Holmes Torquemaster, bad luck?

[04zrx]

So hoping someone can shed some light here. I recently purchased a Holmes TM 27t motor for my Ridgecrest. I used it for maybe 3 battery packs, and It was badly in need of brushes and the comm needed truing. I get it back from Jon and install it in my Rig 18t pinion and stock spur(87t). I'm running it for 15 min and it stops.... white smoke! I really don't think I was hard on this motor but when I pulled it out of the rig and looked at the motor the comm came undone! the best way to describe it is the metal that makes up the comm came off the Armature.

Who has some insight as to what is up with this motor, so far I'm not to impressed with it...Is it something I'm doing ?

[808DA6]

I'd take pics and send them to HH.

Have you checked for binding in the drivetrain? What esc and type of batt are you using?

I've had a few Crawl Masters without any issues.

-Brian

[Jus]

Everything mechanical can and WILL fail at some point no matter the quality, so although it definitely sucks I'm sure Holmes will take care of you. They are great motors so don't be discouraged.

[Phins Fan]

Ive got a HH 45T Ive been bashing on for the better part of the winter running on 2S with no issues. I bought it used. Are you supposed to "break in" the HH motors when new? Maybe not breaking them in is causing the failures.

[huskerfan406]

Originally Posted by Phins Fan

Ive got a HH 45T Ive been bashing on for the better part of the winter running on 2S with no issues. I bought it used. Are you supposed to "break in" the HH motors when new? Maybe not breaking them in is causing the failures.

Holmes motors are broken in! They are broken in at the plant!

I would message Jon holmes I think he will help you out!
He's a great guy as far as my dealings with him!

[EddieO]

Sounds overgeared.......and in most cases I've seen overgeared trucks get treated like race trucks.

Later EddieO

[Charlie-III]

From what I've seen/read, motors from Holmes or Br00d are already broken in. A little runtime (discounting the "Internet, I have to do a water break-in" crap....yes, crap....) will make sure the motor/motors are ready to go.

Every vendor has a bad motor, let them know and see if they take care of you.
The likely answer is, yes, they will take care of you.

Make sure you list:
Rig
Use (comp, bashing, fun run, trailing)
Battery voltage
Gearing (pinion & spur)

[bigstu]

Were you running it on 4s? as you talked about in this forum?
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial...n-gearing.html

18/87 for gearing? correct? Aparrently you didn't listen to this advice from the same forum you started...

Originally Posted by bigstu

Start LOW. 12-93 to 15-93. Do a typical run. While running the vehicle, use an IR Temperature gun. Something like this.

Through the run check the temperature. When it gets up to about 130-140 it means you are getting close to the limit of your gearing.

You can also use the finger touch method, if you can touch the motor with your finger and count to 5, slowly, you're good on temp..

Remember, if you gear it for running at high speeds on cement, and then use the same gearing to go rock crawling or hill climbing, you're going to be risking a smoked motor..

Were you running it on cement or crawling it on some rocks?

And you didn't read this thread, Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

Sounds like you over geared it, ran it for what I would call a long time, and didn't check the temps to make sure you weren't damaging the motor.

[cox308]

FYI HH motors are not all broken in. Only HH HAND WOUND motors are broken in at the factory. The rest need to be done yourself.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by cox308

FYI HH motors are not all broken in. Only HH HAND WOUND motors are broken in at the factory. The rest need to be done yourself.

News to me.......I've always read/heard all Holmes & Br00d motors were broken in. Yes, they may need a bit more to be 100%, but the basics are done before shipping.

Not saying I'm wrong, just saying.

[AddictedtoRC1]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

News to me.......I've always read/heard all Holmes & Br00d motors were broken in. Yes, they may need a bit more to be 100%, but the basics are done before shipping.

Not saying I'm wrong, just saying.

It's news because it's dead wrong. It's not just handwounds that are already broken in.

[EddieO]

Every motor I sell comes broken in, machine or handwound.....doesn't matter the model or what, they don't leave the shop until they go through my break in and check system. No additional break in should be needed.

I know some of the HH machine wound stuff is, as I've replaced arms in brand new motors that were never run....and they were clearly broken in, those were Expert models people won as a prize and wanted a handwound arm installed.

Later EddieO

[04zrx]

Originally Posted by bigstu

Were you running it on 4s?

Sounds like you over geared it, ran it for what I would call a long time, and didn't check the temps to make sure you weren't damaging the motor.

Actually no i was checking the temp, and no i didn't run it on 4s. I was playing on the driveway, snow and some dirt. I wasn't straight out bashing either. I was trying to be carefull, that didn't work. I was using a 18t pinion (smallest my lhs had). I bought other spur gears but they were a 78t and 81t, so I thought staying with stock spur would be better. When I checked the temp it was 121 degrees (right after she smoked).

[04zrx]

Originally Posted by EddieO

Every motor I sell comes broken in, machine or handwound.....doesn't matter the model or what, they don't leave the shop until they go through my break in and check system. No additional break in should be needed.

I know some of the HH machine wound stuff is, as I've replaced arms in brand new motors that were never run....and they were clearly broken in, those were Expert models people won as a prize and wanted a handwound arm installed.

Later EddieO

Eddie, Luckly I purchased a Onslought 21T from you and was able to install that motor, so far so good. I would gladly take any advice from you on how to keep this motor running strong. The smallest pinion I have is 18t and stock spur 87t I have only run 2s in it but want (if it's ok)to run 3s. So far your motor is nice and smooth I am pleased.

[04zrx]

I want to be clear: I'm positive that my HH motor is a good motor just discouraged cuz I am not having good luck (my fault?) with it. I'll send it back to John today and all the pieces of the comm and let him do what he can, we will resolve this I'm sure.

I will get some new gears as it seems that is the culprit of this motors demise. I honestly do have one complaint about Holmes Hobbies here it is: I have sent several e mails and no reply....there isn't a phone # either. When you buy a product and it breaks you want to be able to call someone, well..... I can't call anyone! You here on the forum are all I have and I'm sure John will chime in here shortly (HOPEFULLY)!!!
thanks for listening.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Email your way.

Sounds like you have a heavy throtle finger, and you are overgeared. bigstu's gearing recommendation is where you need to be. Otherwise you should just go brushless. If you heat up a motor so fast that the can isn't even above 121f but the comm explodes, your wants will not be fulfilled by brushed motors.


I wish I had a phone number, but I am one employee short. The last time I had one it was about 6 hours a day of calls, and I can't handle that without another worker.

[EddieO]

You will definitely wanna gear even lower for a 21t Onslaught. As you go down in winds, the motors make more RPM and less torque, but more power overall. (typically).

The above gearing guide posted is a good start. You should always monitors temps though as you run. I would suggest NOT running the truck until you get some smaller pinions/bigger spurs.

Its a good idea to blow the motor out with air every so often, especially if ran in nasty areas. As you notice a decrease in performance, you will want to rebuild the motor. (new brushes and comm cut, full cleaning).

Later EddieO

Originally Posted by 04zrx

Eddie, Luckly I purchased a Onslought 21T from you and was able to install that motor, so far so good. I would gladly take any advice from you on how to keep this motor running strong. The smallest pinion I have is 18t and stock spur 87t I have only run 2s in it but want (if it's ok)to run 3s. So far your motor is nice and smooth I am pleased.

[04zrx]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Email your way.

Sounds like you have a heavy throtle finger, and you are overgeared. bigstu's gearing recommendation is where you need to be. Otherwise you should just go brushless. If you heat up a motor so fast that the can isn't even above 121f but the comm explodes, your wants will not be fulfilled by brushed motors.


I wish I had a phone number, but I am one employee short. The last time I had one it was about 6 hours a day of calls, and I can't handle that without another worker.

thank you John,
I will have to do a little more research on gearing then because I don't think the Ridgecrest will physically take a larger spur gear. I can go with a 32Pitch and hopefully get a better ratio. I'll drop the motor in the mail to you today as I said earlier.
This motor can handle 3s (with proper gearing) right?

I want the proper set up that I can run and not worry constantly about. I want to be perfectly clear: I know it is my fault and not a reflection of your workmanship that was the demise of this motor. I just discouraged that's all.....

it can only get better.

[bigstu]

I am 100% sure the Ridgecrest will take a larger spur gear.
It uses the same cover as the Wraith, and I had a 93t spur gear under my wraith cover. It required some trimming, but it would fit.

With an 87t spur you should be able to go as low as 14t on the pinion and not have any problems getting the proper gear mesh.

Here is a VERY simple calculation.
Spur Gear Teeth, divided by Pinion teeth.
So, in your case.
87/18 = 4.83333
going down to a 14t pinion
87/14 = 6.2142

So what does this mean. With an 18t pinion and an 87 tooth spur, the input shaft on your transmission goes around one time and the motor goes around 4.83 times.
With a 14t pinion and a 87t spur, the motor goes around 6.2 times for every turn of the trans input shaft.
So the motor has more mechanical advantage with the 14t pinion and doesn't have to work so hard. Back to that torque again.

Now what happens if you go to 93/12 ???
93/12 = 7.75 See how it works. More motor RPMs means more mechanical advantage, lower temps, increased run time, but slower speeds.

so, what happens if you go to 32 pitch gears.
typical ratio, 56/12..
56/12 = 4.66666
The ratio with your 87/18 combo was 4.8333

So guess what changing to 32 pitch does for you. Another smoked motor.

[Big Daddy]

Something isn't quite making sense to me. I have run 18/87 and even 20/87 on the Axial 27T on 2S and 16/87 (maybe 18/87 too) on HH 35T on 2s and 3s. I've never smoked a motor, granted my WFO is in short bursts but still I run for hours in a day. I finally gave up on the Axial motor dieing and just bought the HH cause I wanted to.
My point is there might be something else going on here. The gearing isn't too far off. I'm far from an expert, but something doesn't add up. Would the timing or rotation have any bearing on the failure?