Differences?

[fivepointnine98]

After deciding to get into MOA Bully seems to be the MOA to get sounds like it is bulletproof that being said what is the differences between the RTC and ARTC? besides the obvious no electronics. Are the chassis, axles, etc...
the same? thanks for any help in advance

[Reddogsf]

Well a few questions first are you planning on Competing with it? That will make a big difference in what you want to get. If you are going to compete you will want to go with the light weight bully axles and gear cases. not the cast ones that I believe are on the RTR and ARTR. If you are going to bash with it and for fun then those will be fine. Most Bully drivers and builders go there own. For instance they will buy the Axles then buy the chassis and either build or use the links that come with the chassis. Or what I did was buy a Used one from the For sale section then change out the chassis and axles and basically build a whole new truck LOL. Alot of guys will customize the gear cases and Tubes also. They are bullet proof and can't beat the cost vs a Berg or XR10. Also there are some mods to the knuckles for more turn radius and some things that like to help the performance of the truck.

Both the ARC and the RTC come with the standard Cast Axles and Gear Cases so you would have to upgrade them. Personally since you have a star watch the For Sale Section for a few Days you will probably get a better deal on there.

[Sydwall85]

There's a guy right now in the classifieds selling some lightweight front tubes and knuckles.... saw it last night. Check it out.

[Reddogsf]

Well if he wants to by the RTC or ARTC from RC4WD it would be ok just if he wants to comp with it they list the upgrades to get the lightweight tubes and Gear Cases and I would recommend those to get the truck lighter. If not going to comp then the Cast tubes are fine. But I know the last comp I did with cast axles and gear cases I nicknamed my truck Big Bertha and when she hit the ground it sounded like a 20 lbs Rock crashed down and shook the concrete floor LOL.

[fivepointnine98]

I'm mainly looking to just have fun I have an ax10 with some coin into it, just looking to get into the MoA world I don't mind do upgrades, my buddy has an xr 10 and it seems to be a little temperamental for my taste. Thanks for the input

[xirtic]

Originally Posted by Reddogsf

They are bullet proof and can't beat the cost vs a Berg or XR10. .

I use to agree with this....until I compared the costs of my comp Bully to the current costs of building an XR10. I posted this a while back, but I believe that it is still relevant. BOTH truck builds will require similar electronics, chassis, and suspension components. The arguement of COST being a Bully benefit is kind-of inflated.

Need a Quick Answer... Bully's or XR-10... I'm short on research time.


Really the AXLE cost is the difference...and how far you take those axles can greatly effect the total costs.

Bully
-Light Bully V1 or V3 Axles: $250
-Heavy Front Tubes/Knuckles: $20
-Front Bearing Mod: $10 (I used Ti 4mm Screws and Acer Bearings)
-Front v6 XVD: $40
-Rear v6 XVD: $35
-Some kind of steering kit (we will assume a lower cost option....Xirtic Steering Kit): $20
TOTAL: $375

This mix of parts really makes the Bully axles crazy strong.

XR10
-KIT: $150 (crazy price drops on this lately)
-RC4wd Bearing KIT x2: $70
-RC4wd Gears x2: $80
-Vanquish Knuckles: $50
-Vanquish Cs: $40
-Vanquish Upper Link Mounts: $75
-Misc Avid Bearings/Traxxas Bushing: $15
TOTAL: $480

The XR10 Axles built this way are mighty strong as well....and still realtively light compared to their stock form.

Yes there is a $105 price difference in favor of the Bully build. But consider these possibilities:

1. You can sell the XR10 wheel set from the KIT at about $35
2. You can sell the XR10 chassis/links for about $25
3. You do not NEED to buy decent shocks with the XR10 kit...with the Bully you need to buy shocks for about $50

If during a XR10 truck build these 3 steps were taken, the total cost of a XR10 build comes pretty close to equalling a built up Bully build. Arguements can be made that the Upper link mounts are not needed in the XR10 build...so that shaves out another $75. Similar can be said that the Bully build does not need v6 XDVs....so that evens out with $75 less into the Bully.

It is interesting how these numbers really work out. Also remember that once the axles and shocks are sorted out, the rest of the build is very similar on both sides in terms of chassis/links/electronics.

Just something to really think about. I own both types of axles.....and once I wrote all my costs down, it is surprising to see where the money actually went.

[Reddogsf]

But Xirtic I have seen guys chunk the Rc4wd Gears on the XR10 when it comes to Durability I agree the XR10 is more durable with those upgrades but still not as good as the Bully durability wise. So I would still stand behind a bully for playing around bashing and not having to worry about breaking it then a XR10. But he is also talking the RTR or ARTR Kits not buying all the axle hardware and slapping it together. So as to which will stand up and last longer without breaking or needed a bunch of upgraded parts to make it dependable the Bully smacks the XR10 hands down. I have seen guys build up a stock XR10 and chunk a gear in the first 5 minutes running the thing and being careful at that.

[xirtic]

Originally Posted by Reddogsf

But Xirtic I have seen guys chunk the Rc4wd Gears on the XR10 when it comes to Durability I agree the XR10 is more durable with those upgrades but still not as good as the Bully durability wise. So I would still stand behind a bully for playing around bashing and not having to worry about breaking it then a XR10. But he is also talking the RTR or ARTR Kits not buying all the axle hardware and slapping it together. So as to which will stand up and last longer without breaking or needed a bunch of upgraded parts to make it dependable the Bully smacks the XR10 hands down. I have seen guys build up a stock XR10 and chunk a gear in the first 5 minutes running the thing and being careful at that.

I think that the arguement is 2 sided. At my last comp, 2 Bully's snaped pins in the XVDs (v4). In my past with my Bully...I snapped one as well at a major comp. I have had my XR10 bound up and twisted, and nothing breaks. But I know that is often not the case.

I am not a Bully-hater.... I love mine still. I just think that it is unfair to eliminate the XR10 based on costs. AND the bully is generally more durable...but mine has been holding up GREAT as well.

[jcboof]

Originally Posted by xirtic

I use to agree with this....until I compared the costs of my comp Bully to the current costs of building an XR10. I posted this a while back, but I believe that it is still relevant. BOTH truck builds will require similar electronics, chassis, and suspension components. The arguement of COST being a Bully benefit is kind-of inflated.

Need a Quick Answer... Bully's or XR-10... I'm short on research time.


Really the AXLE cost is the difference...and how far you take those axles can greatly effect the total costs.

Bully
-Light Bully V1 or V3 Axles: $250
-Heavy Front Tubes/Knuckles: $20
-Front Bearing Mod: $10 (I used Ti 4mm Screws and Acer Bearings)
-Front v6 XVD: $40
-Rear v6 XVD: $35
-Some kind of steering kit (we will assume a lower cost option....Xirtic Steering Kit): $20
TOTAL: $375

This mix of parts really makes the Bully axles crazy strong.

XR10
-KIT: $150 (crazy price drops on this lately)
-RC4wd Bearing KIT x2: $70
-RC4wd Gears x2: $80
-Vanquish Knuckles: $50
-Vanquish Cs: $40
-Vanquish Upper Link Mounts: $75
-Misc Avid Bearings/Traxxas Bushing: $15
TOTAL: $480

The XR10 Axles built this way are mighty strong as well....and still realtively light compared to their stock form.

Yes there is a $105 price difference in favor of the Bully build. But consider these possibilities:

1. You can sell the XR10 wheel set from the KIT at about $35
2. You can sell the XR10 chassis/links for about $25
3. You do not NEED to buy decent shocks with the XR10 kit...with the Bully you need to buy shocks for about $50

If during a XR10 truck build these 3 steps were taken, the total cost of a XR10 build comes pretty close to equalling a built up Bully build. Arguements can be made that the Upper link mounts are not needed in the XR10 build...so that shaves out another $75. Similar can be said that the Bully build does not need v6 XDVs....so that evens out with $75 less into the Bully.

It is interesting how these numbers really work out. Also remember that once the axles and shocks are sorted out, the rest of the build is very similar on both sides in terms of chassis/links/electronics.

Just something to really think about. I own both types of axles.....and once I wrote all my costs down, it is surprising to see where the money actually went.

Josh, I normally can agree with you on most things but I'll call you out on this.

The XR needs at least 500-600 worth of upgrades to be as bulletproof as the bullies, But with that price comes a better axle.

The bullies for the money can't be beat.

You don't HAVE to have the lightweight bullies. There are several things you can do the the heavy ones to make them work better, but it requires the use of a machine shop or someone who doesn't mind spending time with a grinder.

You can lighten them pretty significantly, but you will not get them as light as the Machined axles. The internal geartrain is what makes these axles strong. But you don't HAVE to lighten them. I've seen plenty of guys drive the heavy bullies very well and keep up with 5lb XR's and 6lb bergs.

There are advantages to the XR and Berg axles, but I'm not going to get into that here. But all I'm saying is that an XR is in NO WAY AT ALL going to be more affordable or as affordable as a bully axle.

[xirtic]

Originally Posted by jcboof

Josh, I normally can agree with you on most things but I'll call you out on this.

The XR needs at least 500-600 worth of upgrades to be as bulletproof as the bullies, But with that price comes a better axle.

The bullies for the money can't be beat.

You don't HAVE to have the lightweight bullies. There are several things you can do the the heavy ones to make them work better, but it requires the use of a machine shop or someone who doesn't mind spending time with a grinder.

You can lighten them pretty significantly, but you will not get them as light as the Machined axles. The internal geartrain is what makes these axles strong. But you don't HAVE to lighten them. I've seen plenty of guys drive the heavy bullies very well and keep up with 5lb XR's and 6lb bergs.

There are advantages to the XR and Berg axles, but I'm not going to get into that here. But all I'm saying is that an XR is in NO WAY AT ALL going to be more affordable or as affordable as a bully axle.

Jesse,
What parts in my XR10 Axle List are missing? What math is flawed? Axle tops at $120/axle to eliminate the small bearing for a larger bearing? The $1 Traxxas bushing in the VP upper link mount is rock solid. A VP Trans Case instead of the RC4wd bearing kit? I have dumped $$$ into both builds, and listed those numbers above. In my builds it was a break even cost, and my XR10 axles have taken quite the beating without any signs of wear/failure...even with the 454 cobalt motors beating on the drive train. It is not that I disagree on the durability of the Bully Axle....I just disagree on the large cost differentials that people so often point out.

[Reddogsf]

But back to the original Post he is refering to the RTC or ARTC and a RTR Bully is going to be less to maintain then a XR10 RTR out of the box. That was the original question. Your response is to 1 sentence in my original answer to him about Cast or machined axles and gear cases. and since we are talking RTR, the Bully RTR without any mods would be more durable and less to maintain. The argument over the Mod costs of XR10 vs Bully have nothing to do with this poor guys question. LOL

[jcboof]

Originally Posted by Reddogsf

The argument over the Mod costs of XR10 vs Bully have nothing to do with this poor guys question. LOL

Dammit Curt, show Josh and I some respect!!!!

The RTR Bully is fine if you just want to bash around and don't plan on doing any serious competition. Even the RTR can compete, just not at the level of a custom built crawler. The differenced between the RTR and ARTR is electronics vs no electronics. Both have the same chassis, and axles. The RTR is a pretty decent value considering that all you'll have to do is charge a battery and go but the electronics are pretty low quality compared to the other systems and components you can buy. But for a basher, I'm sure they will do fine.

With that said, Its all about what you want to put into it. If you are like me, its all or nothing. I will go to the end of the earth to set up a perfect truck and spend whatever is necessary to do so and compete at the highest level I can. But on the other end of the spectrum is a guy who just wants a crawler to go and drive around on his spare time and have fun with it.

Decide what you want to do and go that direction. Like I said before, you CAN compete with the RTR, but don't be surprised that It wont hang with a fully modded bully, berg, or XR.