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Old 05-28-2018, 10:17 PM   #1
Quarry Creeper
 
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Default Pinion mods

Hi all.
So I completed my kit last week and it has been going fine on 3s with 3 bearings in the rear with no shims (yes bad.. none came in kit but they will arrive tomorrow) and normal as per instruction 2 bearing and spacer in the front.

Now I just upgraded my front bulkhead to the GPM and testing with the stock spacer and 2 hearings it binds up shockingly (as we know) to the point where I can't turn it by hand.

So from my understanding the below diagram is how the 3 installs work.



Stock:
So this works with bearing spacer bearing and 2 shims for 6s (according to manual)

BHB:
Grind down the tabs, use 3 bearings and X number of spacers to pack between the first bearing (held by 3 screws) and the C clip. This brings the pinion away from the spur by a few .** of a mm creating a better mesh.

Standard 3 bearing mod:
Install bearing, about .6mm of shims then 2 more bearings. This leaves a gab between the first bearing and the 3 holding screws so the pinion is a little further away from the spur.

Now... While I understand how the 2 mods work, what is stopping the "3 bearing mod" from sliding forward slightly causing a huge bind?

I am not trying to debate what works/doesn't work I just want to only 1 mod and not spend the $80 (that's how much the gears cost in Australia) if something fails.

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Last edited by Spunkybob; 05-28-2018 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pinion mods

when torque is applied to the driveline, there will be a force repelling the pinion and bevel gear away from each other. In your picture, the pinion will try to slide downward, and never upward, when you are either braking or accelerating.

I kept using 3 bearings in my XL and it holds well. But I used castle ESC and tuned the torque down. In my opinion, 6S with a monster ESC plus castle 1515 will destroy any bevel/pinion gear if you are not careful with the throttle.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdiabc View Post
when torque is applied to the driveline, there will be a force repelling the pinion and bevel gear away from each other. In your picture, the pinion will try to slide downward, and never upward, when you are either braking or accelerating.

I kept using 3 bearings in my XL and it holds well. But I used castle ESC and tuned the torque down. In my opinion, 6S with a monster ESC plus castle 1515 will destroy any bevel/pinion gear if you are not careful with the throttle.
Yes this is what I was thinking.. but if your jumping and land nose first won't the pinion slide forward too far? I suppose not because even if it does move a little it can never move further then what was designed by axial while not perfect won't implode.

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Old 06-04-2018, 12:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunkybob View Post
Hi all.
So I completed my kit last week and it has been going fine on 3s with 3 bearings in the rear with no shims (yes bad.. none came in kit but they will arrive tomorrow) and normal as per instruction 2 bearing and spacer in the front.

Now I just upgraded my front bulkhead to the GPM and testing with the stock spacer and 2 hearings it binds up shockingly (as we know) to the point where I can't turn it by hand.

So from my understanding the below diagram is how the 3 installs work.



Stock:
So this works with bearing spacer bearing and 2 shims for 6s (according to manual)

BHB:
Grind down the tabs, use 3 bearings and X number of spacers to pack between the first bearing (held by 3 screws) and the C clip. This brings the pinion away from the spur by a few .** of a mm creating a better mesh.

Standard 3 bearing mod:
Install bearing, about .6mm of shims then 2 more bearings. This leaves a gab between the first bearing and the 3 holding screws so the pinion is a little further away from the spur.

Now... While I understand how the 2 mods work, what is stopping the "3 bearing mod" from sliding forward slightly causing a huge bind?

I am not trying to debate what works/doesn't work I just want to only 1 mod and not spend the $80 (that's how much the gears cost in Australia) if something fails.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
On my build video during the pinion assembly I explained how this is an important factor. The only amount of shims that are needed or the amount of shims that measure up to the amount of depth in the rear axle housing the additional shims are inserted on the outside of the outer bearing in between the C clip in the outer face of the outer bearing .... This prevents the pinion from moving back-and-forth no slop almost 0 deflection . Your illustration should’ve shown shims on the lower portion (below the green line) of the pinion in between the outer bearing in C clip ....and there is your dinner

Last edited by BarHarborBasher; 06-04-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarHarborBasher View Post
On my build video during the pinion assembly I explained how this is an important factor. The only amount of shims that are needed or the amount of shims that measure up to the amount of depth in the rear axle housing the additional shims are inserted on the outside of the outer bearing in between the C clip in the outer face of the outer bearing .... This prevents the pinion from moving back-and-forth no slop almost 0 deflection . Your illustration shouldíve shown shims on the lower portion (below the green line) of the pinion in between the outer bearing in C clip ....and there is your dinner
Ok I understand that.
Is that on YouTube? I've watched your videos but I may have missed the assembly one.

So far the simple 3 bearing no grinding mod has been fine but every now and then I hear a slight bind usually after a bad landing or going from forward to reverse too fast.

I have a dremmel and my pinion fits in the chuck of my bench drill.

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Old 06-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdiabc View Post
when torque is applied to the driveline, there will be a force repelling the pinion and bevel gear away from each other. In your picture, the pinion will try to slide downward, and never upward, when you are either braking or accelerating.

I kept using 3 bearings in my XL and it holds well. But I used castle ESC and tuned the torque down. In my opinion, 6S with a monster ESC plus castle 1515 will destroy any bevel/pinion gear if you are not careful with the throttle.
Even the standard non hd gears can take castle 1515 2200kv power if your gear mesh stays good and you have a slipper that works. But you really need to upgrade the driveline and build it carefully.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunkybob View Post
Ok I understand that.
Is that on YouTube? I've watched your videos but I may have missed the assembly one.

So far the simple 3 bearing no grinding mod has been fine but every now and then I hear a slight bind usually after a bad landing or going from forward to reverse too fast.

I have a dremmel and my pinion fits in the chuck of my bench drill.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
At 14:07 https://youtu.be/yQCVe8W_6ag I give a full explanation of the order of shims
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunkybob View Post
Ok I understand that.
Is that on YouTube? I've watched your videos but I may have missed the assembly one.

So far the simple 3 bearing no grinding mod has been fine but every now and then I hear a slight bind usually after a bad landing or going from forward to reverse too fast.

I have a dremmel and my pinion fits in the chuck of my bench drill.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
At 14:07 https://youtu.be/yQCVe8W_6ag I give a full explanation of the order of shims

Last edited by BarHarborBasher; 06-11-2018 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by xwoop View Post
Even the standard non hd gears can take castle 1515 2200kv power if your gear mesh stays good and you have a slipper that works. But you really need to upgrade the driveline and build it carefully.
I have the GPM drive shaft so at least that's strong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarHarborBasher View Post
At 14:07 https://youtu.be/yQCVe8W_6ag I give a full explanation of the order of shims
Thanks mate, I'll watch it when I have time.

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Old 06-06-2018, 05:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarHarborBasher View Post
At 14:07 https://youtu.be/yQCVe8W_6ag I give a full explanation of the order of shims
I just watched the video.. smooth as butter!
I'm going to have to order another packet of axial shims.

I wish In was in the US and I'd send you my pinion.. I'm sure I can do it myself but I'm worried if I stuff it up its $$

Does anyone make a 3rd party pinion that's already modded?

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Old 07-02-2018, 09:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunkybob View Post
Yes this is what I was thinking.. but if your jumping and land nose first won't the pinion slide forward too far? I suppose not because even if it does move a little it can never move further then what was designed by axial while not perfect won't implode.

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In the action you were describing, the pinion is so light and wont create much force at all. Don't worry about this minor issue
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdiabc View Post
when torque is applied to the driveline, there will be a force repelling the pinion and bevel gear away from each other. In your picture, the pinion will try to slide downward, and never upward, when you are either braking or accelerating.

I kept using 3 bearings in my XL and it holds well. But I used castle ESC and tuned the torque down. In my opinion, 6S with a monster ESC plus castle 1515 will destroy any bevel/pinion gear if you are not careful with the throttle.
Not true they will definitely handle 6s Iíve even ran 8s /2200kv with a c/d no issues... the reason you donít have faith is because youíre not setting them up properly. The pinion should never have movement in any axis. Iíve gotten 100s of 6s only runs without issues. Itís really not even in my consciousness wile bashing anymore.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarHarborBasher View Post
Not true they will definitely handle 6s Iíve even ran 8s /2200kv with a c/d no issues... the reason you donít have faith is because youíre not setting them up properly. The pinion should never have movement in any axis. Iíve gotten 100s of 6s only runs without issues. Itís really not even in my consciousness wile bashing anymore.
This is the kind of confidence only a man with a good diff can express!

One day I'll be this man.. one day

In your opinion is an aluminium rear axle a must?? I was either going to get that or the aluminium transmission housing.

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Old 07-05-2018, 12:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunkybob View Post
This is the kind of confidence only a man with a good diff can express!

One day I'll be this man.. one day

In your opinion is an aluminium rear axle a must?? I was either going to get that or the aluminium transmission housing.

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No aluminum transmission,bulkhead or rear axle required for Reliable 6s performance. Just a BHB pinion mod, driveshaft boot & limiting straps.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pinion mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarHarborBasher View Post
No aluminum transmission,bulkhead or rear axle required for Reliable 6s performance. Just a BHB pinion mod, driveshaft boot & limiting straps.
Thanks for that brother.

I got the aluminium bulkhead because after a few nose landing I didn't trust the plastic housing.

I have the boot dialed and I'll make some leather limiting straps and do your pinion mod with my 3 bearings.

What about the plastic transmissions that we see all melted?

I hate spending money when I don't have to so I appreciate your incredibly valued input.

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