* Is my rig legal ? *

[kaetwo]

Good question.

Personally I would judge front and rear bumpers differently on each class. For example the Street Class would need a bumper attached to the frame and should be more substantial.

However on the Trail Class, the bumpers could be much less substantial, mostly constiting of small stingers, minamalistic rear bumpers to reduce departure angle etc...

Thinking along those lines, I would say Griz's bumpers would count. I also feel that your's should count as well Tim.

Just my warped look on it

[hotwheels000]

I would give Griz front and rear bumper points,he can remove the bumper and still have a structually sound machine.On yours Tim, the rear bumper seams to be more of a tailgate/taillight braket kinda thing.It seams to tie the upper and lower tubes together for structural reasons.Dont get me wrong , it is really good looking but it is more part of your tube frame than a bumper.( I know, coming from me, huh)

I Like K2's thinking,yet under this years rules there is no real difference in the rules for the 2 classes except for max tire size and point requirments.I would love to see the 2 classes have a bigger difference in the build guidelines next year.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Oh Chris, blurring the lines a little bit I see. Not sure about the rear bumper. There was an issue last year with my truck, and I haven't been getting rear bumper points since last May.

Do you think that you should get them with yours but I shouldn't ? Just wondering.



As far as your front, it's kind of a bumper. What does everyone else think about these bumpers? Should Chris get -5 for both of them?

Honest opinion? As Devlin said, I can cut off my bumpers and the chassis will still be 100% structurally sound.
In the top down view of the rear bumper you can see where the rear kickers, side bars, and rear shock mounts, all end at the purple horizontal tube and the supports go down to the coil spring mounts and frame. In fact you can see that I did cut the whole rear end off and welded the rear bumper on. The only thing tying it into the chassis, and not just the rear of the frame, is the the two bars going to where the kickers end. Those are just for bumper support and dont carry any chassis loads. Desert trucks use the same design so that faster trucks can "bump" them and tell them to get out of the way.

For the front bumper I could cut off the lower bar that the winch mount is welded to, and the vertical bars in front of the winch plate, and the chassis would still be structurally sound. I see no difference between your front bumper and mine, although the front bumper is not the item up for debate.

I think that is what should define a bumper. A structure that is connected to the main frame of the chassis but is not necessary for structural integrity of the chassis and suspension. It must also protrude beyond the main chassis; either to both sides or forward of the chassis/frame for a front bumper or rearward of the chassis/frame for a rear bumper.

What is it that you call your rear bumper? Just the flat piece of sheet metal brazed to the rear tube or does it include the tube?
If it is just the plate I wouldn't call that a bumper, I'd just call it a tow point.
If it includes the tube then cutting out the tube changes the structural integrity of the chassis. right?





So if you feel that your rear bumper should count for points how do you feel about the rear bumper on Pepe?

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Honest opinion? As Devlin said, I can cut off my bumpers and the chassis will still be 100% structurally sound.
In the top down view of the rear bumper you can see where the rear kickers, side bars, and rear shock mounts, all end at the purple horizontal tube and the supports go down to the coil spring mounts and frame. In fact you can see that I did cut the whole rear end off and welded the rear bumper on. The only thing tying it into the chassis, and not just the rear of the frame, is the the two bars going to where the kickers end. Those are just for bumper support and dont carry any chassis loads. Desert trucks use the same design so that faster trucks can "bump" them and tell them to get out of the way.

For the front bumper I could cut off the lower bar that the winch mount is welded to, and the vertical bars in front of the winch plate, and the chassis would still be structurally sound. I see no difference between your front bumper and mine, although the front bumper is not the item up for debate.

I think that is what should define a bumper. A structure that is connected to the main frame of the chassis but is not necessary for structural integrity of the chassis and suspension. It must also protrude beyond the main chassis; either to both sides or forward of the chassis/frame for a front bumper or rearward of the chassis/frame for a rear bumper.

What is it that you call your rear bumper? Just the flat piece of sheet metal brazed to the rear tube or does it include the tube?
If it is just the plate I wouldn't call that a bumper, I'd just call it a tow point.
If it includes the tube then cutting out the tube changes the structural integrity of the chassis. right?

So here's a picture of the rear of the EB before I brazed on the rear "bumper". It's not a very good pic, but the tubing that is the structural part of the chassis is under the bumper. The bumper incorporates the taillight buckets and a winch/pull point, and even extends past the tubework, so I guess according to your definition, it would be a bumper.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

So if you feel that your rear bumper should count for points how do you feel about the rear bumper on Pepe?

That would be called a tow point for the truck pull in the TTC .

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

So here's a picture of the rear of the EB before I brazed on the rear "bumper". It's not a very good pic, but the tubing that is the structural part of the chassis is under the bumper. The bumper incorporates the taillight buckets and a winch/pull point, and even extends past the tubework, so I guess according to your definition, it would be a bumper.

I understand how it was built. So you are saying that the flat piece of steel is a bumper because it holds the tail lights and has a tow point.

If Pinch brazes a flat plate with a tow point and taillight holders on his Trail rig will he then get bumper points?
Same with Pepe? I get bumper points if I add tail light holders?

[skid]

One view, a bumper's there to protect a body. Some of them there's not much body to protect.

[madscrambler]

Well first off I have the Mellow Yellow As i count it up it sets at 34 points.
Hard body -7
Interior -5
winch -3
LED's -2 (will be added later)
Bumpers -5
6 point Cage-4
sliders -2
Chassy mounted Servo -5
Acc. -3(will be added Later)

I'm not too worried about this one..

My CJ buggy is setting at 31 points I think (my rear bumper was added after I ran it half the season so If that helps
Full Tube chassy -8
Interior -5
Winch -3
LED's -2
Bumpers front and rear -5
Chassy mounted servo -5
acc. -3
Tube fenders front and rear????
Total without Tube fenders 31


CJ
Leafs front and rear -5
Interior -5
Winch -3
LED's-2(will be added)
Bumpers -5
6 piont Cage -4
Sliders -2
Chassy mouted servo -5
Acc. -3
Wasn't sure obout 6 point or full tube chassy The cage is welded to the frame.
Sets at 34 points.

As for the rear bumper rule. I think its gay that we have to have a certian type on a rig. that the rules state "You would see being Trailered to the trail" Just my opinion. I spent many long hours building my scalers for someone to say thats not a rear bumper or not.

[ecoli]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Can't see your rear bumper, but everything else looks good. That fire extinguisher puts you at -30 .

Thanks Tim. Rear bumper is similar to the front, just wider across. Yay for cheap bungee strapped on accessories!

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I understand how it was built. So you are saying that the flat piece of steel is a bumper because it holds the tail lights and has a tow point.

If Pinch brazes a flat plate with a tow point and taillight holders on his Trail rig will he then get bumper points?
Same with Pepe? I get bumper points if I add tail light holders?

Ah, I'm just trying to cause trouble you guys....I don't really care if I get points for the bumper or not. Just trying to make people think......

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by madscrambler

Well first off I have the Mellow Yellow As i count it up it sets at 34 points.
Hard body -7
Interior -5
winch -3
LED's -2 (will be added later)
Bumpers -5
6 point Cage-4
sliders -2
Chassy mounted Servo -5
Acc. -3(will be added Later)

I'm not too worried about this one..

My CJ buggy is setting at 31 points I think (my rear bumper was added after I ran it half the season so If that helps
Full Tube chassy -8
Interior -5
Winch -3
LED's -2
Bumpers front and rear -5
Chassy mounted servo -5
acc. -3
Tube fenders front and rear????
Total without Tube fenders 31


CJ
Leafs front and rear -5
Interior -5
Winch -3
LED's-2(will be added)
Bumpers -5
6 piont Cage -4
Sliders -2
Chassy mouted servo -5
Acc. -3
Wasn't sure obout 6 point or full tube chassy The cage is welded to the frame.
Sets at 34 points.

As for the rear bumper rule. I think its gay that we have to have a certian type on a rig. that the rules state "You would see being Trailered to the trail" Just my opinion. I spent many long hours building my scalers for someone to say thats not a rear bumper or not.

Lance, I'm not seeing much in the way of bumpers on your rigs either. I'd say that the only issue is the CJ Buggy being a 28 point truck, the others are still 30 point trucks without rear bumpers.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Ah, I'm just trying to cause trouble you guys....I don't really care if I get points for the bumper or not. Just trying to make people think......

I'm just trying to get you to give a definition of a bumper, why yours is a bumper and Guido's isn't a bumper.

It's going to have a flat plate on it just like JR's so that should make it a bumper right? I don't need the rear bumper points on Guido anyway.

[War Pig]

I guess with a tube chassis truck, whether something is a rear bumper or not can be interpreted too many ways. Maybe we should rewrite the rules next year to eliminate rear bumper points for tube chassis trucks? That would take all the guessing out of it. Plus, if you have a tube chassis you are probably close to max points anyways, so the points wouldn't be as important as say a guy with an SCX-10 with a lexan body. Just a thought?

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by War Pig

I guess with a tube chassis truck, whether something is a rear bumper or not can be interpreted too many ways. Maybe we should rewrite the rules next year to eliminate rear bumper points for tube chassis trucks? That would take all the guessing out of it. Plus, if you have a tube chassis you are probably close to max points anyways, so the points wouldn't be as important as say a guy with an SCX-10 with a lexan body. Just a thought?

It most certainly does become an area for debate.

Honestly, if it deosn't stick out past the tires when viewing the vehicle from the left or right side is it really a bumper? If you have 90 degrees, or more, of approach or departure angle the "bumper" is not functioning as a bumper.

[madscrambler]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

It most certainly does become an area for debate.

Honestly, if it deosn't stick out past the tires when viewing the vehicle from the left or right side is it really a bumper? If you have 90 degrees, or more, of approach or departure angle the "bumper" is not functioning as a bumper.

I agree. Sorry for mixing up the pot but I do think most rigs in this class would in real life not have a fully fictional rear bumper. You guys are awsome can't wait for this event it will be fun no matter what.

[ae racer]

IMO,
guido's should be considered a rear bumper
the bruggy shouldnt be a bumper
the 3 jeeps dont look like they have a bumper
again, i may be wrong.. my $.02

[XSRCdesign]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

It most certainly does become an area for debate.

Honestly, if it deosn't stick out past the tires when viewing the vehicle from the left or right side is it really a bumper? If you have 90 degrees, or more, of approach or departure angle the "bumper" is not functioning as a bumper.

it is if I ram my stinger into the rear of your truck

Id call Guido's rear a bumper, Pepe, Tim's rig and a few of those other tubers, probably not..

[team3six]

OK so here is my questions.

Street class entry
Axial terminator Honcho



According to the rules:
-5 = 3D Interior w/ driver
-3 = Function spare wheel
-3 = Function winch
-2 = front and rear LED's
-5 = Chassis mounted servo

-15 points.

So my question is for the Bumpers (must be attached to the frame)
1. As I have been told the rules read how I define them, so according to the rules as not being specific as to how they are attached, I will assume that Bolt on is legal. If this is the case I have a metal front bumper, Do I get the -2 for that?
2. Minor features. I have Metal rock sliders, Do I receive the -1 for that?
3. Minor features. I have a tire rack, Do I receive the -1 for that?
4. Full features. I have a tube bed, Do I get -1 for that?
5. on the Accs. It reads I must have eight pieces, Is that correct? and are scale weapons, GPS's, Stereo's, things like that concidered scale accs.?

Trail class entry
ARMY of T.W.O. KOH rig


According to the rules:
-10 = Full tube chassis
-5 = 3D Interior w/ driver
-3 = Function winch
-2 = front and rear LED's
-5 = Chassis mounted servo
-2 = tube light rack

-27 points

1. on the Accs. It reads I must have eight pieces, Is that correct? and are scale weapons, GPS's, Stereo's, things like that concidered scale accs.?

Im trying to see if there are points that I missed or can collect on for each truck to bring them to -30 each.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by exesivefire

it is if I ram my stinger into the rear of your truck

Sassy! I like it.

[Just Zach]

Does this fix my tire carrier points on my Unimog?

[4VRYNG]

Originally Posted by team3six

OK so here is my questions.

Street class entry
Axial terminator Honcho



According to the rules:
-5 = 3D Interior w/ driver
-3 = Function spare wheel
-3 = Function winch
-2 = front and rear LED's
-5 = Chassis mounted servo

-15 points.

So my question is for the Bumpers (must be attached to the frame)
1. As I have been told the rules read how I define them, so according to the rules as not being specific as to how they are attached, I will assume that Bolt on is legal. If this is the case I have a metal front bumper, Do I get the -2 for that?
2. Minor features. I have Metal rock sliders, Do I receive the -1 for that?
3. Minor features. I have a tire rack, Do I receive the -1 for that?
4. Full features. I have a tube bed, Do I get -1 for that?
5. on the Accs. It reads I must have eight pieces, Is that correct? and are scale weapons, GPS's, Stereo's, things like that concidered scale accs.?

Trail class entry
ARMY of T.W.O. KOH rig


According to the rules:
-10 = Full tube chassis
-5 = 3D Interior w/ driver
-3 = Function winch
-2 = front and rear LED's
-5 = Chassis mounted servo
-2 = tube light rack

-27 points

1. on the Accs. It reads I must have eight pieces, Is that correct? and are scale weapons, GPS's, Stereo's, things like that concidered scale accs.?

Im trying to see if there are points that I missed or can collect on for each truck to bring them to -30 each.

I think the "eight pieces" refers to the # of pieces of firewood to be able to get an accessory point for having firewood.