Vaterra K10 or SCX10II?

[Genghis Ken]

Hey all, not trying to start WWIII here, just looking for some honest advice.
I'm new to scaling but not to crawling or RC in general. My night crawler doesn't get out much these days so I am thinking perhaps it's time to get a scaler.

I have read good things about the Vaterra Ascender. Likewise the SCX10II. I've been a Losi fan and I have a Twin Hammers so I was leaning towards the K10 for my scaler, but I've never had an Axial anything, so who knows maybe I'm missing out?

So I'm asking, is there a whole lot between the 2 trucks? Which ones better and why?

My criteria are strictly out of the box RTR, the truck as it comes outta the box, what it actually IS, not what it can be!
For the time being I'm gonna play with the toy I get and actually use it before I try to make it better.
So in ways that actually matter, is there a reason to favor one truck over the other? And given that here in the U.K. the SC10II is £100 more than the K10, does it have features that are worth £100 more?

[imthatguy]

SCX10II. But if you've got the money an inclination, go for the Kit. Much better bits out of the box.

[Motorider]

Gotta agree with ^^. I have over 50 hours on my scx10.2 with the only breakage being the rear bumper....twice so far. I am installing studs in the plastic bits to fix it when I get home. This truck has been the best rc I have ever owned. I could not be happier. I should note that I have the kit with a holmes puller pro setup. OMG that is the hot ticket right there.

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[Genghis Ken]

But what are the features of the Axial that make it better?

[JatoTheRipper]

I've never driven an SCX10 II, but after driving my Ascender next to one I'll keep my Ascender. I pulled hills that the SCX10 II couldn't. Granted, my Ascender is modified with weighted axles, but the SCX10 II had weight added as well. I'd eventually like an SCX10 II though.

If you want RTR get the Ascender.

But if you decide you must have the SCX10 II make sure you get the kit. The SCX10 II RTR is more like SCX10 1.5 because it has the old transmission.

In my experience, any Axial product will need a ton more upgrades over time than an Ascender will. The Ascender is ready to go out of the box and it's better built and just more durable overall. Axial plastics leave a lot to be desired.

Vaterra has much better quality control and much better customer service as well.

[Motorider]

I would like to say that I have had fantastic luck with axial customer service. In fact I have not had a better customer service than with axial. Durability is not in question with the scx10.2 I beat the crap out of it and it's still going strong. I was at a local crawl and there about 120 drivers present. I would say there were about 4 scx10.2 to every ascender. I'm not at all dogging on the ascender...in fact I want one. I just have to save up some cash Ola. If you want great advice on this I would talk to bilinovic here on the forum. He has both rigs and I'm sure he would direct you in the correct direction. Either way I'm sure you will have a great rig with many smiles generated. Good luck.

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[AngelowDoom]

It depends what you want, they are very similar. The SCX10II wins by just a bit due to better reduction in the axles, thats about it. But if you like to tinker with the truck. at the moment the Ascender has much more after market support in the scale end. Espesially with the parts from GCM racing, Moose RC, rc-crawler.it (Giuseppe Musumeci) and more.
The SCX10II has the compatibility to the old SCX10 as a bonus, not as much for the new platform. But then again, it dont need as much. And Axial is more popular, so will not be long before it has more aftermarket support.

[waw]

go to the local scene, try it out each model.. if possible, then pick or choose which one suite your wants (or needs)

another thing to consider, aftermarkets availability in your local hobby shop.. just in case you're faced with a "broken" parts CMIIW and whatever you choose it's yours to keep, just don't forget to HAVE TONS OF FUN

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Genghis Ken

...My criteria are strictly out of the box RTR, the truck as it comes outta the box, what it actually IS, not what it can be!
For the time being I'm gonna play with the toy I get and actually use it before I try to make it better.
So in ways that actually matter, is there a reason to favor one truck over the other? And given that here in the U.K. the SC10II is £100 more than the K10, does it have features that are worth £100 more?

Vaterra Ascender, I like the K10 body better but my Blazer is fun too.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I've never driven an SCX10 II, but after driving my Ascender next to one I'll keep my Ascender. I pulled hills that the SCX10 II couldn't. Granted, my Ascender is modified with weighted axles, but the SCX10 II had weight added as well. I'd eventually like an SCX10 II though.

If you want RTR get the Ascender.

But if you decide you must have the SCX10 II make sure you get the kit. The SCX10 II RTR is more like SCX10 1.5 because it has the old transmission.

In my experience, any Axial product will need a ton more upgrades over time than an Ascender will. The Ascender is ready to go out of the box and it's better built and just more durable overall. Axial plastics leave a lot to be desired.

Vaterra has much better quality control and much better customer service as well.

X2

[OldNTired]

I vote Ascender. I have the K10 and love it. It's pretty much box stock other than tucking the bumpers and adding inner fenders. Plus, should you go kit (it's the K5 but you can build to whatever wheel base you like) you could potentially save $60. Just received my K5 kit from RPP for 289. Compare that to the 349 Axial asks. For RTR I think the difference is about 10-15 bucks.

[Bananaclip]

I would go with whichever kit or rtr you prefer. Both rigs are solid bases. The axial will have more available upgrades and following. I like the vaterra frame better but feel way more comfortable with the axial drivetrain. Axial is amazing when it comes to durability. I have owned both and now only have v2 scx10's. Oh the axial rtr has a true 3 channel pistol grip which is another nice feature. . Have fun and enjoy your new rig.

[Col_Sanders]

I wonder how many of these guys have owned both....I have.

After driving my SCX10 II kit a few times, I sold the Ascender and bought an RTR SCX10 II to replace it. The Ascender is far better than the original SCX10 right out of the box, but the SCX10 II is a different story. The II has much less torque twist, heavier duty driveshafts and diff gears, clockable c hubs, high pinion diffs, can accept normal sized battery packs, and the front end suspension geometry is better.

[fyrstormer]

The SCX10 II is an amazing truck. You will not regret getting one.

I'm not sure where the complaints about Axial plastics come from. My Wraith weighs 7.4lbs and the stock plastic axles and chassis are still rock solid after years of use.

I can't forgive the Ascender's incompatibility with full-size batteries. That knocks out a huge segment of the market consisting of casual RCers who don't want to have special batteries for individual vehicles.

[Bry73]

I too like Col Sanders have both, I haven't sold off either of my Ascenders. I really like my Ascenders once I was able to reduce the torque twist that they come with out of the box, The SCX10 II don't have this due to a couple of factors, one is different gear ratio and the pinion coming in on the upper half of the ring gear in the diff's.

Kit form) Both have metal links, both have 2 speed upgrade capabilities, both have 3 link front suspension with frame mounted servo's.
Vaterra's battery holder was designed for a shorty pack like the Reaction 4000 mAh 50C 2 Cell Lipo
SCX10 II uses a standard length battery standing on edge

Vaterras TSL Super Swampers are good proven tires, kit and rtr comes with glue on wheel's
SCX10 II has the BFG All Terrain T/A's are good on dry surfaces, but don't self clean, and suck on wet rocks

Vaterra front axles if using to much stearing angle and trying to force way out can and will snap CVD's
SCX10 II when front axle housing gets wet the C-Hubs can and will rotate

Drive the snot out of both, but for events I prefer the Ascender over the SCX10 II, Can only handle seeing just so many Jeepsout on the trails.
Now if this was Wraith/ Bomber or an SCX10 II I would say SCX10 II

[Genghis Ken]

Definite food for thought.

Regarding the torque twist, how much are we talking about, is it as bad as a stock MRC? Cause that thing honks right over when you squeeze the trigger and that would bug the heck outta me.

I have to admit looks wise I prefer the K10 body to the Jeep on the SC10II.
I think it looks cooler, but if my cool body is torqed over half of the time its going to be a lot less cool.

I have heard that Axial's plastics are softer which seems to lead people to swap parts for something more robust so their screws don't strip out, again Ive never owned one so I cant say if that's true or not but it would bug the snot out of me if it was easy to over tighten screws and strip out the plastic.

Battery wise, I'm ok with having to get a shorty pack, The shorty packs have become more or less standard for a lot of classes in racing where size and weight matter because they offer a performance gain in terms of weight and size from a full size pack, Shorty packs will still have lots of run time in a crawler/scaler and if it does offer a performance gain it kinda makes sense to get one, I still have my 3 cell packs designed specifically for my LCC, so I guess for crawlers I'm just used to the idea of needing a specialty battery.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Genghis Ken

Definite food for thought.

Regarding the torque twist, how much are we talking about, is it as bad as a stock MRC? Cause that thing honks right over when you squeeze the trigger and that would bug the heck outta me.

I have to admit looks wise I prefer the K10 body to the Jeep on the SC10II.
I think it looks cooler, but if my cool body is torqed over half of the time its going to be a lot less cool.

I have heard that Axial's plastics are softer which seems to lead people to swap parts for something more robust so their screws don't strip out, again Ive never owned one so I cant say if that's true or not but it would bug the snot out of me if it was easy to over tighten screws and strip out the plastic.

Battery wise, I'm ok with having to get a shorty pack, The shorty packs have become more or less standard for a lot of classes in racing where size and weight matter because they offer a performance gain in terms of weight and size from a full size pack, Shorty packs will still have lots of run time in a crawler/scaler and if it does offer a performance gain it kinda makes sense to get one, I still have my 3 cell packs designed specifically for my LCC, so I guess for crawlers I'm just used to the idea of needing a specialty battery.

The Ascender definitely has a noticeable amount of torque twist, but it's so easily remedied that it's not even an issue. If the torque twist was as bad and unmanageable as some of the SCX10 II owners claimed the Ascender wouldn't be out there beating the SCX10 II and winning events like it does.

I haven't built an SCX10 II kit, but I've built an SCX10, Bomber, and have worked all too much on my Wraith. The plastic is not as good as Vaterra's. Not even close. So unless they changed the plastic just for the SCX10 II, which I highly doubt, I don't see it being any better than the rest of the Axial products.

Exactly. The shorty battery pack isn't even an issue. So many people have shorty packs. And others buy smaller packs specifically for crawling. On the trails I'd say I see about a 50/50 split of people running full size batteries versus smaller packs. And there's always a way to get full-size battery packs on the Ascender if you're looking to reduce the performance of your truck...

Another good thing is the Ascender, especially in kit form, is cheaper than the Axial SCX10 II.

The fact is you will love whichever truck you buy. Have the best of both worlds and buy both.

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

The SCX10 II is an amazing truck. You will not regret getting one.

I'm not sure where the complaints about Axial plastics come from. My Wraith weighs 7.4lbs and the stock plastic axles and chassis are still rock solid after years of use.

I can't forgive the Ascender's incompatibility with full-size batteries. That knocks out a huge segment of the market consisting of casual RCers who don't want to have special batteries for individual vehicles.

There is a simple fix for that full size batteries. I cut a chunk of 2x4 on an angle and placed that in the tray. Took a couple tries to get the clearance over the tranny just right, but once I did a couple zip ties to hold the battery in place and bobs your uncle. Works like a charm.

[Col_Sanders]

A lot of the plastic on the SCX10 II feels different than the older stuff.

The torque twist on the Ascender right out of the box is bad. A sway bar is supposed to fix it, but I never installed one. I added a servo winch beside the steering servo and it helped a little, but on climbs it would still pull that side terribly. Stuff my stock SCX10 II would easily make, I was unable to do with the Ascender (it had aluminum knuckles, Vaterra brass knuckle weights, servo winch, Rock Beasts, CI foams).

The Ascender's chassis is more rigid for sure. That's probably the only advantage I see over the II and IMO that isn't a big deal. You could probably make the II as rigid if you added a brace between the shock towers. The steering on the II is just as good (if not better). The Wildboar HD driveshafts on the SCX are beefier than the Ascender's, the ring and pinion are heavier duty and have a larger contact area. The II and the Blazer Ascender have huge bodies and bumpers that stick out and get hung up a lot. That doesn't appear to be a problem with the K10.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Col_Sanders

A lot of the plastic on the SCX10 II feels different than the older stuff.

The torque twist on the Ascender right out of the box is bad. A sway bar is supposed to fix it, but I never installed one. I added a servo winch beside the steering servo and it helped a little, but on climbs it would still pull that side terribly. Stuff my stock SCX10 II would easily make, I was unable to do with the Ascender (it had aluminum knuckles, Vaterra brass knuckle weights, servo winch, Rock Beasts, CI foams).

The Ascender's chassis is more rigid for sure. That's probably the only advantage I see over the II and IMO that isn't a big deal. You could probably make the II as rigid if you added a brace between the shock towers. The steering on the II is just as good (if not better). The Wildboar HD driveshafts on the SCX are beefier than the Ascender's, the ring and pinion are heavier duty and have a larger contact area. The II and the Blazer Ascender have huge bodies and bumpers that stick out and get hung up a lot. That doesn't appear to be a problem with the K10.

So Axial changed plastics just for the SCX10 II? That just doesn't make sense and it would be quite odd if it were true.

My Ascender has no mods to fix torque twist, not even outboarding the shocks, and it outcrawled an SCX10 II. I don't think there's a huge performance difference between the trucks like you are claiming.

The stock driveshafts and gears should hold up on both trucks for the average crawler now that the Ascender comes with the HD parts. I have not had any issues with either.

[Brandon]

I love these threads.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

So Axial changed plastics just for the SCX10 II? That just doesn't make sense and it would be quite odd if it were true.

My Ascender has no mods to fix torque twist, not even outboarding the shocks, and it outcrawled an SCX10 II. I don't think there's a huge performance difference between the trucks like you are claiming.

The stock driveshafts and gears should hold up on both trucks for the average crawler now that the Ascender comes with the HD parts. I have not had any issues with either.

Which one is the SCX10II? They all look excellent but have a lot of heavy scale accessories installed compared to your Blazer. I like your style. Keep it light, minimal, performance oriented.

I recall you bending the stock links easily on your Ascender?