How's Your Minimum Wage Doing?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

People these days think they have to have kids in their early 20's whether they can afford them or not. That is idiotic and irresponsible on its best day.

People have always done that, and they always will.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Drones are dime a dozen and easily replaceable.

Precisely my point. It's more cost effective to fill your ranks with cannon fodder overseen by a few well paid managers.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

An intelligent and thoughtful employee with initiative will generally be moved up out of the lower ranks.

Not always. I've worked at places where income was tied to your job title. There wasn't room to promote me, and they couldn't pay me more because I'd already hit the preset cap for my position.

At that point, all you can do is wait it out, making less than you are worth, or start over somewhere else. Either way, you're fawked for a while.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

I don't think it's so much that the minimum wage is too low in that the .gov has done everything they have done to destroy the middle class. The poor (by choice or otherwise) can get benefits to raise them up to the middle and the higher classes can afford cpa's and Lawyers to limit their tax burden while the true middle class pays a crazy high percentage of their wealth in taxes. Dollar for dollar the higher classes pay more for sure but percentage wise I believe the middle class has a bigger burden.

The middle class does not rely on anything near the minimum wage. And yes, when compared to the cost of living, minimum wage is too low, and has been for a long time.

The middle class has almost always bore the greatest percentage of the tax burden, for exactly the reasons you stated. They don't get the assistance that lower incomes do, and they can't afford to work the system and pay much less than advertised like the higher incomes and corporations can. The only real exception to that was long ago when the wealthy were taxed out the hooha to keep the wars funded.

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by calcagno45

What the fawk is wrong with putting in the hard work, starting a business, or moving up because of your smarts and drive to do better and being rewarded by making $200MM? Because not everyone will achieve that, no one should? Instead, the CEO should forfeit 95% of the salary to hire more unnecessary workers to sit around and collect a check? Or "save the world" here? Do you realize while the CEO is making that money, he's also employee many people, paying his taxes, paying business taxes, supporting local vendors, and providing far beyond the simplistic look of the large salary.

I haven't made minimum wage since I was 13 and even then it wasn't for long as the owner of the tire shop saw I busted my arse and made him more money thus rewarding my efforts. Now, 29yr and educated, I still bust my arse daily (in different capacities) to make the owners more money and I'm rewarded for it.

If you make $15/hr and can't afford the $900 apartment, it's called a roommate to help share the expenses. Think smart.


And keep Louisiana out of your mouth. We have enough of a welfare problem, don't need you coming join in.

How many of those CEOs actually started that company vs got put there by a board that is composed of their friends because they are gtiends and not because they are competent enough run a register for minimum wage in a store though. There have been too many companies that have been mismanaged to death by incompetent boobs that walk away with a big going away bonus while the people who were the boots on the ground get screwed out of what may have been a decent paying job and now are in the unemployment line. A CEO that is capable of growing a company is worth every penny, the one that got the job because he and some of the board members did blow off the same hooker's ass back in college.

[Greatscott]

So, about a year or two back one of the local channels ran a story about some Walmart CEO getting a bonus, and about how local Wallyworld workers had not gotten a pay raise. They interviewed one woman that was making $1 more than minimum wage and felt that it was "just wrong" that the CEO get a bonus when she had worked there for over eight years and had only gotten one 50 cent pay raise. The reporter asked her what her job was, and the worker said that she worked at the dressing rooms, she is the one that opens the doors for customers and puts the number sign on the door for the number of items they take in to try on. The reporter, trying her best to look interested asked the worker what she started out doing for Wallyworld, the worker said that is what she has always done since she was hired.

Do not want to get into a debate about Wallyworld's business practices, many are pretty messed up, but a good example of someone with no real job skills, doing the same menial job for over eight years, and wants a pay raise...

You see, a lot us see the terms "living wage job" and "career" as being synonymous. If you want a living wage job you need to develop a unique skill, hone it, and adapt it to new techniques and new technologies. Plus, there are A LOT of resources out there for people who do not have a career-type job to get education and training, you just have to go looking for those opportunities. I have known people that have worked two jobs and gone to school to get themselves on a career path; perhaps those people protesting the minimum wage would have their time better spent if they put done their picket signs and picked up a text book.

Flipping burgers was never intended to be a career job. Just sayin'...



Getting back to the crux of the story...
One city with a GIANT bleeding heart to steps took give those with menial jobs a living wage, and now most of the people they tried to help are now making less money. Perhaps their solution wasn't the right one. Maybe this is one of those situations where we needed to hit a problem off of dead center, even if it was in the wrong direction, to give us a cleared path of what we need to do.

[spaceman5280]

http://irle.berkeley.edu/files/2010/...te-Borders.pdf

I live in one of these areas and by corporate/mainstream/conservative ideology, they lower minimum wage county should be booming while the adjacent county should be stagnating, but the real world shows the opposite, they are either equal or the higher wage county does better economically.

In my case, I live in the higher wage county and we are booming.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by spaceman5280

Yes, but the part you are missing that minimum wage increases force all wages upward which increases demand in the economy which is how capitalism is maintained.

Wages going up across the board is great in the short term. Once inflation and the devalued dollar settle out we're right back in the same exact spot we were before but the dollar is worth less across the board. This is economics 101 not hope and dreams with rainbow sprinkles.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by BJoe

How many of those CEOs actually started that company vs got put there by a board that is composed of their friends because they are gtiends and not because they are competent enough run a register for minimum wage in a store though. There have been too many companies that have been mismanaged to death by incompetent boobs that walk away with a big going away bonus while the people who were the boots on the ground get screwed out of what may have been a decent paying job and now are in the unemployment line. A CEO that is capable of growing a company is worth every penny, the one that got the job because he and some of the board members did blow off the same hooker's ass back in college.

How many CEO's started in that position? They worked their way into the job from far down the totem pole. Don't hate them for success even if it is what you're taught to believe in shitcongo.

The left wants to tear the top down rather than build the bottom up. Gawdammed genius.

[BJoe]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Wages going up across the board is great in the short term. Once inflation and the devalued dollar settle out we're right back in the same exact spot we were before but the dollar is worth less across the board. This is economics 101 not hope and dreams with rainbow sprinkles.

Inflation has happened anyway, income is where it is right now because income hasn't kept pace with inflation for a couple decades as it is.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by spaceman5280

http://irle.berkeley.edu/files/2010/...te-Borders.pdf

I live in one of these areas and by corporate/mainstream/conservative ideology, they lower minimum wage county should be booming while the adjacent county should be stagnating, but the real world shows the opposite, they are either equal or the higher wage county does better economically.

In my case, I live in the higher wage county and we are booming.

Berkley is the Alex Jones of colleges.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by BJoe

Inflation has happened anyway, income is where it is right now because income hasn't kept pace with inflation for a couple decades as it is.

Yup. As long as wages track along with inflation, everything is dandy.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yup. As long as wages track along with inflation, everything is dandy.

If your wage doesn't exceed inflation it's your own fault.

[thatguy]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Walmart is not a career, it is a job.

Unless you use it to work the way up the ranks. Had a buddy in high school worked at mcdonalds. Climbed the ladder has 3 stores. McDonalds payed for all of them.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by thatguy

Unless you use it to work the way up the ranks. Had a buddy in high school worked at mcdonalds. Climbed the ladder has 3 stores. McDonalds payed for all of them.

Anything is a career if it's your chosen profession. As soon as you say "this is the work I want to focus on in life", wham-o, you've got yourself a career.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

If your wage doesn't exceed inflation it's your own fault.

Sometimes. Not always.

You always speak like everything is a constant.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Anything is a career if it's your chosen profession. As soon as you say "this is the work I want to focus on in life", wham-o, you've got yourself a career.

Sure but to me the term insinuates making a living. Minimum wage is entry level/surviving at best. A career is a viable long term job. Most anything can turn into a career if there is enough drive in the person.

A neighbor at an old house is a prime example. The dude has been a dishwasher at a local hotel for 25 years now. He gets a raise when minimum wage goes up. Absolutely no drive, no ambition or really much for brains. If his mother hadn't have left him her house and car he'd have nothing at all. His situation is unique simply because he's stayed off the dole but that is far from the norm.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Sometimes. Not always.

You always speak like everything is a constant.

I do because there is little gray area in my views. Whether someone stays at a go nowhere job because they're dumb, lazy or scared of change it is all on the person. Contrary to some beliefs there is no boogy man holding people down .

[Greatscott]

Originally Posted by spaceman5280

Wrong again, minimum wage increases are necessary because the imbalance of power between employer and employee. Wages do not keep up with inflation so We The People need to intervene.

In case you missed it, they increased minimum wage and those receiving it lost money. So, you are saying that it was necessary to take money away from the poor people?

Originally Posted by spaceman5280

The reason union wages appear to be so high is because they have risen at a rate closer to inflation while non-union wages are pretty much stagnant.

Unions had their place in history, and that day has long since passed. Today they just drive jobs over seas.

Originally Posted by spaceman5280

My local (Spokane) has the lowest wages because we have the smallest market share in the state, plus, we have to carry Northern Idaho's bad economic policies....

In case you haven't noticed tough guy, we are in a boom over here. To a liberal, good growth and people not depending on the government is a bad thing.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Sure but to me the term insinuates making a living. Minimum wage is entry level/surviving at best. A career is a viable long term job. Most anything can turn into a career if there is enough drive in the person.

I've "made a living" doing lots of things, but they certainly weren't the kinds of things I'd want to invest much of my life in doing.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

A neighbor at an old house is a prime example. The dude has been a dishwasher at a local hotel for 25 years now. He gets a raise when minimum wage goes up. Absolutely no drive, no ambition or really much for brains. If his mother hadn't have left him her house and car he'd have nothing at all. His situation is unique simply because he's stayed off the dole but that is far from the norm.

Emphasis added. Not everybody has the capacity for mediocrity.

Dude can either get by on a reasonable minimum wage, or not and get 'gov support.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

I do because there is little gray area in my views. Whether someone stays at a go nowhere job because they're dumb, lazy or scared of change it is all on the person. Contrary to some beliefs there is no boogy man holding people down .

Really? It's 90% grey area to me. We have very little control, we just do the best we can and hope it works out.

The boogy man is real and comes in many forms that aren't always obvious.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I've "made a living" doing lots of things, but they certainly weren't the kinds of things I'd want to invest much of my life in doing.

Same here but most that I did for more than a year we're simply out of convenience not because they were great. I love selling auto parts and I'm really good at it. It doesn't pay worth a damn so I don't do it for a living. It was a fun job, most people that do it for a career barely scrape by unless they move up from the parts counter into the office. The parts counter is the fun place to be so I left the industry rather than hate my job.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Emphasis added. Not everybody has the capacity for mediocrity.

Dude can either get by on a reasonable minimum wage, or not and get 'gov support.

Like I said he's the exception not the rule. If they started drug testing at the hotel he'd be assed out of his job like yesterday's trash.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Really? It's 90% grey area to me. We have very little control, we just do the best we can and hope it works out.

The boogy man is real and comes in many forms that aren't always obvious.

Nope. Black and white.

I had a driver call me at almost 5 am today, he was supposed to be on the road at 4 am headed out on a 5 hour drive. I told him to get to the truck and hit the road, he asked me why I wasn't mad? I said I am but is me screaming and yelling at you going to get the truck there any faster? Nope, hurry up and get on the road. No excuses, no scapegoats to me. If you screw up own it, don't go looking for the boogy man that's holding you back.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by Sarra

If you think this is fine, then that's fine with me. Just be sure you explain to your great grand children why they can't have nice things when they complain to you about not being able to afford food.

Parents want reasons to justify themselves. I have seen many people justify their laid back or unsuccessful results of life

If we understand the hidden effects of capitalism, then these parents can't be blamed, because everyone in a capitalist society is been played with.

Reality is that, capitalism is good and bad.. Its good if REGULATED with an iron fist, but that does not happen. So that creates an environment X

Environment X = animals harm each other physically, but humans within a civilisation harm and degrade each other on a mental level. Deep rooted HUNTER instincts within us. This leads to humans using other humans for their advantage in an unjustified way.

[Sarra]

Originally Posted by The Violator

If you brag about leaching off the system, then piss and moan you cannot make a decent living, thats all you. Imagine for a minute you owned the shit decisions in your life that you do not have enough skills to earn a decent living.

Here's the funny part about this. At the time I was 'gaming' the system (remember, I got fired from a decent job for no reason, to begin with), I was taking care of my disabled partner. A person who was unable to work, and had been denied disability multiple times. A person who now, after I paid the divorce, and I paid for the bankruptcy that wiped out $50k in medical debts, is living with her parents, and is unable to hold a job, make income, or get disability. And she's still accumulating medical bills, that they cannot pay, and Obamacare won't pay for, because stupid people are in charge all over the place. That's money the family can't spend on stuff like a new car, or medical appointments for her nieces.

I supported someone for 2 years on unemployment, in an economy that was contracting. I went 2 weeks of each month without food, and had a car that a bank was trying to repossess, and it wasn't fun, and I didn't just sit around and play video games all the time (okay, some of the time, but that's another story).

And quite honestly, I did what they wanted me to do, which was put in job applications each week. I did do that. And when I got a job offer, I took it.

If my ex had been able to get disability, then none of that would have been necessary in the first place. We would have been able to survive on that until I got a job, but that's not even a good thing. She may have lost her disability when I got employed, because most GOP states do that. You ever seen someone making $14k a year support someone that incurs $3k a month in medical debts?

It wasn't my fault the economy went to hell, and it wasn't my fault a jerkwad decided that firing me would be funny (let's just say, that guy is no longer running the business; he got sued by his business partner, and counter sued until they both went broke from lawyer fees).

You want to talk about gaming the system, maybe you should look into how hard it is to get disability. My best friend is legally blind, and still was denied disability. Oh, right, you're one of the people who thinks that disabled people just magically can get better and become normal, if you take all of their support away.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Sarra

Here's the funny part about this. At the time I was 'gaming' the system (remember, I got fired from a decent job for no reason, to begin with), I was taking care of my disabled partner. A person who was unable to work, and had been denied disability multiple times. A person who now, after I paid the divorce, and I paid for the bankruptcy that wiped out $50k in medical debts, is living with her parents, and is unable to hold a job, make income, or get disability. And she's still accumulating medical bills, that they cannot pay, and Obamacare won't pay for, because stupid people are in charge all over the place. That's money the family can't spend on stuff like a new car, or medical appointments for her nieces.

I supported someone for 2 years on unemployment, in an economy that was contracting. I went 2 weeks of each month without food, and had a car that a bank was trying to repossess, and it wasn't fun, and I didn't just sit around and play video games all the time (okay, some of the time, but that's another story).

And quite honestly, I did what they wanted me to do, which was put in job applications each week. I did do that. And when I got a job offer, I took it.

If my ex had been able to get disability, then none of that would have been necessary in the first place. We would have been able to survive on that until I got a job, but that's not even a good thing. She may have lost her disability when I got employed, because most GOP states do that. You ever seen someone making $14k a year support someone that incurs $3k a month in medical debts?

It wasn't my fault the economy went to hell, and it wasn't my fault a jerkwad decided that firing me would be funny (let's just say, that guy is no longer running the business; he got sued by his business partner, and counter sued until they both went broke from lawyer fees).

You want to talk about gaming the system, maybe you should look into how hard it is to get disability. My best friend is legally blind, and still was denied disability. Oh, right, you're one of the people who thinks that disabled people just magically can get better and become normal, if you take all of their support away.

I know far more about disability than I'll explain to you as well as how much fun it is to support someone that cannot support themselves on a small amount of income. Welcome to my life a few years ago let's say. I could have gone bankrupt but instead worked with everyone and busted my ass harder than ever at work to move up in pay and title. It's just what you're supposed to do instead of pointing fingers and crying.

Instead of whining about your problems you should have actually tried to find another job. I know it's not as fun as jerking off playing video games but it's just what adults or at least semi mature people do.