Holmes Torquemaster, bad luck?

[EddieO]

You are comparing completely different motors. A HH 27t, in any form is going to destroy an axial 27t in power output. You probably had it overgeared anyways, but by your own admission you don't really get on it much. Overgeared motors won't blow up if you are easy on them.....

Being just off a tooth can be too much for some motors....and they will blow up. In racing (same principles apply here), we would see motors of the same type need different gearing just because motor A would be more RPMish than Motor B....scenarios of up to 11 teeth difference(64 pitch) were not unheard of. Even in 48 pitch, we would see 2-3 teeth in some cases.

Long and the short of it, the motor was overgeared. While there may of been binding or what, all that would do is speed up the fate that awaited the motor.


Later EddieO

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Something isn't quite making sense to me. I have run 18/87 and even 20/87 on the Axial 27T on 2S and 16/87 (maybe 18/87 too) on HH 35T on 2s and 3s. I've never smoked a motor, granted my WFO is in short bursts but still I run for hours in a day. I finally gave up on the Axial motor dieing and just bought the HH cause I wanted to.
My point is there might be something else going on here. The gearing isn't too far off. I'm far from an expert, but something doesn't add up. Would the timing or rotation have any bearing on the failure?

[04zrx]

bigstu: I get it I need different gears It is all about ratios. Question: I burned up my motor because the gearing is to high and it is to much work for the motor to move the rig? So if I get my ratio say closer to 5:1 and run it wide open that would not be as hard on it? Is this correct? Where do I go to get gears? Never mind I can find lower pinion gear.

I really am trying and everyone is helping, "Thank you"

[Charlie-III]

I use Tower Hobbies for a lot of "generic stuff" since I'm a member and get shipping deals.
I try to deal with my LHS as much as possible.

There is a "general sweet spot" in motor gearing for most rigs, seems like ~5:1 in crawlers is good. It does NOT matter the gear pitch, just the ratio.

Too tight a pinion/spur gear mesh can overload a motor (usually a short life)
Too much binding in the drivetrain can overload a motor (usually a short life)

I agree with Eddie & John, I used to race "spec class" 12th & 10th pan cars. The motors were all epoxy sealed motors (no comm cutting, no timing adjustments.....welllll....not "really").
First thing we did was to break them in and run them on our dyno.
Some were "torque motors" others were "rev motors". We used them suited to the course (oval VS. road course) and adjusted gearing to match.
Keep in mind, we STILL had issues with making the race time.....frikkin kids today have it wayyyyy easier......
A good set-up meant we did well in the race, then the NiCD/NiMH pack dumped on the "victory lap".

[04zrx]

ok I have 12,13,14,15and 16t pinions coming so I can experiment. I'm learning ....... It was much easier to get those pinion gears than attempt to find larger spur gears.
Question: How should I set the mesh ? I put a piece of paper between the two...dunno if that is correct. There is no binding in the drivetrain.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by 04zrx

OK I have 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16t pinions coming so I can experiment.

Cool.

I will not even try to guess the 48p pinion ranges I have for carpet & dirt cars. I usually have 2 or 3 of everything........sigh....

The "smaller the pitch" the more likely it can deal with crap in the gear mesh, the "larger the pitch", the finer you can gear overall....

[bigstu]

Originally Posted by 04zrx

I really am trying and everyone is helping, "Thank you"

You're welcome. I apologize if you thought I was fired up. Just trying to make it simple to understand, which can be a challenge some times. Too many thoughts in my head. LOL...

With the 87/18 gearing combo, you were at 4.8333 to 1 gear ratio.
That is pretty close to 5 to 1.
If you want to run a lower turn motor, you're going to have to go much higher.

My advice, and again this is what I would do. I'd get a 90-93 tooth Spur gear and 3 pinions 12, 14, and Maybe a 16 tooth.

93/12 = 7.75 90/12 = 7.50
93/14 = 6.64 90/14 = 6.43
93/16 = 5.81 90/16 = 5.63
93/18 = 5.17 90/18 = 5.00 - You already have a 18t pinion..

You can see that with these combos, you get a gear ratio that is right around a 7.5, then a combo that is about a 6.5, then a combo that is a 5.5, then a combo that is a 5.0.

You know the something close to 5.0 = ...
So I wouldn't go any lower than that.

Go to Tower Hobbies.
Here is what you need.
One of these: TowerHobbies.com | Robinson Racing Super Spur Gear 48P 90T AX10
Or MY choice, one of these: TowerHobbies.com | Robinson Racing Super Spur Gear 48P 93T AX10

One of these: TowerHobbies.com | Robinson Racing Pinion Gear 48P 12T
One of these: TowerHobbies.com | Robinson Racing Pinion Gear 48P 14T
and One of These: TowerHobbies.com | Robinson Racing Pinion Gear 48P 16T

If you buy one of all of those it is $25.23 + shipping of your choice.

[bigstu]

Originally Posted by 04zrx

Question: How should I set the mesh ? I put a piece of paper between the two...dunno if that is correct. There is no binding in the drivetrain.

I've used a piece of paper in the past, it worked good, just make sure it isn't SUPER thick paper..
The way I set all my pinions is by feel.
Just a little separation of the teeth.
It's usually just enough so when you hold the pinion you can hear that spur thump back and forth, or see one move on the other, VERY slightly.

Here is a good one:
HorizonHobby.com How-To: Understanding RC Gearing - YouTube

Also, check to make sure you don't have a drive shaft, or anythign else binding in the drive train. Pull the pinion off the motor and roll the tires, etc. If it stops right away or you can feel resistance, there is a problem. And don't be afraid to push the spur gear with your finger and see if there is resistance there. Again, if any, there is a problem.
I smoked a Brood motor by not noticing that I had a driveshaft ourdrive that was rubbing on full extension. As soon as the axle flexed out, it bound up the drive train. Smoked the motor in less than 5 minutes.
Something as simple as a trans housing being too tight or a set screw that loosened up can cause drag and smoke a motor too..

[Jus]

I set my gear mesh by feel. I rock the spur back and forth and make sure I can feel just a little back and forth movement on 3 different locations on the spur and tighten the motor down then check it again to be sure.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by bigstu

I've used a piece of paper in the past, it worked good, just make sure it isn't SUPER thick paper..
The way I set all my pinions is by feel.
Just a little separation of the teeth.
It's usually just enough so when you hold the pinion you can hear that spur thump back and forth, or see one move on the other, VERY slightly.

Here is a good one:
HorizonHobby.com How-To: Understanding RC Gearing - YouTube

Also, check to make sure you don't have a drive shaft, or anything else binding in the drive train. Pull the pinion off the motor and roll the tires, etc. If it stops right away or you can feel resistance, there is a problem. And don't be afraid to push the spur gear with your finger and see if there is resistance there. Again, if any, there is a problem.
I smoked a Brood motor by not noticing that I had a driveshaft outdrive that was rubbing on full extension. As soon as the axle flexed out, it bound up the drive train. Smoked the motor in less than 5 minutes.
Something as simple as a trans housing being too tight or a set screw that loosened up can cause drag and smoke a motor too..

Great post...thanks!

Keep in mind, not all spur or pinions are "concentric", thus to really check gear mesh, you need to spin the gears and check in multiple spots. Set "almost "0"" gear lash in the tight spots so you don't strip gears in the looser spots.

[04zrx]

Spur gears ordered! Thanks for doing all the leg work for me.

[505cat]

Originally Posted by 04zrx

I want to be clear: I'm positive that my HH motor is a good motor just discouraged cuz I am not having good luck (my fault?) with it. I'll send it back to John today and all the pieces of the comm and let him do what he can, we will resolve this I'm sure.

I will get some new gears as it seems that is the culprit of this motors demise. I honestly do have one complaint about Holmes Hobbies here it is: I have sent several e mails and no reply....there isn't a phone # either. When you buy a product and it breaks you want to be able to call someone, well..... I can't call anyone! You here on the forum are all I have and I'm sure John will chime in here shortly (HOPEFULLY)!!!
thanks for listening.

I have the same complaint. Going through a similar situation right now and no response. I have purchase several items from him with great communication until now!

[04zrx]

Update: John sent me an e mail and is offering to exchange my burnt motor for a brushless motor. I accepted the offer and will be getting a 13.5 BL Trail master. John feels that I won't be happy with brushed and this will happen again if I stay brushed. I'll take his advice and go brushless. In my book that is standing behind your product! "Thank you John Holmes" I will continue to use Holmes Hobbies for my future motor purchases.