A pic from UROC

[RSI]

im glad we got some coverage at a 1:1 event... if i still had a crawler i would be taking to to goldendale this weekend but all i got is a savage and a evader st..... being crawler less kinda sux....

[Destroyer]

Well, I just started downloading my pics, hopefully I got some good ones to post.

Destroyer

[JasonInAugusta]

busted,

I agree with you, but which is cheaper, the equipment or the lawsuit that would happen if spectators were injured?

It would absolutely suck to make the teams pay for $1,000 such device, I agree.

[T-Man]

Originally Posted by XFACTOR

OMFG This is that bob strandes guy who rolled over and lost control of his buggy when he got knocked out (i think that's what happened) either way..F**KING SCARY SH!T

http://www.offroadvideos.com/vidclip...dage_large.wmv

Man, that was crazy. I guess now they are looking for some way to have a kill switch like they have on boats and jetski's.

HOw the hell did he come so far out of his restraints though? it looks like his upper body was not in a harness of any kind as he came half way out the door. Unless I saw something wrong.

[JasonInAugusta]

He didn't tighten the shoulder straps.

Dale Earnhardt died at Daytona due to the fact that he'd always loosen his shoulder straps on the last lap.

Those loose straps are what killed Dale and knocked Bob out.

[T-Man]

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

He didn't tighten the shoulder straps.

Dale Earnhardt died at Daytona due to the fact that he'd always loosen his shoulder straps on the last lap.

Those loose straps are what killed Dale and knocked Bob out.

I just got done reading more about it. It all makes sense..... well not really. Why the heck would you enter a competition like that and now climb in, strap down, and be ready for that every time you get behind the wheel just doesn't make sense to me.

I guess it just shows that we should never get to laxxed in our rigs.

He sure did come way out to hit his tire.

[jason]

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

Why is everyone soo quick to jump on this damn kill switch idea??

Because people like the whole knee jerk reaction thing.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

Hittin your noggin on the wheel and going unconscience isnt gonna happen everytime you take a very hard hit if you have the right saftey equipment IN THE CAR and USE IT CORRECTLY!!

That is not 100% true. Do you think Dale Earnhardt had his seat belts adjusted properly? I'll bet he had them pretty tight.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

I would place money a combo of open face helmet, no neck restraints, and primarily a lack of correctly worn and tightened 5 point belts lead to him having enough slop in his saftey gear to allow his head to contact the wheel.

I'll agree here.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

5 points work in keeping your damn body in place if you tighten them properly.

not always 100% true.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

Still worried, well for $50 more on your helmet and $50 in new pieces buy a neck restraint set up like in sprint cars, rally cars, ect. that will limit your head movement.

You're right it will limit your head movement, but will it keep things like this from happening?

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

Ever see the prices of a kill switch??? For a full bore set up "like the monster trucks", since that is what a moonbuggy is trying to be anyways, it will cost UROC $4k plus and each team $1k plus to be set up.
Then comes in the human factor, again, in who has the right to say I am outta control, when I am merely giving my buggy the berries and having to hammer down to get up a cliff dive obstacle?

I'll agree they are expensive, but you can make them cheap. The human factor is always there, just part of life.

What the hell do you mean when you say, "Like the monster trucks, since that is what a moonbuggy is trying to be anyways"?

Are you serious, you think a moonbuggy is trying to be a monster truck?

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

I still feel after seeing moonbuggies up close, being in them, and being around racecars since I was born, that the required saftey gear needs to be used to its fullest extent before we all chime in and force more rules apon those competing.

I agree a lot of people do not even use the safety gear we are required to use now, so lets get that going before forcing in more stuff.

What moon buggy have you been in?

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

As it is a UROC buggy has to have 2 kill switches, one next to the driver and one external one.

This is wrong we are required to have 1 kill switch. It has to have a teather attached to it, and if your dash bar is narrower than 36" it has to be on the right hand side, if wider than 36" it has to be in the center.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

UROC also, has a great tech inspection,

This couldn't be any farther from the truth. Sometimes they are strict at one event and easy at another. Sometimes they are strict on one person and not another. The only thing consistent about UROC tech is that it is inconsistent.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

but what they are lacking is in making sure that all competitors know how to properly use thier saftey gear. Anyone can figure out that your shoulder belts need to be mounted parallel to the top of your shoulders or up to 1" below the top of your shoulders, but how many of these guys know that they need to cinch the fawk outta them, and get those belts tight.

Like I said before a lot of people do not use the required equiptment correctly.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

You dont need to move around to see where you are going in a moonbuggy as you did in the old days of a full bodied rig.
Also, neck restraints, and braces would make accidents like that one hard to repeat. The resulting movement of the driver after impact is just too much for a properly used saftey restraint system.

People still move around quite a bit in all the cars, have you seen how many levers you need to operate? Try doing that with a neck brace, tight *** 5 point, arm restraints, hans device, window net, full face helmet, ect. Not saying we don't need all those things, just making a point.

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

Why do you think the HANS device is needed???? Belts will hold you in place sooo well that you neck will move forward, that without some sort of neck restraint you can sever nerves, bones and other important pieces of your neck, and nervous system.

I understand what a hans device is for, but is it practicle for this sport?

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

I say tryout things that are cheap and PROVEN EFFECTIVE in all situations first, then, if that doesnt work, try better barriers, then and only then, allow outside control of the vehicle.

The biggest thing is that all of these devices were built for other motorsports after many years of research and data gathering. To this date no one has collected any data on the forces we as rockcrawlers undergo. This sport is entirely different that any other.

[bustedcrawler]

Originally Posted by Jason

That is not 100% true. Do you think Dale Earnhardt had his seat belts adjusted properly? I'll bet he had them pretty tight.

I will give you that much, but forensic engineering afterward showed that it was not the fault of the belts, but a problem with the belt mounting in the chassis.

Originally Posted by Jason

not always 100% true.

This is why I said the work to keep you, they may not keep you there in the end, but there are they to work, and try to keep you in there.

Originally Posted by Jason

You're right it will limit your head movement, but will it keep things like this from happening?

Maybe, I think this would be a logical place to start and eliminate most of the problems. From what I can see in the video the impact forces his head and body to move so far forward that head meets steering wheel. Now, given the same impact with tight belts, and a helmet restraint, I would say that it shouldnt happen, and if it did, the impact would be far far less than what he suffered without them.

Originally Posted by Jason

I'll agree they are expensive, but you can make them cheap. The human factor is always there, just part of life.

I have to give you that. I am just not very comfortable with the thought that some prick of a judge may shut down my buggy, as I am reaching for Reverse to prevent a roll, and thereby cause the roll to occur. But the Human factor will always be there.

Originally Posted by Jason

What the hell do you mean when you say, "Like the monster trucks, since that is what a moonbuggy is trying to be anyways"?
Are you serious, you think a moonbuggy is trying to be a monster truck?

I was being sarcastic. Pirate was showcasing the remote kill switch bandwagon, and it started here. Most people relate a remote kill switch to monster trucks. Much like wheel restriants are linked to Formula style cars. However, a moonbuggy is nothing like a monster truck, and I personally feel that just because monster trucks use it, moonbuggies need it.

Originally Posted by Jason

I agree a lot of people do not even use the safety gear we are required to use now, so lets get that going before forcing in more stuff.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Jason

What moon buggy have you been in?

SpiderTrax, Gib's and Eddie's old buggies. Nothing quite like a mondern one, but having been to a few comps, I just can't picture how, if properly installed and used restraints are worn how your head can meet the wheel with such force to knock you out. In 99% of the impacts that you should see in a comp.

Originally Posted by Jason

This is wrong we are required to have 1 kill switch. It has to have a teather attached to it, and if your dash bar is narrower than 36" it has to be on the right hand side, if wider than 36" it has to be in the center.

Sorry, I went through all of this with Wes, and thought it was 2, not just the 1. Also, I the MiniBaja car we built had to have 2 kills, one driver, and one external. I fawked up here.

Originally Posted by Jason

This couldn't be any farther from the truth. Sometimes they are strict at one event and easy at another. Sometimes they are strict on one person and not another. The only thing consistent about UROC tech is that it is inconsistent.

Not having, been an insider, and only spectating and reading the rules, I have to conced this to you. The rules on paper, for tech mind you, look solid. It is too bad to hear that they, UROC, can not get thier act together and be consistant with judging and tech inspections.

Originally Posted by Jason

Like I said before a lot of people do not use the required equiptment correctly.

Well time for UROC to step up and fix this problem.

Originally Posted by Jason

People still move around quite a bit in all the cars, have you seen how many levers you need to operate? Try doing that with a neck brace, tight *** 5 point, arm restraints, hans device, window net, full face helmet, ect. Not saying we don't need all those things, just making a point.

Agreed. I just think that 5 points, a good seat, nice helmet, and maybe, neck restriants are all that should be needed to take a situation like what happened and make it very uncommon and rare.

Originally Posted by Jason

I understand what a hans device is for, but is it practicle for this sport?

More than likely not, since how often are the impacts that you suffer are a head on type? Not many I would guess. Also, not to mention the fact that the G-loading on a moonbuggy driver will be less than a Nasqueer driver will see.

Originally Posted by Jason

The biggest thing is that all of these devices were built for other motorsports after many years of research and data gathering. To this date no one has collected any data on the forces we as rockcrawlers undergo. This sport is entirely different that any other

True, but there are many parrallels that can be drawn. Most of the saftey development has come from Formula 1 or NASqueer. IRL and CART have done some, but since they are running simailar course at similar speeds, they can draw parrallels. If you want to see the loadings that your buggy and you see, just let me know. We can order up some gagues, a data collection set up, and I will give you all the numbers on loading, stress, strain, g-forces that you want.



BTW, gimmie a yell some time *****!