The sky is falling!

[Mr.Slave]

It's all part of an ever expanding population.
you used to be able to do somethings when you were little 20-30 years ago when there was half as many people around as there is now so obviously with more people doing more of the same.. it doesn't ever end good

as far as it being arrogant to think that humans can affect the planet at all. its absolutely naive to think we cant. especially with the 800 million cars we have burning dino juice. just seeing the local rush hour traffic and then beginning to think that this picture is the same and worse all over the planet is enough to make me feel like shit about it, not evn climate change but air pollution and everything with it.

[Grizzly4x4]

If our technology can't correctly predict the weather 1 week in advance I don't see how I am supposed to believe they know anything about what will happen in 50 years.......

[nukegm426]

one of my biggest problems with the land closures is that the activists will get land closed with some shady rhetoric, then later when it's proved that not only were the lying/wrong, but that it can be PROVED that none of the harm they described was happening the courts still refuse to open the land back up. yes sometimes they have good intentions in certain areas, but most of the attention for these people comes from them closing areas with outright lies. they should police themselves if they don't want such a bad reputation....just as the offroad community has begun to police itself to try and keep a few bad apples from painting all of us with a bad brush.

[salmonshark]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

If our technology can't correctly predict the weather 1 week in advance I don't see how I am supposed to believe they know anything about what will happen in 50 years.......

Totally agree. How many times have 'computer models' been wrong? And I am supposed to buy this crap that the seas will rise, and the world will end? Based on a computer model? I think not.

Now, can we do stuff that can help, sure. However, slitting our own throats to save the planet isn't an option for me.


SS

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Economic consequences are nothing compared to what they felt was a very real and very near catastrophic future for mankind. If you were told tomorrow that you possibly had some swift moving, potentially fatal disease that required a change in lifestyle and expensive treatment, would you not be prepared to make whatever sacrifices were necessary to avoid the tragic and seemingly inevitable end? Of course you would most likely seek a second opinion on the matter, but in terms of our ecological future, we have nothing else to refer to.

"FELT"! Everything on the left is about feelings.

Instead of automatically putting the economic consequences in a position of least importance and ignoring the impact to the people, the Left needs to look at the big picture. IF they feel something is really in need of being eliminated, they should at least be willing to compromise and respect the rights of the people. Unfortunately, the people and the economic impact on them is always the Left's lowest priority

And so again it comes down to self importance. Do you put yourself and your ideals first, at the cost of the health of the planet and the well being of its inhabitants?

Yes I put the importance of human life, their Constitutional rights (which are above any and all environmental law or animal "rights"), and their right to make a living ahead above those of any plant or animal.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

The plants and animals are here for us to eat. We are the top of the food chain.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

The plants and animals are here for us to eat.

"Plants"?? What are you, some kind of vegan hippie or something?

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

The plants and animals are here for us to eat. We are the top of the food chain.

Something like that, yes.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

"Plants"?? What are you, some kind of vegan hippie or something?

Ricky still has more Californian in him than I thought!

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by salmonshark

Now, can we do stuff that can help, sure. However, slitting our own throats to save the planet isn't an option for me.


SS

Agreed. I recycle what I can, I tell them to keep the bag if I can carry all my items out of the store.

My biggest gripes are "Global Warming" and "Fossil Fuel". We don't even know where "fossil fuel" comes from. The theory that it comes from fossils is nothing more than a theory. Just like they used to think dinosaurs were lizards and now they think they were birds. For all we know the earth continues to produce crude oil from under the surface. My graduate level professor in my internal combustion engines class told me that.

Point is, we don't know jack and most certainly less than some people think they do.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by dezfan

Ahh, but we do.

We are told in Genesis 1 that God said to man, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth”

But that's a different subject.

That right there is one of my major beefs with Christianity and its followers.
Because that affects everybody not just the people that subscribe to it.

But like you said, different thread.

[BC Racing]

Dez i'm confused....is this threads subject about loving and caring for the earth that god provided for you and I, or is this just the typical political finger pointing that has and continues to persist in our country?

Pick your party; "Were right and your wrong, no your wrong and were right".....I think your all F-ing wrong!

Sorry for the confusion.....my head is spinning from the counter clockwise rotation as we head down the drain that we all find ourselves in these days.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by BC Racing

Dez i'm confused....is this threads subject about loving and caring for the earth that god provided for you and I, or is this just the typical political finger pointing that has and continues to persist in our country?

Pick your party; "Were right and your wrong, no your wrong and were right".....I think your all F-ing wrong!

Sorry for the confusion.....my head is spinning from the counter clockwise rotation as we head down the drain that we all find ourselves in these days.

It started out as a look at the absurdity of the predictions that are used in an attempt to further the Liberal/Eco/Left agenda and has followed a meandering path as the discussion has evolved.

Your right, no one party, person, or ideology is wholly to blame for our current situation. However if I have to choose a side to stand and fight with. I'm standing to the right. That's just the way I see it at this point.

No need to be sorry. I get fed up w/ the situation as well, but I feel that I need to be willing to stand up and take the heat from those who disagree while I try to show the reality of things I find to be erroneous.

We can't all be F-ing wrong, but we all need to learn to be more willing to see the others POV and be willing to comprimise.

[BC Racing]

Originally Posted by dezfan

...but we all need to learn to be more willing to see the others POV and be willing to comprimise.

I agree 100%.....the sad part of it though, is it will never happen till we have no choice but too.

Man I wish the aliens would land and show themselves...then maybe

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by BC Racing

I agree 100%.....the sad part of it though, is it will never happen till we have no choice but too.

Sad, but you're probably right.

[ctrwannabe]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I agree with you Cole. It is rough to see several nations that are trying quite hard to help with this, while most others (generally developing countries) are increasing their pollution output exponentially.

Yep, but what can you do? I get it though, they want their chance to grow and be prosperous yadda yadda and who's to say they cant if we have already gone threw ours? Look at Dubai, in the last 10 years it has exploded with infrastructure and buildings, or China already running 13 or so nuclear power plants with plans for 27 more over the next few years. It also does not help the the oil companies are pushing so much cash threw washington this "eco change and finding alternative energy" should have started 30-40 years ago.

I think im not making any sence

[microgoat]

Great. 40 nuke plants with Integy build quality

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by dezfan

"FELT"! Everything on the left is about feelings.

Then replace "felt" with "thought". It works either way.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Instead of automatically putting the economic consequences in a position of least importance and ignoring the impact to the people, the Left needs to look at the big picture. IF they feel something is really in need of being eliminated, they should at least be willing to compromise and respect the rights of the people. Unfortunately, the people and the economic impact on them is always the Left's lowest priority

Just because an industry employs large amounts of people doesn't mean its exempt from any environmental responsibility for the sake of the local economy.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Yes I put the importance of human life, their Constitutional rights (which are above any and all environmental law or animal "rights"), and their right to make a living ahead above those of any plant or animal.

Having the "right" to do something doesn't mean you should do it. There has to be some wisdom factored in there somewhere. You've got the right to light your house on fire, but what will you and your family do when its been reduced to ash?

Originally Posted by ctrwannabe

Look at Dubai, in the last 10 years it has exploded with infrastructure and buildings

And it has no middle class. If you're there, you're either the ultra-rich living in excess, or one of the poor working class. I've got a freind that lives near there, and said the buildings are cool, but its still a shithole.

Originally Posted by ctrwannabe

It also does not help the the oil companies are pushing so much cash threw washington this "eco change and finding alternative energy" should have started 30-40 years ago.

Oil companies are one of the largest contributors when election time comes around. You can guess to which side a large portion of that money goes...

Originally Posted by microgoat

Great. 40 nuke plants with Integy build quality

I wouldn't worry about it until one pops up constructed soley of anodized alloy and carbon fiber.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Then replace "felt" with "thought". It works either way.

You would think so, but unfortunately the "thought" process of the environmentalist seems to be, "screw everyone that doesn't believe as they do".

Just because an industry employs large amounts of people doesn't mean its exempt from any environmental responsibility for the sake of the local economy.

Were is the environmentalists economic responsibility? They shouldn't be exempt from reeking havoc on industries, peoples lives, or their ability to provide for themselves in the name of environmental ideology.

If they can't provide concrete proof of their accusations, then I say error of the side of people being able to provide for themselves.

Having the "right" to do something doesn't mean you should do it. There has to be some wisdom factored in there somewhere. You've got the right to light your house on fire, but what will you and your family do when its been reduced to ash?

The very reason we have reached the point we have in this country is because we don't stand up to protect and defend our rights! Rights are not something given to us by the government, therefore they can't take them away in the name of environmentalism, political correctness, or any other tactic used to erode our rights.

Again, the Government only has the power that we give them! Some how that power structure has been reversed.

I think our founding fathers provided us w/ the ultimate wisdom when they wrote the Constitution. I think it's time that we get back to those founding values and get rid of this mess we are choking on now.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by dezfan

"screw everyone that doesn't believe as they do".

That seems to be a running thought for a lot of groups out there, not just the liberals.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Were is the environmentalists economic responsibility? They shouldn't be exempt from reeking havoc on industries, peoples lives, or their ability to provide for themselves in the name of environmental ideology.

If they can't provide concrete proof of their accusations, then I say error of the side of people being able to provide for themselves.

True, they should be held responsible for any financial repercussions should their claims not pan out as they claim they do, to a point, and depending on the end result.

If it turns out that the claims were false, or over inflated, yet the investigation resulted in cleaner technology, or an exposing of some kind of large scale polution or ecological destruction, then we're better off, even if a few people do lose their jobs (though there is the possibility of new jobs being created...). On the other hand, if it turns out that their accusations result in nothing more than a disruption of daily lives and some broadcast news attention whoring, then there should be some type of punishment. Monetary reimbursment would only go so far. There aren't too many multi-millionaire dirty hippies.

Originally Posted by dezfan

The very reason we have reached the point we have in this country is because we don't stand up to protect and defend our rights! Rights are not something given to us by the government, therefore they can't take them away in the name of environmentalism, political correctness, or any other tactic used to erode our rights.

Agreed, but some standard of preservation must be upheld, even if it does limit our access to certain areas. We can't NOT make a negative impact in one way or the other, no matter how hard we try, but we shouldn't go willy nilly just because a crusty old book says we can.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Again, the Government only has the power that we give them! Some how that power structure has been reversed.

I think our founding fathers provided us w/ the ultimate wisdom when they wrote the Constitution. I think it's time that we get back to those founding values and get rid of this mess we are choking on now.

Sad but true, but everyone has rights to uphold what they believe, whether you or I agree with it or not. Equal rights and equal freedoms doesn't mean equal happiness.

[RANOVRU]

You either look at things with a "me" attitude or a humanitarian/planitarian attitude.

A lot of people get hung up on things like their "rights" and everything/everybody else be damned.

And I cant believe religion was actually mentioned here. What a mentallity...