Re: Fwck gun control
 

The Sandy Hook slaughter looks like the tipping point for a serious national discussion on the Second Amendment rights and what it's become. As gun owners and sportsmen we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility of a very difficult fight and the possibility of things changing. We have never seen a reaction brewing of this magnitude before. The most recent polling shows a huge ground swell movement demanding changes to laws based on the Second Amendment. Personally I don't think the NRA or the gun lobby will be able to deliver an argument that will satisfy everyone in this angry mob that's assembling, it's very possible somethings will be changed. Most at risk are military style assault weapons and ammunition, body armor and certain had guns all will be at high risk.

Ricky's right our mental health care system that carred for our mentally ill was taken apart by President Clinton and Speaker Gingrich fifteen years ago to balance our budget. In hind site it was a penny wise and pound foolish exercise and the evidence is everywhere. Unfortunately we have more extremely disturbed people on the streets today than ever before. They go untreated and unrecognized most are harmless but a few freaks use weapons to take innocent lives usually in the process of taking their own. How we the NRA and the gun lobby answer to that extreme will make all the difference.

It would be a crying shame to see long standing family sporting traditions change but I don't think their in jeopardy. But many other laws we currently enjoy could easily be lost dependent on the majority of Americans apatite for this upcoming long battle it appears we're going to have on guns in America.

I have a feeling this one is coming straight at us unlike the previous mass killings of the past this one has extremely high charged emotional energy behind it that probably won't fade away like others have.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

To the poster who mentioned parental discipline and getting a nice smack on the ass, agreed. How many of these psychopaths would have committed the crime if they had parents that TRULY gave a rat's ass about their kids and disciplining them when they messed up? I grew up in strict home and if I messed up, I got a belt or paddle to the rear end. I thought my parents were the worst because of it, until I grew up and realized why they did it. If parents would be parents and not try to be their kid's best friend or be the "cool parent", things would be different. I'll go to my grave believing that. My solace in this tragedy is knowing that those children are in a much better place where they'll never know pain, sickness, or heartache again.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

The big problem with Japans statistics is the method they use to keep track of the crimes. They show stats from the police reports. Not reported crimes, but the crimes that police officers record. A LOT of crime goes unlisted in Japan. Better to have more solved murders than to record every single one, right?


But there is a very large cultural difference in Japan, one of greater mutual respect than in the US. They have been on the same land for thousands of years and know how to handle themselves without putting shame on their family name. During the last large catastrophe, people lined up and waited to get rationed water from stores that had no power. What happens in the US? We loot stores and take as much for ourselves as possible.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

My terms would never be met...sarcasm in reply allows me to basically know I'll never have to give mine back.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I think religion could be a factor ( or lack of ) I would be curios to find out what % of the past shooters we know of went to church reguarly as youth.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

A couple of things I'd like to point out:

1. The guns used in this killing did not belong to the shooter, they belonged to his mother. Even if he had been previously screened as "mentally unsuitable for using guns", he still had access to them. For me, part of responsible gun ownership is making sure that the guns you do own are only accessible to the owner. Time and time again you hear of purposeful or accidental shooting because people are too lazy or cheap to buy a proper gun safe and use it.

2. Parental upbringing does not always determine mental health. Numerous mental disorders are the result of imbalances in brain chemistry, not because the person was spanked or not spanked as a kid. There is a huge education process needed on mental health, including removing the stigma of having mental health issues.

Reading through the posts here and seeing the news reports, I really feel a lot of US citizens live in a state of paranoia, fearing that if they don't have guns, some random stranger is going to shoot them. I think the media is to blame for this as well, highlighting and overexposing cases like this and making it seem as though society is falling apart and you must prepare for the apocalypse now.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against responsible gun ownership. However, when certain groups use fear as a motive for owning a gun, that is never a good situation.

in oregon, it is illegal to carry on private property when notice is given. the guy who was conceal carrying in clackimas was just as much in the wrong as the guy who did the shooting in respects to having a firearm on the property. its called criminal trespass usually. if notice is given you can be picked up by the cops and charged, CHL or no CHL, if you do not comply.

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Re: Fwck gun control
 

So you think going to church deters crazys? I guess if you think molesters who spend their entire life in the faith aren't crazy you might be onto something. Otherwise your point is invalid.

why is everyone so bent on seeing if there was blame on the gun or not? its an inanimate object. a tool, if you will. people have been killing and injuring each other since the beginning of time without guns. guns are a very recent invention as far as human history goes.

the issue is people.

how to we fix the people problem?

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i agree with most of you guys/ girls.
changing the second ammendment to outlaw guns isnt going to solve a damn thing. i beleive it will cause ALOT more problems.

people say guns kill people. for example if somebody put a loaded gun in the center of a place were several thousand people go to in a day, and nothing touched that gun. after several days nobody would have been killed. for this to be true, the gun is not the issue.

i beleive we need some more security around the schools, wether it be nore security to get into one, or more police officers around to ensure that the students and faculty are safe. instead of that make people who are trying to buy a firearm have to take a test to prove that you not insane, and sign something that they are going to be responsible and put there firearm in a gun safe of some sort.


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Re: Fwck gun control
 

church offers a huge amount of moral support and guidance.

I was raised baptist....


I dont like the power or ideologies the catholic church has,( I aint bowing to any man, and I damn sure aint kissin his ring ) or thier past ways of doing things....hell that is where lutherans come from....one of their own ( catholics ) saw them as corrupted.

lots of shit went wrong with the boy scouts too, but they also did alot of good. Bad people are gonna do bad shit....

the problem with both the catholics and teh boy scouts is how they handled the problems.....cant stop what might happen, but you can handle it properly
at least and not hide it.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

we have a different opinion on whats resposible

How locked down should the guns be?

My son could need access to a weapon....

My guns are always loaded with one in the chamber, and none are locked up.
my sons shotgun stays next to teh front door.

my wifes 38 is next to her front seat in her car

my 45 is next to my passenger seat in my truck

I want every member of my house to have access, the guns are for all our
protection..and ready to use.

This is how my grandad raised his sons
this is how my dad rasied me, and this is how I have raised my son.

every gun is always ready....and we are raised that ( unloaded ) guns kill
more people accidentally than ( loaded ) guns do.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I was raised with no church, you are implying I'm immoral and more likely to become a mass shooter?

I don't get why you'd involve religion into this when it has nothing to do with the topic. I mean if you were right, only atheists would kill people, which never seems to be the case.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

:roll:

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

boy did I read that wrong... I thought he was saying church breeds crazies!

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I lived with my mom and her husband for 3yrs...catholic church....I know what I witnessed and that is what I speak of.

I also know how they let people "buy" thier forgivness. ( this was the spawn of the lutheran church )

Now is it usual for you to speak as your the know it all....

I know this for damn sure...you can kiss my rebel dick:flipoff:

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I attended a Catholic Church for 18 years.....none of what you "wittnessed" is true.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I agree. It is people. That being said, you can kill faster, and a lot more people with a gun than fists, clubs, arrows, knives, etc.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

f.u.

I was there, I know what I witnessed, told tell me what is true.

I was raised baptist till 12, lived with my mom in lewisvill from 12-15.
during that time I had to go thier church.......the church was actually in a town called marcus I believe.

at end of service we all got to walk by in sigle file line....take a bow, kiss his ring and call him father.....

I was not raised that way, I did not recieve it well, and never took to it.
My disaprovel of thier church was actually a HUGE problem with her husband, and a main reason I got booted out....

It was actually my distast for thier church that made me check into lutherans....since it was founded from a catholic deserter.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

That's a lovely "church going" attitude you have there...:roll:

Re: Fwck gun control
 

Must have been a weird catholic church to allow divorce and remarriage back then. :lmao:

Re: Fwck gun control
 

Have a link to the staute?(would save me some time looking for it)

Where I live you can be arrested for carrying on private property if you asked to leave and refuse to. There is always a chance the notice is not seen when entering due to various reasons.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

It amazed me I found a article like this today with all the gun hating going.

The Second Amendment Is Not Negotiable

very good read!

We all need to support the last people trying to fight for your rights
http://home.nra.org/#/home

Re: Fwck gun control
 

i doubt your founding fathers invisioned what is going on today, they would be rolling over in their graves..i doubt the envisioned semi auto rifles, silencers,..etc
america must be the safest country in the word...not at all actually
why do americans kill each other more than any other western industrialized nation..im not trying to dig im answering serious questions..i like guns but some of this is ridiculous

"How locked down should the guns be?

My son could need access to a weapon....

My guns are always loaded with one in the chamber, and none are locked up.
my sons shotgun stays next to teh front door.

my wifes 38 is next to her front seat in her car

my 45 is next to my passenger seat in my truck"

paranoid much..sounds like an accident waiting to happen
just trying to understand

Re: Fwck gun control
 

here is more reading for you all.

US government intelligence agencies see possible economic collapse, resource wars, the fall of America by 2030

Now keep in mind you can't belive everything you read but there is some info to answer some questions in here.





Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

This site has some info to. Take the time to look through it.

Make up your own minds on the info here but its some of the stuff I have seen lately on other media form.


I for one don't see a bright future for the US I think their we be some sort of rise of the individual and some sort of fall of are goverment. I'm not saying their will be a full on revolution but some thing is going to happen before I grow old and die. That and climate change on top of all that I can say Ive started prepping :evil:. People are going crazy, goverment is trying to take over are freedoms. Thing are not looking good folks but take it how you want to. I for one will be in the woods as far away as I can from it all with my guns the ones I have now and the one I'll have in a month or 2 :twisted:

Re: Fwck gun control
 

not paraniod, prepared

My wife carries a 38 in her car....lord forbid she ever needs it ( brokke down, flat tire, ect ) and she gets jacked with.

I carry a 45 in my truck for simular reasons, though I'm also on the road alot.

My sone shotgun is at the front door cuz we have alot of issues others may not.

dogs mostly, but also varmints. If a dog is getting after our goats....we kill it.
Dont want any risk of projectiles leaving my proprty, so shootgun with bird shot is perfect. Usually a shoot or 2 n the air will scatter the dogs.

Its at the front door cuz this is an often accourance here.

But, lord forbid we have an inntruder.....I dont want my kid locked out of the guns.


I'm also worry alot....when my kid was around 4, I tought him how to safely break out of his window and how to use a fire extenguisher.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

Gun control huh?

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z..._Guns_Too_.mp4

Maybe for this guy

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I am getting into this a little late, but here is my take on things. More gun control isn't the answer. All that does is stop the honest person from getting weapons (the ones that are responsible and not doing any killing). The problems lie in the mental heath of individuals. Did you know that most day treatment centers that used to take Medicare/Medicaid, no longer do? They have shut down, because the government subsidies that most of these folks used stop paying. Why do the cuts start there? I know this because my son (adopted) has some issues that scare the crap out of us. He NEEDS the day treatment facilities that are no longer available to him. But I can tell you this, he has already threatened to kill his mom, sister, and everyone in her house. I have him in counseling, and have since he was 5. STOP cutting the programs these people need. It continues to get worse, and it will get even worse until we start focusing on the real problems. Just my opinion though and I'm sure its been back and forth from the start, but I live with it, and we (my family) are doing everything we can to stop it.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

In all honesty i've yet to form an opinion if gun control would have helped until all the facts come out.

Do we know if the guns used were just around the house or kept locked away?

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I knew Rockhard would jack this thread up.



http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...15083D89FA.jpg

Re: Fwck gun control
 

My late father-in-law was an ex-Catholic priest. My mother-in-law worked for her local Catholic church for quite a few years. It was not uncommon for 1 or 2 priests to come by the house on holidays and hang out for a while.

Never once saw any of what you described.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

well I did. and I was only around it for a few yrs...but that was enough for me to gather a great distast for it..

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I swear the only reason the news/media reports on anything anymore is to shove some bullshit propoganda down our throats while society as a whole is more vulnerable from the emotion of tragedy. This time: Less guns, more medication. Disarm the masses, make man not trust his fellow man, make man trust only the one 'big brother'. I am sickened by how much we point the finger at "mentally ill" people. I have worked with "mentally ill" patients and from the ones that i have, i would bet your average joe after a bad day would be just as likely to shoot the place up.

He could have just been another kid fawked in the head from big pharma, not needing more of it:
Index to SSRI Stories

It's safe to say america is more crazy as a whole because we love big pharma. Look at switzerland's gun ownership and gun crime right. Ownership: Very high, crime rate: very low. 50% of american's in 2008 had taken at least one prescription in the past month. Something like 90% of those on anti-depressants also took at least one other chemical. That was also 4 years ago, trends show numbers much higher now. American's get sad for 2 days in a row and think they're clinically depressed. We get anxiety/depression once from a heart breaking situation and don't know what to do or how to get out of the funk so we turn to the doc and are on meds for years from it. We can't sleep and never blame the root, so we take sleeping pills. We get old, our backs hurt, so we get "pain medication". We take pain medication, but once we stop the meds, we almost feel worse (withdrawl), so we continue to take pain medication for this "chronic pain" and to have energy in the morning. We can't excersize on our own to lose weight so we take sythetic methamphetamines. Our kids get bad grades at school and cant focus because we let them play video games all day and they never learned to take any initiative, or better yet be in control of their brain, so the doc prescribes them legal meth. Parent's don't know what to do or how to talk to their kids so they can improve on their own, so they turn to the doc.
Anybody can be diagnosed as crazy, anybody can be diagnosed with depression/bi-polar at the right time, we are humans and have emotions which highly influence "us". Problem is, we don't want to face emotions, we don't want to be in control, happiness never comes to us because it is never good enough to believe in, we don't want to fight ourselves, we don't want to feel pain, and a lot of the time we think the guy next to us will "take care of the problem" which is why we love the doc. He can "fix" the issue so i don't have to. Look at that guy who was on the train tracks for 25+seconds in ny, huge crowds watched him get run over to death, not one person helped because they thought someone else was going to. Also, all of this medicating is weakening our central nervous system, chemtrails are weakening it as well, leaving us dressed in sheep's clothing for the one who has mastered mind control. I forgot to mention. A lot of the names behind anti-depressant developments and the western big pharma push are also the same names who worked along side Hitler for mind control/brain washing experimenting during the holocaust. That's because we saved all these "scientists", and brought them to American to "teach us" what they knew.

Society as a whole is becoming more numb, and less aware because it is being brought upon us by the gov't/big pharma. It's not really a big surprise people are going bananas. To me at least. Just my .02.

Strange times are ahead, stay aware my friends 8)

Re: Fwck gun control
 

What our founding fathers stood for would make most people these days roll over in their graves.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

What if, what if, what if? Aside from the control of problem dogs/animals, I fail to see any real reason for your gun ownership. Living in fear that you might get car jacked, living in fear that you might have an intruder. Hell, there's tons of driving related deaths here every year. By that thinking, I should probably just avoid the roads altogether, "just in case".

I respect your right to ownership of guns. However, admitting that you have them lying about, loaded and ready to go really does nothing to help promote responsible gun ownership and everything to give fodder for the gun control radicals to say "see, this is just an accident waiting to happen and why stricter gun laws are needed".

Re: Fwck gun control
 

one thing i have noticed..the other western industrialized countries that have been noted in this thread have alot of arms, sometimes mandatory.. and low crime..especially low gun crime are far more socialist..whats the connection or difference?

Re: Fwck gun control
 

Lack of a "melting pot" society?

Re: Fwck gun control
 

I was raised in a home that always had loaded guns at easy reach of everyone. We were taught to respect them and how to handle them.
My Granddad would have it no other way.Over that time they were needed several times due to the location of the farm we grew up on.For some reason it attracted crazy people.And the bad rattle snake problem we had.It was very common to grab the shotgun sitting by the door to shoot a rattlesnake as you opened the door so you could leave the house.
I can remember as of about the age of 12 when you got home from school you put on a gun belt to go ride 4 wheelers or what ever and during hunting season the second you walked in the house you grabbed your pistol and rifle and went to the woods. Nothing bad ever happened they where tools that we had at or disposal.

Now that I am grown I still have tons of firearms but I keep them in a safe when i'm not home other than the one i carry on my side.Its not that i do not trust my son with them he understands them fully but i do not trust the other kids in the neighbor hood.I have no clue how they have been taught and do not want to find out .I know we have one family that will not allow there kids to come to the house to play because we have guns.To me that is fine and after a talk I know they have no clue about them and I hate seeing people like that saying there bad when they are just miss informed on proper care and handling.

Re: Fwck gun control
 

LOL go figure religion would make it into this thread. It seems to leach through everywhere.


I was listening to a local personallity on the radio this morning on the way to a jobsite and I think he said it best, "People just need to be nicer to one another. Stop hating people because their "opinion" doesnt groove with yours."

A LEO called into the show and actually made me think with a statement he made. He said, "IDK that having all of the faculty armed would be that great of a thing or not. If I show up to a scene simular to fridays and everyones (or a majority) got guns, it makes it little more difficult to determine who the threat is."


Part of me says we'll definately see major changes in gun control from this event, but another part of me says we've seen this many times before and things are still fairly loose in that department. I think HLS (homeland security) has been the biggest change in the last decade or so but thats not really directed specifically at guns. I do not think "gun control" is the "answer" to problems like this nor do I think your typical gun owner has anything to worry about realistically.

I dont think there is an "answer" to issues like this. Societies are crumbling and to dive into the "problem" [people] is to dive into the human psyche, which we really dont know that much about. In many cases its extremely difficult or impossible to understand why a person does something like mass murder.