Ebay motor OEM for Brood?

[justinart24]

Sorry if this is off topic but I have searched the forum and no luck...does anyone got a link to the BEC thread?.... I got a new setup and don't know if I need one.

Thanks in advance!

Justin,

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by whitrzac

China is great at copying things. Way back when RC-monster came up with a 1/8 center diff that had a slipper clutch built in for E-buggy conversions. It was something that he worked on for months/years.

3 months after it was released you could buy one on fleebay for 1/3 the price. I don't recall there being any quality issues with the china knockoff ether..

People seem to forget that china is one of the world powers, complete with a space station, satellites, and tech on par with our own. Apple makes their phones there and so does Samsung.
If china wants to make something well they can.

[whitrzac]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

People seem to forget that china is one of the world powers, complete with a space station, satellites, and tech on par with our own. Apple makes their phones there and so does Samsung.
If china wants to make something well they can.

They can, they also have no copyright laws or protections for outside companies.

They also copy just about everything they get their hands on.

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by whitrzac

They can, they also have no copyright laws or protections for outside companies.

They also copy just about everything they get their hands on.

Not saying its right, but if I was 1 billion strong and I wanted to destroy a foreign powers economy thats exactly how I would do it.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by whitrzac

They also copy just about everything they get their hands on.

Well now that's not true. Do they copy a lot? Yes. But do they have their own good inventions and good products? Yes, indeed.

[nedmo]

Originally Posted by EddieO

I'll use a computer comparison for ya, so its simple. Say Nvidia makes a video card, comes in a few versions with only difference being the clock speed on the chip. Chip A and Chip B look exactly a like, buried underneath heatsinks and the like....but Nvidia says B is faster than A...does that make them still the same because they look alike and have similar parts through out?

As stated above, the stator in my motor uses a higher grade of lamination steel. Its more expensive because of that, it however looks no different to the naked eye. My rotor uses a different grade of magnet with a higher temp rating. Can't tell the difference by looking, as once the magnets are bonded to the shaft, they are sealed with a plating....which is the same regardless of magnet type.

Sensor board is not coated either....mine is during assembly by me.

But yup, they are 100% the same.

Later EddieO

Hey Eddie,

Im glad this guys has posted up about this as if he hadn't, I would never have known you produce sensored motors.

Im keen to get a new motor for my TH as the quicrun 10.5t is just redicluous fast.

How do you rate the "waterproofness" of your eradicator motors?

Cheers
ned

[EddieO]

Like all brushless motors, I think water resistant is actually the better term. We put conformal coating on the sensor boards....the cans on the Eradicator and Vigor lines are fairly sealed up and do not have adjustable timing, so less ways for water to get in. The sensor port is something we cannot do anything about, as it is on the user to apply some type of dielectric grease or the like to prevent water from collecting in it. As I always suggest, brushed or brushless....if you dunk it, clean it afterwards....letting it sit wet is typically what kills them in the end.

Later EddieO

[fyrstormer]

The motor can is the least important part of the motor, from a design perspective. All it has to do is hold the stator coils and the bearings. There is zero reason for a premium motor manufacturer to order custom-made motor cans for any reason other than vanity.

Which is to say, the fact that you bought a cheap motor that looks the same as an expensive motor means literally nothing.

[JatoTheRipper]

For the sake of this discussion, let's call Brood a "boutique" motor builder. He doesn't have mass production capabilities like the big names and he custom builds motors for specific application. Other boutique motor builders also use "off the shelf" parts like generic motor cans. I don't see the big deal.

It would probably blow your mind that expensive, hand-wound, brushed motors use cheap, stamped motor cans just like the cheap, disposable brushed motors. I know...I just blew your mind.

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

For the sake of this discussion, let's call Brood a "boutique" motor builder. He doesn't have mass production capabilities like the big names and he custom builds motors for specific application. Other boutique motor builders also use "off the shelf" parts like generic motor cans. I don't see the big deal.

It would probably blow your mind that expensive, hand-wound, brushed motors use cheap, stamped motor cans just like the cheap, disposable brushed motors. I know...I just blew your mind.

Lets not. No reason to place anyone in a position for defending their business decision when there isn't a current complaint.

So here is how this works. I build custom fishing rods. Normally I build high end rods, so let us break down how this works.

Sage sells a rod for $500.00, I can purchase the blank for normally around $250.00.

I then make a custom handle, pick guides that are better, and build it to their(customers) specifications.

I repackage it, I warranty it, and deal with any repairs.

Now it is time to retail it. Wholesale costs, plus 40%, plus my set hourly rate, a cost for consumables, then business needs to turn a profit so I add as much money as the market will bare.

I have now made a value added product. A standard rod at retail, would as a custom rod now retail at $750.00.

Does the rod cast better, yes, will anyone except a top tier caster notice. Nope. Will it fight a fish better, only marginally, does it have better customer service and customer satisfaction. It dam well better...


So there you have it, a $500.00 brand name rod, has $350.00 worth of components, gets turned into a $750.00 rod just because customers want to be able to have someone who in their opinion knows better then the people who mass build a fishing rod.s

Yes I put a sticker on it.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

Lets not. No reason to place anyone in a position for defending their business decision when there isn't a current complaint.

So here is how this works. I build custom fishing rods. Normally I build high end rods, so let us break down how this works.

Sage sells a rod for $500.00, I can purchase the blank for normally around $250.00.

I then make a custom handle, pick guides that are better, and build it to their(customers) specifications.

I repackage it, I warranty it, and deal with any repairs.

Now it is time to retail it. Wholesale costs, plus 40%, plus my set hourly rate, a cost for consumables, then business needs to turn a profit so I add as much money as the market will bare.

I have now made a value added product. A standard rod at retail, would as a custom rod now retail at $750.00.

Does the rod cast better, yes, will anyone except a top tier caster notice. Nope. Will it fight a fish better, only marginally, does it have better customer service and customer satisfaction. It dam well better...


So there you have it, a $500.00 brand name rod, has $350.00 worth of components, gets turned into a $750.00 rod just because customers want to be able to have someone who in their opinion know better then the Chinese build a fishing rod.

Yes I put a sticker on it.

Wait a second...you want to get paid for your labor? That's anti-millennial of you!

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Wait a second...you want to get paid for your labor? That's anti-millennial of you!

Gen X Baby I lived through the Regan years where the bulk of your paycheck went up your nose.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

Gen X Baby I lived through the Regan years where the bulk of your paycheck went up your nose.

Same here. I loved growing up in the 80s. Hard work got you something. I'm anti-millennial thinking AKA socialism.

[Jim85IROC]

I like you two.

[E. Bryant]

[QUOTE=JatoTheRipper;5751766]He doesn't have mass production capabilities like the big names and he custom builds motors for specific application. Other boutique motor builders also use "off the shelf" parts like generic motor cans. I don't see the big deal.

Yeah, most of those "big names" don't have their own mass production capabilities, either. Even the biggest names in RC are nothing close to the size of a tick on a dog's ass in the world of small motor manufacturing, where yearly production is often in a ten-figure range.

It would probably blow your mind that expensive, hand-wound, brushed motors use cheap, stamped motor cans just like the cheap, disposable brushed motors. I know...I just blew your mind.

No blown minds here There are precious few manufacturers of 540 brushed motors for hobby use. That being said, there is some different in the grade and thickness of materials used in those cans (there is no alternating flux in the can of a brushed motor so the material grade isn't quite so important as in the stator of a brushless motor, but it still needs to be capable of carrying flux with minimal field strength - especially since those crappy ferrite magnets didn't have much field strength to begin with!).

FWIW, the stator laminations typically carries the biggest tooling bill of the motor components, at least in the motors with which I'm most accustomed.

[E. Bryant]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

The motor can is the least important part of the motor, from a design perspective. All it has to do is hold the stator coils and the bearings. There is zero reason for a premium motor manufacturer to order custom-made motor cans for any reason other than vanity.

Which is to say, the fact that you bought a cheap motor that looks the same as an expensive motor means literally nothing.

Gotta agree with this - the magnet is the most important component, and the lamination stack is a close second. Everything else is meaningless if these components are not specified with the correct materials and dimensions. And guess what happens to be the most expensive parts of a good motor, and thus offers the best opportunity for cost reduction? Yep, and most every customer cannot see the difference between a "good" rotor or stator and a cheap one. But a fancy machined can sure goes a long ways towards providing the appearance of quality.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I'm quite sure that Eddie's motors are not the same, even if fullfilled by the same factory of this ebay motor. Cheap magnets and laminations simply wouldn't be worth his time to build, something he wouldn't put his name on. I would come to this conclusion, it is the same decision I would make as a motor builder. Why compete with china low price junk when that isn't the quality and product we strive for? Rock Crawlers are demanding of motors.

There is an AC component in the back iron of PM motors, albeit small. Although it doesn't go into reversal, the flux density still resonates between pole pairs because of the distortion caused by the rotor and coils. In high pole count (short flux path, tight tolerance for any flux density changes) it can become considerable enough to laminate the back iron as well as rotor/stator.

I would argue that the can is quite valuable. Although starting with good magnetic modelling and materials determines how good the motor can be, the execution of housing is what makes the motor possible. If I go into all the trouble of designing the magnetics, I'm damn well going to spend a moment on the can too. But of course there is various levels of work to a motor, and when the magnet is simply round and the laminations and housing are already done it's probably not wise to custom engineer things too far.

[E. Bryant]

All valid points, John!

I will also say that one critical purpose for the housing is heat dissipation. If one can incorporate some additional surface air to aid in conduction to the ambient air, then it's possible to either push the motor a bit harder, or run it at the same power level with lower maximum temperatures; both of these are worthy of spending a bit of extra time and money on the housing. It does take a pretty tight fit between the lam stack and housing to take advantage of this work, though; some of the motors that I worked on in the past utilized a "hot drop" process that resulting in an interference fit between the stator and the housing that did not lend itself to a field-serviceable part.

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

Gen X Baby I lived through the Regan years where the bulk of your paycheck went up your nose.

You know you weren't supposed to insert the rolled-up $100 bill THAT far into your nostril, right?

[JohnRobHolmes]

I typically go for 0.0003 interference at room temp when parts are small enough to hold roundness. Not enough to warp the lams, but enough to ensure good thermal contact. Lamination stacks can be pretty wonky though, so my go to is a little epoxy to fill the gaps.