Poor mans panhard !!

[08yfz45031]

In the first pic you can see how I bolted the servo plate fast through the frame and shock hoop.mounts pretty flush.

Here is a little better view for you

Front side, I made my drop bracket out of galvanized sheet metal works great and doesnt flex that much. just enough on roll overs so it don't get bent to hell

Mounted my pan hard to the pumpkin works alittle nicer then all the way across and doesn't bind at all

Hope this helps a few people on a budget!

[West Cork Basher]

This is a great How To ,
( you should add it to the SCX Tips and Tricks Thread )
I was just asking another member how he mounted his servo this way...


Why do they call it Panhard ?





Sean

[rebel35747]

i see that your shock hoops look leaned back toward the transmission, did you flip sides(right hoop on left side frame, left hoop on right side frame) with them to get it that way?

[West Cork Basher]

Originally Posted by rebel35747

i see that your shock hoops look leaned back toward the transmission, did you flip sides(right hoop on left side frame, left hoop on right side frame) with them to get it that way?

I didn't notice that ...Well spotted ...

.

[rebel35747]

just noticed because it gave me an idea on how to lower a brat body on a build i'm doing. lol 1st build i'm posting on here.
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial...ss-so-far.html

[08yfz45031]

Yea i just flopped them thats all, and I when I get a little free time I will, its free and looks just as good!

[ScaleFreak93]

The panhard won't work correctly as the suspension cycles. The panhard should be at or near the same angle of the drag link. If you can get it closer to the correct angle I'm sure you will notice a huge improvement. You just have such a ridiculous amount of drop on it. And the bracket shouldn't flex either. You want it to stay rigid otherwise it will affect the geometry as well.

[ultimate_monkey]

id also like to point out there there is no need for a panhard bar on a 4 link, or triangulated 3link, and chances are useing it in a dule triangulated 4 link its probably just goin to bind and do no actual good

[08yfz45031]

Originally Posted by ScaleFreak93

The panhard won't work correctly as the suspension cycles. The panhard should be at or near the same angle of the drag link. If you can get it closer to the correct angle I'm sure you will notice a huge improvement. You just have such a ridiculous amount of drop on it. And the bracket shouldn't flex either. You want it to stay rigid otherwise it will affect the geometry as well.

extremely wrong, it cycles fine, you gotta remember this is an rc. not full scale where its picky and will bind there's a reason why I ended up where I did with this. when i ran it all the way over it would bind when the pumpkin came around, I agree with the rigid thing but I dont feel like replacing it when it snaps or another part does, id rather bend it back

Originally Posted by ultimate_monkey

id also like to point out there there is no need for a panhard bar on a 4 link, or triangulated 3link, and chances are useing it in a dule triangulated 4 link its probably just goin to bind and do no actual good

once again this is an rc, I agree but you know what I had a 4 linked jeep xj. and it was streetable and did awesome out the mtn. but you better believe I was running a trac bar. otherwise I touched each burm and the house next to it

[ScaleFreak93]

You may feel that it cycles fine but the concept is the same fullsize and rc, if you ever drive an rc that has a properly set-up panhard then you'll notice a difference. And why would you run a panhard bar on a jeep that's 4 linked? It's pointless. And what are you doing that you'll snap steel or a chunk of alluminum etc? I drive hard but I haven't managed that one. And I've been doing both fullsize and rc for quite a while and I am still learning, hell I'll never stop. So before you go saying that we're both "completely wrong" Think it through. I'm not meaning to sound disrespectful and wasn't before either. What you said came across that way.

[street.terror]

Originally Posted by ScaleFreak93

why would you run a panhard bar on a jeep that's 4 linked? It's pointless.

This I would like more info on.

I just put my T-rex 60's into my scx-10, it is 4 linked in the front. when i try to turn the truck it pushes the frame around?!

[08yfz45031]

well if you ever had a actual true 4 link on a real vehicle you would realize without a track bar it pushes the body instead of the tires unless your using a hydraulic ram on the axle, it was also a dd. so I cant be turning my wheel and the only response was a frame twist. that whole trac bar needs to be inline is true but the cycling thing isnt. we've had rigs with "correct"bars and it would hit, sometimes depending on what your flex and angles it will not match your steering arm..

[sloppy]

Originally Posted by street.terror

This I would like more info on.

I just put my T-rex 60's into my scx-10, it is 4 linked in the front. when i try to turn the truck it pushes the frame around?!

I will guess without seeing the setup, that's from poor triangulation on the links..

[shooter125]

Originally Posted by 08yfz45031

well if you ever had a actual true 4 link on a real vehicle you would realize without a track bar it pushes the body instead of the tires unless your using a hydraulic ram on the axle, it was also a dd. so I cant be turning my wheel and the only response was a frame twist. that whole trac bar needs to be inline is true but the cycling thing isnt. we've had rigs with "correct"bars and it would hit, sometimes depending on what your flex and angles it will not match your steering arm..

first off im sure your "4 link" in your 1:1 isnt a true 4 link. probly has like the rusty long arm kit with the upper links actually attached to the lower links, so yes in that case a panhard is needed. A panhard is not needed with a properly set up 4 link. and same does go with RC

[dstrbd1]

Originally Posted by 08yfz45031

extremely wrong, it cycles fine, you gotta remember this is an rc. not full scale where its picky and will bind there's a reason why I ended up where I did with this. when i ran it all the way over it would bind when the pumpkin came around, I agree with the rigid thing but I dont feel like replacing it when it snaps or another part does, id rather bend it back

Also I recommend extending the panhard out a bit. The closer it can match the drag link length the better. Maybe try fabbing a simple mount to the 2 holes above the link mounts on the housing. Still simple just better geometry.

Originally Posted by 08yfz45031

once again this is an rc, I agree but you know what I had a 4 linked jeep xj. and it was streetable and did awesome out the mtn. but you better believe I was running a trac bar. otherwise I touched each burm and the house next to it

Originally Posted by 08yfz45031

well if you ever had a actual true 4 link on a real vehicle you would realize without a track bar it pushes the body instead of the tires unless your using a hydraulic ram on the axle, it was also a dd. so I cant be turning my wheel and the only response was a frame twist. that whole trac bar needs to be inline is true but the cycling thing isnt. we've had rigs with "correct"bars and it would hit, sometimes depending on what your flex and angles it will not match your steering arm..

This is because the jeep 4 link is poorly designed and has a lack of triangulation. On the jeep 3 of the 4 links are pretty much parallel. It is the triangulation that keeps the axle centered under the vehicle while steering. A properly triangulated 4 link will not require a panhard.

[ScaleFreak93]

Originally Posted by 08yfz45031

well if you ever had a actual true 4 link on a real vehicle you would realize without a track bar it pushes the body instead of the tires unless your using a hydraulic ram on the axle, it was also a dd. so I cant be turning my wheel and the only response was a frame twist. that whole trac bar needs to be inline is true but the cycling thing isnt. we've had rigs with "correct"bars and it would hit, sometimes depending on what your flex and angles it will not match your steering arm..

First off, you've never seen my fullsize crawler. It is "true" 4 linked front and rear with 60's front and rear, 4 wheel steer on 49" iroks. Don't rell me what I do and don't know. I don't know your age but I've proabaly been turning wrenches before you even knew how to use one! And yes I have full hydro rear steer and a steering box that has been drilled, tapped and had hydro lines run into it so it's a hydro front as well. I've built, and wheeled more fullsize vehicles than you could ever dream of wheeling, and with a 4 link regardless of steering type you don't need a panhard.

[kaneohecrawler]

Originally Posted by ScaleFreak93

and with a 4 link regardless of steering type you don't need a panhard.

Actually this is incorrect. but i absolutly agree with how rediculious the OP theories are on how his setup is and why


MY .02
With a triangulated 4 link you can't run a panhard or trac bar cause it will bind the link geometry as the panhard is trying to push/pull on the axle side to side and the tri 4link wants it to be centered. With a tri 4link If the using a steering box on the chassis you'll get bump steer out the a$$ unless suspension travel is minimal.

If you run a 4 link in which all the links run parallel then a panhard/trac bar is required to keep the axle from swinging side to side. And at the same time eliminating that "chassis push" everyone is speeking of. But at the same time might as well get rid of 1 upper link and just go with 3.(but this is where a panhard with a 4link could be used)

The reason you get chassis push with a 4link is b/c the links are all mounted at the skid or near it, then you have 5 feet of chassis where the steering box is located. and depending on how long ur links are and durability/strength of ur chassis itself will depend on how much the chassis will want to "push" (b/c of the lenght of chassis between where the steering box is and where the "axle" is mounted to said chassis.

Now at the same time with axle mounted hydro this is not an issue. Nor is bump steer which is why we run the panhard/trac bar setup in the first place.

And with a 3link w/ panahrd it is 100% critical to have your panhard and drag link running same lenght and parallel to one another. This doesent mean the panhard has to be "straight" it can bend to contour the pumpkin as long as the end points on both ends of both bars match

end rant


my pnahard setup for less than 15$ done the correct way. made easy only have to make 2 brackets


left bump full right


left bump full left


right bump full left


right bump full right


right bump steering centered


full bump


full extend


take notice that absolutely NOTHING touches ANYWHERE in the susp cycle.


heres how to the right way. and it doesnt look hideous like the OP's (yes i said it)
axle bracket(always the same)



chassis bracket(this will change depending on servo location just modify to suit your build)

[808DA6]

I'd like a nice vid from the OP that shows the rig during full suspension travel. Looks like the axle will shift laterally unless the shock travel is short. Vid will put an end to the argument.

[kaneohecrawler]

Originally Posted by 808DA6

I'd like a nice vid from the OP that shows the rig during full suspension travel. Looks like the axle will shift laterally unless the shock travel is short. Vid will put an end to the argument.

yes that would be good brian.and probly quite entertaining.
but it would end up moving laterally in a bad way.
a panhard is designed for the axle to move to the side but only enough so that the panhard and draglink travel on the same arc. which is what eleiminates bumpsteer.

but im not argueing wit him i was stating facts. lol

[808DA6]

I'm more looking to squash the "u did it wrong/i did it right" thats going on. I've used your design to make mine. Finished tonight actually. I've also studied 1:1 and RC builds to get length and angel tips. My panhard mounts from directly behind the ball end on my servo mount down to nearly directly behind the ball end on my knuckle. Axle doesn't shift at all!