Dlux Berg Build

[donzx12]

Thanks for all the info. It's great you do all this and post it so we can just put them in and drive. you are tuning and setting up are cars for us and you don't even know it. Im getting better every day.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by Harvo

Can you explain this more? Every time I close one of these shocks up the shaft has to be all the way in or it doesn't get all the air out. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "setting the bladder".

First, lets make sure youre building the shock right...

1 - Fill shock to the top with oil
2- Place the bladder on top of the shock
3- I take a button head screw and gently push in the middle of the bladder until oil comes out and the bladder is set in place.
4- Put the cap on. If you cannot put the cap on without the bladder falling in the shock or getting stuck in the cap, its time for new bladders (TRA1765)

Once you understand the above, you can also play with how much rebound you get out of a stock shock.

You may notice that if you have the shock shaft all the way out when you set the bladder and cap that the shaft will want to push out when everything is assembled, just slightly. This is giving you a bit of rebound. If you change the way you build the shock and you push the shaft all the way in when setting the bladder and cap, now it wont want to push the shock shaft out as it will be its natural position. Before with the shaft out, there is too much oil in the shock when its fully collapsed and if you build it with the shock shaft in when you build them, there will be a vacuum in the shock when its fully extended.

After saying all of that, I was building my shocks with as little rebound as possible before doing these MIP pistons. I liked it but it was not enough. I continued to build my shocks with as little rebound as possible (having vacuum when the shaft is extended) but now my shock moves so fast in the extended position that the vacuum pulls the bladder into the shock. Before it was not so fast and it would just stress the bladder but still keep it in place.

Originally Posted by Harvo

And what rebounds the shocks so fast they suck in the bladder? Not the springs right? gravity? This is awesome tech... this post just confused me. Thanks

I suppose its a combination of things. The valve shim I put in is thin so it allows a lot of oil to pass rapidly. That combined with how heavy my front end is makes the shocks move really fast. I suppose my springs are contributing too but they are pretty light.

Originally Posted by donzx12

Thanks for all the info. It's great you do all this and post it so we can just put them in and drive. you are tuning and setting up are cars for us and you don't even know it. Im getting better every day.

When I used to work a "real" job it became very apparent to me that if I never shared information and trained somebody how to do my current job, that I could not move on and get a promotion since there was nobody that could fill my spot.

If we all learn and get better, I get better too.

[durrty]

The bladders swell after time even if they look perfect. If the lip is over the edge of the threads it's done. Buy bladders in bulk, they swell quickly.


What tool(s) do you use to take the caps off and hold the shock body?

I manage to ruin the caps after a few times taking them on off. Either trashing the threads or squeezing too tight and making the out of round.

[Erik D_lux]

Use only your hands to tighten/take off the cap. If you apply more pressure than that, it will ruin the bladder itself by deforming it.

I also have been drilling holes in my caps to lessen the effects that the vacuum/pressure effects have. Another benefit from this is that if my bladder fails, I know as oil is also leaking from my shock.

Another good way to tell if you have air in the shock is that when you cycle it, it will sound like a bug is farting in the shock. You want them to be silent.

[EddieO]

Or get one of these

TAM54152 OP-1152 Tamiya Damper Oil Air Remover (Shock Pump) - Super Long

There is a few companies who make them....work pretty slick too.

Later EddieO

[durrty]

You can hear a bug fart?

[Erik D_lux]

Thats what I tell my girl. Either that or the dog...

[Harvo]

Hmmmm. I've never built them that way. I fill them to the brim, seat the bladder in the cap nice and carefully. The bladder lip fits into a gap behind the threads. I make sure the bladder lip is laying flat all the way around. I begin to screw the cap on and at the same rate, I push in the shaft. Real bug farts happen as air escapes with the oil. When the cap is on all the way, the shaft is in all the way. Doing it this way, I almost always get a neutral shock...sometimes I get a little vacuum. I never end up with air.

I understand what you are saying now though. Thanks for the explanation. I thought the bladder lip gets captured pretty snug between the cap and body, but I guess not it yours are getting vacuumed in.

Man I'm anxious to get these and try them out. Looks like Tuesday.

[TSK]

The thing is the big bite shock bladder cannot compensate for the total volume of displaced oil of a fully compressed shock shaft. I like to have the rod end on AND the spring cup to determine the total compressed value of the shock shaft. I "think" it's better to bleed/assemble the shock with the shaft partially compressed. Then would prevent excessive oil displacement AND excesssive vacuum.

The excessive displaced oil thing is an even bigger issue on a non-externally limited SCX that uses a bladder. A bladder on those shocks are pretty much useless as far as volume compenstation goes.

Also, RPM makes a big bite shock cap & body wrench. Allows for a bit more than finger tight without damaging the shock cap or body. DOES NOT work with cap modded shock caps

[Erik D_lux]

A very short video...

I put a tiny gap in for JeremyH and there is a very steep climb that you have to scoot over to the right on at the same time. Pretty fun and it shows some of the handling of the car at speed.

At this point, I think the MIP setup is very comfortable for me, I feel like I understand it and I was able to make some simple changes and I think I am really close to where I want to be with them. I am loving the way they handle.

2.2 Wendover 7-27-13 - YouTube

[JeremyH]

Looks good!

Was that last spot the "gate in question" from BOTW?

[Calderwood]

That thing is looking pretty dialed. When you are doing front burns right before the gap is it so steep you can't use rear power there?

[Erik D_lux]

Nope, totally different rock. That was a good obstacle, I need to go back and try it again.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

That thing is looking pretty dialed. When you are doing front burns right before the gap is it so steep you can't use rear power there?

You can use the rear, I just needed a way to get my front ahead of me.

[SkaldidDog]

E,

What's the best time of year to visit out there for a crawl? In the fall? Plane flights and rental car (for hill climbs) are free.

J

[Hittman]

Nice hat!

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by SkaldidDog

E,

What's the best time of year to visit out there for a crawl? In the fall? Plane flights and rental car (for hill climbs) are free.

J

Right nowish is great, things typically slow down this time of year. The down side is that its usually pretty hot. Gotta man up. It was awesome on Saturday though. Overcast and high in mid 80s.

You gots my digits, use em and lets plan something. Cant believe I just typed "digits".

Originally Posted by Hittman

Nice hat!

Thanks I dont like it though. Not big enough and I want to install a CPU fan on top that runs off some batteries to create air flow through the hat.

[Curcal]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

Right nowish is great, things typically slow down this time of year. The down side is that its usually pretty hot. Gotta man up. It was awesome on Saturday though. Overcast and high in mid 80s.

I'm sure the cloud cover cooled it off from our crawling last Fri. What did we temp that rock at 150*ish. The heat seemed to follow me south, felt like we reached the low 100's Thurs and Fri.

[Erik D_lux]

It was cloud cover but it was also just cooler.

Yeah, when it was 100* here I temp'd the rock at 138*. I have temp'd anything with color as high as 160* before when its a bit warmer in the low 100's.

[Harvo]

Most excellent video demonstration dude