Shock Advice?

[TuffNStuff]

I had to move my shocks to a different spot and wanted to know if anyone had any input at the angle I put them?

I have to have my shocks below the chassis for a project I am working on. Is there any mods out there that can put the shocks level or below the frame so you have a flat chassis to work off?

Here are some shots of where they are mounted now:

[Lukescb7]

You could tilt them inward to the centerline of the chassis. It would give a more scale look than them leaning forward.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by Lukescb7

You could tilt them inward to the centerline of the chassis. It would give a more scale look than them leaning forward.

Is there a way to do that with a product that is on the market or is there a thread anywhere where someone has done that?

[TSK]

Gear Head RC has a rear shock relocation kit. Shocks mount at the axle at the lockout area and tilt inward towards the center of the chassis cross member.

http://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/geasus003.htm

Los, by the looks of some pictures I've seen, it seems that Dinky RC is proto testing a cantilever system that will keep the suspension components below the frame line.

[rockrigcustoms]

its free with most scrap parts to tilt them in between frame rails using a cut up shock hoop. but damn that cantilever setup is sick!

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by TheSCorpionKing

Los, by the looks of some pictures I've seen, it seems that Dinky RC is proto testing a cantilever system that will keep the suspension components below the frame line.

Nice!

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by rockrigcustoms

its free with most scrap parts to tilt them in between frame rails using a cut up shock hoop. but damn that cantilever setup is sick!

Is there any threads on this? I would be interested in looking at them but when I was searching the forum I didn't find a thing.

[TuffNStuff]

BTW the reason I want to do this is because of an idea I got from another thread.

I want to make this for the SCX10 platform.

I started a thread on it here: Honcho Utility Conversion - Feeler Thread

If you guys have any input on the idea let me know.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by TheSCorpionKing

Gear Head RC has a rear shock relocation kit. Shocks mount at the axle at the lockout area and tilt inward towards the center of the chassis cross member.

Gear Head SCX10 Rear Shock Relocation Kit

Los, by the looks of some pictures I've seen, it seems that Dinky RC is proto testing a cantilever system that will keep the suspension components below the frame line.

That was the EXACT picture I was remembering! Right on the money man!

BUT... The one in the picture looks like a different setup. It looks like something you would see on a Traxxas Revo.

That isn't that scale but I would be interested to see how well something like that works. But, then again, I am not really going for a pure scale look either.

I wonder how good the flex is being that the shock is shorter?

[Espeefan]

That cantilever shock set-up is slick! Looks like parts straight off the mini Revo and Slash. Not all that hard to actually fab up. Hmm....it's giving me ideas already. I'm sure it's got plenty of travel. The travel is all about the cantilever length, and the ratio of travel, in an arc, vs. the shock compression. Way back in the way the very first rock crawlers built from monster trucks often used cantilevered shocks to increase articulation all the way up to 90 degrees. Back then 90 degrees of articulation was impressive, but it would take a few years more for builders to release it wasn't that useful, performance-wise, nor critical to have that much.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by Espeefan

That cantilever shock set-up is slick! Looks like parts straight off the mini Revo and Slash. Not all that hard to actually fab up. Hmm....it's giving me ideas already. I'm sure it's got plenty of travel. The travel is all about the cantilever length, and the ratio of travel, in an arc, vs. the shock compression. Way back in the way the very first rock crawlers built from monster trucks often used cantilevered shocks to increase articulation all the way up to 90 degrees. Back then 90 degrees of articulation was impressive, but it would take a few years more for builders to release it wasn't that useful, performance-wise, nor critical to have that much.

I think if I have some down time today I will take the time to draw something up. I need to get my head wrapped around the benefits of setting up a suspension like this. I have a Revo and took look at it but it doesn't seem like the same deal.

Yeah the shocks are the same but because it is IFS and the stance is a lot wider than the chassis I think it would be just s little different. I think it would be awesome to fab something up like this. I wonder if other people out there use this?

[Espeefan]

It is a little different, but in reality, the benefit and function of a cantilevered suspension is the same. The pushrods going to the cantilevers can be as long, or as short as they need to be, and it doesn't matter if they are pushed by an A-arm, or by a straight axle. The suspension will still work the same way. Lots of travel with a shorter shock stroke. How much travel you get will depend on how long the cantilever arm is, the placement of the pivot points (of the cantilever itself, of the shock, and of the pushrod), which changes the pushrod to shock travel ratio, and finally how long your shocks are.

I found some old pictures of my second rock crawler, from way back in the day. Like I mentioned before, many of us built our trucks to get maximum articulation. We had way more then we could use, but back in those days we didn't realize you didn't need that much for a good crawler.





Just look at the pics.....servo in the way of the front axle approach angle, Kyosho Magentic Mayhem motors, high ride height, and Juggernaut tires. That's how it was done before the RTR crawlers existed.

[eric113]

Proline scx10 shocks front and 3racing mini lst shocks rear

[TuffNStuff]

I have a project that I am working on (You can see it here: Honcho Utility Conversion) and I had to move my shocks.



Anyways... On that thread I was asking about shocks and shock angles and brough up the fact that for this particul project the rear end of my chassis is going to need ot be flat.

TheSCorpionKing suggested I use this kit: Gear Head SCX10 Rear Shock Relocation Kit. Which I will be using.


BUT! I am going to flip that bracket upside down, thus giving me less room for taller shocks.


So, this is what I planned on doing. Two Junfac Gmade XD Piggyback Shock 85mm on the back and two Junfac Gmade XD Piggyback Shock 93mm (2) on the front.


Will this work? I don't know how to determine if the rig will ride level?

I want as much travel as I can get but I also want the rig to sit level. My though was... If the shocks were a little too long I could move the cross member either forward or back to compensate and just drill new holes if I had to. I may even be able to pull of a more forward tilt to the shocks. But is that a good thing or is it best to be as straight up and down as possible? Initially it doesn't seem so but I just want to hear someones thoughts on that.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by eric113

Proline scx10 shocks front and 3racing mini lst shocks rear

That is spot on! See that flat chassis on the back? That is exactly what I want. But isn't it risky to run your rig with a tall ride heght because of "top heavyness" and throwing your COG off? Or does it matter? I guess shock tuning would really come into play at that point right? Which I have not taken the time to learn yet.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by Espeefan

It is a little different, but in reality, the benefit and function of a cantilevered suspension is the same. The pushrods going to the cantilevers can be as long, or as short as they need to be, and it doesn't matter if they are pushed by an A-arm, or by a straight axle. The suspension will still work the same way. Lots of travel with a shorter shock stroke. How much travel you get will depend on how long the cantilever arm is, the placement of the pivot points (of the cantilever itself, of the shock, and of the pushrod), which changes the pushrod to shock travel ratio, and finally how long your shocks are.

I found some old pictures of my second rock crawler, from way back in the day. Like I mentioned before, many of us built our trucks to get maximum articulation. We had way more then we could use, but back in those days we didn't realize you didn't need that much for a good crawler.





Just look at the pics.....servo in the way of the front axle approach angle, Kyosho Magentic Mayhem motors, high ride height, and Juggernaut tires. That's how it was done before the RTR crawlers existed.

Is there a way to get an idea for cantilever length and pivot points to get the most out of your articulation? Or is it just a trial and error deal? I can't imagine it would be especially if you are moving pivot points being that this would most likely invovle putting holes in the chassis. But then again that is why I am asking.

[Espeefan]

Originally Posted by TuffNStuff

Is there a way to get an idea for cantilever length and pivot points to get the most out of your articulation? Or is it just a trial and error deal? I can't imagine it would be especially if you are moving pivot points being that this would most likely invovle putting holes in the chassis. But then again that is why I am asking.

No trial and error necessary. A full sized drawing of your proposed cantilever, with three points marked on a piece of paper will show you what you can expect for travel.

The main pivot point, on which the cantilever will swing from, is a central point that remains constant. Mark that on paper and swing two arcs with a compass from that point. One arc will represent the travel radius of the pushrod, which goes to your axle, and the other arc will represent the travel radius of the shock.

Knowing how long the stroke of your shock is will determine how far along the travel radius the pushrod will move up and down.

From the central 'proposed' cantilever pivot point, a push rod mounting hole further away from the pivot point and a shock mounting hole closer to the center pivot will result in multiplication of axle travel. Play with the mounting hole locations for each, to come up with the amount of travel you want. Do all this on paper, full scale, and you take the trial and error factor out of it.

[Meatwad]

I've done the mini lst rear shocks for drop beds and can't complain, eric113 is also where I got the idea from. A bare chassis like that will naturally sit high, till you add the drop bed and scale stuff. It'll squat a bit after the goodies.

[TuffNStuff]

Originally Posted by TuffNStuff

BTW the reason I want to do this is because of an idea I got from another thread.

I want to make this for the SCX10 platform.

I started a thread on it here: Honcho Utility Conversion - Feeler Thread

If you guys have any input on the idea let me know.

This is the whole reason I am doing this... I am going to be getting all the materials I need to do this and a new body tonight and want to hammer out all the little details before I order.

[6sharky9]

Originally Posted by eric113

Proline scx10 shocks front and 3racing mini lst shocks rear

So how much rear travel do you have in the back compared to the front???..I see about 1/4 inch of travel and articulation on the rear if that.

How is this improving anything for you???..Just curious.