put the tie rod in front of the axle at all. I have about ten smashed tie rods in my collection so far. if you research the og bruiser the tie rod was behind the axle and protected. I run high clearance knuckles with the ZERO dollar cms mod. still running the Y-link up front. with the hi knuckles I have almost no bump steer and i was able to put the tie rod basically backwards above the axle with some toe out . it works good for me. the zero ackerman knuckles I have heard have a lot of clearance issues. i am running the early version rc4wd 1.55 wheels though.

[Zeus.:God]

Originally Posted by towjockeyrc10

I have asked the very same question about why at least not 0 deg. ackerman myself. The next big question I had was why did they put the tie rod in front of the axle at all. I have about ten smashed tie rods in my collection so far. if you research the og bruiser the tie rod was behind the axle and protected. I run high clearance knuckles with the ZERO dollar cms mod. still running the Y-link up front. with the hi knuckles I have almost no bump steer and i was able to put the tie rod basically backwards above the axle with some toe out . it works good for me. the zero ackerman knuckles I have heard have a lot of clearance issues. i am running the early version rc4wd 1.55 wheels though.

That's an easy answer. The truck is supposed to be scale... Combined with that, its far easier to put it up front than it is to design a link or locate the control arms in such a way that they won't interfere with each other during suspension travel.

[towjockeyrc10]

ok sure but the axle was originally made for the ax10 not scale at all. axial was lazy then and it was just cheaper to continue their mistake on the scx10.

[RksPlz]

Originally Posted by Zeus.:God

That's an easy answer. The truck is supposed to be scale... Combined with that, its far easier to put it up front than it is to design a link or locate the control arms in such a way that they won't interfere with each other during suspension travel.

I agree. I converted my axial comp rig to an scx-10 Blazer. And I think the purpose of scale is to be more limited to what can do with your rig. Axials axles aren't that bad. But whatever you choose your wheelin at the end of the day

[gingerkid]

my scx is doing the same thing and its pissing me the **** off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[05Fronty4x]

I haven't noticed that mine has negative ackerman yet, but now it's on the top of my list of things to look in to.

Something that has me puzzled (haven't done research yet) is that wouldn't any ackerman besides 0 degrees basically be the same thing as having uneven toe, and if that's the case, wouldn't you have positive ackerman turning one way, but negative the other? How can you maintain positive ackerman turning both directions without adding more pieces to the "puzzle"?

I need to draw a diagram, or better yet a triagram. Lol

[diesel kawboy]

As long as it steers, I just remember I'm playing with a toy truck and RUN IT!!!

[monkeymagic9]

Just run a little toe out... doesn't affect straightline but it greatly improves the inside tire's turn-in

[Propane]

I only run axial Highsteer knuckles. Make my own links to length, run just a little toe out and have never had any problems. Every rig I have is set ip this way and they perform with the best of them. If you want slightly better turning throw some overdrive gears up front! Don't blame Axial, get creative and solve the problems. That's what this hobby is all about.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Propane

I only run axial Highsteer knuckles. Make my own links to length, run just a little toe out and have never had any problems. Every rig I have is set ip this way and they perform with the best of them. If you want slightly better turning throw some overdrive gears up front! Don't blame Axial, get creative and solve the problems. That's what this hobby is all about.

Little bit of toe out does wonders and mine still tracks straight! The Axial High Steer knuckles are very nice, got some too.