Poor drag brake with a Titan 21T

[setecastronomy]

In the past I started other discussions in an attempt to understand better the subject of drag brake.

In my 3 Kg Wraith I have a re brander Titan 21T equivalent motor. The gear ratio is 12/54, I have a decent torque but the speed is not sufficient for jumping. My esc is an old Mamba Max and I set the drag brake to 'Crawler full' or something like that, the highest possible.
Despite this anytime the Wraith is in a slope and I release the throttle it slowly moves due to gravity force.
I made some comparisons with the esc plugged and unplugged, so I could verify that the drag brake makes some difference. Anyway it is not sufficient and I don't believe I can have a greater one with a different esc, so the only solution is to replace the motor with something else.

I read lots of people are using Titan 21T successfully with gear ratios which are similar to my one, so I cannot understand why they don't complain about the poor drag brake. May be it depends on the different use I made of my Wraith, going slow on very rough terrain.

I'm mumbling about buying a Tekin Roc 412 or HH revolver 540, but that way I need a new esc too because they both are sensored motors. It would be an investment of more than 250$ and then I would have to reinforce all the transmission, so I don't know if it is worth.

Thanks
Filippo

[o0wiz0o]

You need to try a better motor and retest. Doesn't have to be a 21t just something to eliminate the motor in question. People probably don't complain as I imagine those running 21t Titans are not that bothered about crawling. They will be into more speed type applications. I think a quality motor will solve your issue.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by o0wiz0o

You need to try a better motor and retest. Doesn't have to be a 21t just something to eliminate the motor in question. People probably don't complain as I imagine those running 21t Titans are not that bothered about crawling. They will be into more speed type applications. I think a quality motor will solve your issue.

It's a 550 sized motor, so 21 turns is roughly a 35 turn 540 motor. They work great on crawlers.

A friend has one in his ax10, drag brake seems to work just fine.

[o0wiz0o]

I thought they were a 540 in a big can due to the crappy fan and steel belt? I know they are poor IMO. I have and run a fair few Traxxas vehicles and some that came with these stock.

[EeePee]

Well, on Traxxas' website they say the Titan "has a 30% longer armature than a standard 540 size motor". A 540 arm and 550 arm are the same diameter. The added torque comes from the length.

The condition of the motor plays a large part in how well the dragbrake works. Maybe the motor is done. Any Traxxas motor I've used doesn't last very long.

[sdmf]

Try buying a cheap sealed can axial, hpi, traxxas. And test it out, most can be had under 20$

[o0wiz0o]

I stand corrected then sir. Not really had much luck with Traxxas Brushed motors myself. Although the 775 motor was a beast in the Summit and E-Maxx.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by setecastronomy

In the past I started other discussions in an attempt to understand better the subject of drag brake.

In my 3 Kg Wraith I have a re brander Titan 21T equivalent motor. The gear ratio is 12/54, I have a decent torque but the speed is not sufficient for jumping. My esc is an old Mamba Max and I set the drag brake to 'Crawler full' or something like that, the highest possible.
Despite this anytime the Wraith is in a slope and I release the throttle it slowly moves due to gravity force.
I made some comparisons with the esc plugged and unplugged, so I could verify that the drag brake makes some difference. Anyway it is not sufficient and I don't believe I can have a greater one with a different esc, so the only solution is to replace the motor with something else.

I read lots of people are using Titan 21T successfully with gear ratios which are similar to my one, so I cannot understand why they don't complain about the poor drag brake. May be it depends on the different use I made of my Wraith, going slow on very rough terrain.

I'm mumbling about buying a Tekin Roc 412 or HH revolver 540, but that way I need a new esc too because they both are sensored motors. It would be an investment of more than 250$ and then I would have to reinforce all the transmission, so I don't know if it is worth.

Thanks
Filippo

It's a similar motor, not a Traxxas brand and that means it's not necessarily exactly the same motor. I've used a couple Traxxas 21T and they have done well in my Wraith on 3s. It works well in my Honcho too, but tends to get kinda hot because it's more slow speed crawling than my Wraith which is more about throttle.

Originally Posted by maslin

It's a 550 sized motor, so 21 turns is roughly a 35 turn 540 motor. They work great on crawlers.

A friend has one in his ax10, drag brake seems to work just fine.

x2

Originally Posted by sdmf

Try buying a cheap sealed can axial, hpi, traxxas. And test it out, most can be had under 20$

Don't waste your money, not even $5 on sealed can Axial crawler 540 motor, buy Holmes HObbies Torquemaster or Crawlmaster 35T or 45T ...way better motor and not that much more money, but they will also last much longer.

[setecastronomy]

Originally Posted by EeePee

...
The condition of the motor plays a large part in how well the dragbrake works. Maybe the motor is done. Any Traxxas motor I've used doesn't last very long.

I could see smoke coming out of the motor twice, but when I ask for power it can still deliver it. Don't know how much drag brake I can expect from a 550 motor. At home I have an Integy 55T and a HH sensorless outrunner and I can assure you have to put much more torque in order to have them spin. On the contrary they are very slow so it seems to be a matter of compromise.
May be I can achieve both goals (speed and drag brake) with a high level sensored brushless motor but I'm not ready for that investment now.

@Natedog
What about the drag brake with the Titan ? We are geared almost the same, what happens when you release the throttle on a slope ? Can you easily turn the wheels with your hand ?

Bye
Filippo

[StomperCrawler]

Originally Posted by setecastronomy

May be I can achieve both goals (speed and drag brake) with a high level sensored brushless motor but I'm not ready for that investment now.

Not sure what your budget is, but the sensored 17.5t brushless setup via the link in my sig (with waterproof drag-brake esc) runs $33 motor + $50 esc =$88, which is at least $100 less than what most people are using. On the other hand, some folks say staying brushed is best so go figure. ;)

[sdmf]

Originally Posted by StomperCrawler

Not sure what your budget is, but the sensored 17.5t brushless setup via the link in my sig (with waterproof drag-brake esc) runs $33 motor + $50 esc =$88, which is at least $100 less than what most people are using. On the other hand, some folks say staying brushed is best so go figure. ;)

The only reason I,personally stay brushed, is due to the off the shelf availability at my lhs. I have brushless in all my go fast stuff, but the simplicity and availability keep me brushed.

And they don't mind mud/snow/water as much.