Panhard bar?

[Cole82]

Would there be any ill efects moving the panhard bar back towards the link mount?
As in pic #2 compared to the standard location pic #1.

[cuban b]

yes, the shorter panhard will have a shorter arc which will translate into more side to side movement of your axle.

[Cole82]

But the up down travel is much less closer to the link mount. So wouldn't it be about the same?

[Reflection]

Not REAL clear on your drawings,as to where the axle or the chassis is. I'm assuming the 2 triangulated lines are your links. Are all 4 running the same way,opposite from top to bottom or do you have 2 triangulated and 2 that are parallel? If 2 are triangulated and 2 are parallel,you don't need a track bar. If your links look anywhere remotly like these rough drawings you don't need a track bar.

Oh,to answer your ?, with just guessing by your drawings of whats what. Yes,you'd loose performance. A track bar should be kept as close to parallel to the axle as possible and IMHO directly above the axle.

[Cole82]

Sorry it's called a one link susppension.
The link is ridged mounted to the axle. Then there is only one main link to the chassis.
The point is chassis side and the open end is axle side.
My goal is to shorten the chassis and the only thing holding me back is having the panhard bar all the way out on the axle.
simple clod (56k warning)

[Reflection]

O.K., I understand now. Honestly,I'd ditch the cheesy 1 link deal and go traditional double tri. 4 link. If your stuck on the 1 link,personally,I'd keep the track bar over the axle and as parallel as possible.

[rockcrawler_101]

one links work great (at least on real trucks) it will put alot more stress on it being further (or closer to the mount on the frame) because the one link will act like a pry bar on it, but it should actully make the suspension travel more smoothly because it will have to travel less distance further back on the arm then it would if it was on the axle. One thing you do want to do it make it as level as possible. That is really important. The more of an angle its at the more it will pull the axle to one side or the other.

[cuban b]

After looking at it again, I think the only adverse effect would be the extra leverage that would be created. I wouldn't do it on a full size rig, but I bet you can get away with it on an rc with no problems.

[slugzracing]

Will you be using axle or frame mounted steering?

[Cole82]

axle it's a clod alsoif that matters

[slugzracing]

It does matter B/C if the servo were frame mounted you would have some wonderful steering issues under articulation with the panhard bar moved to the link. With it axle mounted it should not do much harm other than raise the risk of bent links.

If you think about it the stock clod is setup with the upper link attaching to the lower

[rockcrawler_101]

steering would be horrible with a 4 link because with a 4 link the suspension will move side to side with it goes threw articulation. With a pan hard bar you run the steering at the same angle and same deriction as the pan hard bar. Your never see anyone running 4 links with steering done from the frame. Axle mounted steering is the best way to go because you dont get bump steer from the suspension cycling threw the motions.

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

steering would be horrible with a 4 link because with a 4 link the suspension will move side to side with it goes threw articulation.

Not if the 4 link is set up properly. With a properly designed 4 link,you'll get soooooooooo little side to side movement,you won't hardly see it or feel it. And at that,the times you'll see it would be at full twist. Not THAT big of a deal when your idleing over rocks vs. running 80 mph down the road.

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

With a pan hard bar you run the steering at the same angle and same deriction as the pan hard bar.

That is a true statement

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

Your never see anyone running 4 links with steering done from the frame.

You don't? Theres pleanty of rigs linked up still running a steering box. Granted,alot of them are running hydro assit,they are STILL running a frame mounted steering setup.

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

Axle mounted steering is the best way to go because you dont get bump steer from the suspension cycling threw the motions.

Bumpsteer isn't really something to worry about at an idle. You have to worry about bumpsteer running the interstate. I'd like to see a rig twisted up running 80 mhp down the interstate,and then see if the tiny bit of bumpsteer is REALLY the main concern. I believe dying from a horrible end over end 12 times roll would be a little more of a concern.


With a properly set up steering system(frame mounted) and proper front axle geometry,linked up or not,you won't have bumpsteer. Plain and simple!


Whats all the concern about bumpsteer anyway? We're build RC's here. If my RC was a 1:1 rig,yes,it would probly handle like crap and steer like a brick. Well,it's not a 1:1 and I'm not in it,so who gives a rats arse.

Lets see,lets get a list going,who's got bumpsteer on their RC's? Who's got the dreaded "death wobble"? and how can we fix it?

[hacked_hummer]

I have it is that bad?

LOL

[rockcrawler_101]

actully i would never run full hydro on the road! you dont get the steering wheel spinning on you with full hydro when you hit a rock ripping your thumb off! (thats also why you never wheel with your thumbs around the steering wheel) But i have never seen a 4 link used with frame mounted steering that didnt use a pan hard bar. I would like to see a pic. Your right this is about rc cars where i think axle mounted steering is better because there is less linkage to break and less slop because of all the linkage. I have death wobble on my RC i turn one way and it keeps going that way and then i turn the other way and it keeps going that way. (stock clod buster suspension with only 4 shocks)

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

actully i would never run full hydro on the road! you dont get the steering wheel spinning on you with full hydro when you hit a rock ripping your thumb off!

I didn't say anything about FULL hydro steering. On the street,yes,I'd stay away from it. I believe that it's illegal to run it anyway.

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

But i have never seen a 4 link used with frame mounted steering that didnt use a pan hard bar.

Just look around Pirate,they are out there. Some do use a trac bar and some don't. It's possable on some rigs to get enough triagulation in the links to do without.

Originally Posted by rockcrawler_101

I have death wobble on my RC i turn one way and it keeps going that way and then i turn the other way and it keeps going that way. (stock clod buster suspension with only 4 shocks)

Thats not bumpsteer,thats a poorly designed steering setup with weak servo's and probly very little to no backspacing on your wheels.

[rockcrawler_101]

its poor suspension actully becuase the truck leans to one side or the other which makes it turn. (its still stock) if you do it right you can have full hydro on the street and it is legal in some states. yeah the pan hard bar is needed for steering. All the rigs i have seen with 4 links in the front have hydro steering on pirates or are used only for offroad only (slow speeds). but im going to stop this agurment because its pointless because it really has nothin to do with RC's. I will stick with my pan hard bar on my one to one. here is a rig with a one link setup and a funky pan hard par!

here is the pan hard bar setup

This setup allows from only so much drop and pivots at the top. I wouldnt do it unless you want to be diffrent. He also runs full hydro.

[sambmx]

Besides it being illegal there is nothing wrong with full hydro on the road.Full hydro is much safer than most of the drop steering arm, crazy angled links, and other stuff out on the roads. Why do people think its so unsafe? Its more reliable and deffinantly stronger than whats on most vehicles. Whos had a steering arm fail or break steering boxes? anybody have a horrible crash caused by a hydro set up ever failing? If its good for streeing massive dumptrucks, cranes, aircraft, boats, loaders, and other vehicles why is it unsafe for our trucks?

my 2 cents

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by sambmx

Besides it being illegal there is nothing wrong with full hydro on the road.Full hydro is much safer than most of the drop steering arm, crazy angled links, and other stuff out on the roads. Why do people think its so unsafe? Its more reliable and deffinantly stronger than whats on most vehicles. Whos had a steering arm fail or break steering boxes? anybody have a horrible crash caused by a hydro set up ever failing? If its good for streeing massive dumptrucks, cranes, aircraft, boats, loaders, and other vehicles why is it unsafe for our trucks?

my 2 cents

Well,I've driven huge forklifts (30,000 lb. rated) and big tractors on the road,for short periods moving from job to job and such. They were all full hydro steering. I felt safe and knew they wouldn't fail. I believe the reason they are illegal in places is because they are sooooo sensitive. There's no room for error,when you think about turning and move the wheel a butthair it's already turning. With that kind of reaction time and the stupidity of most drivers nowadays,the results at 80 mph could and probly would be very deadly.

As far as the massive dumptrucks, cranes, aircraft, boats, loaders, and other vehicles. Massive dumptrucks are moved from job to job on trailers and sometimes in pieces. Cranes are normally escorted to the job at slow speeds and driven by a trained person. I'll not comment about aircraft cuz I don't know much about them. I do know that at highspeeds (on the ground) they are driven in a straight line by a trained pilot. I don't think boats are driven on the street


I'm not argueing with you all,I'm just stating my opinion. Yeah,it's kinda got off topic,sorry,I think it's good info though.