Pinion carrier bearing issues

[arnesto]

I just got my new TF2 this weekend from my LHS, and decided to check out all the shimming, lubing of the drivetrain etc, and discovered the rear axle was a fair bit out. Digging into it I discovered that the 3rd member bearings are very loose in their bores, with a taper from +0.05mm to +0.10mm on both bearings for the rear differential pinion. Conversely the front carrier is -0.01, so it's a slight press fit (as it should be).
Has anyone else had the same issue??
I'm going to email RC4WD to see what they have to say about it.
Here are links to the video of it.

RC4WD Trail Finder 2 - 3rd member bearing issue - YouTube

RC4WD Trail finder 2- 3rd member bearing issue 2 - YouTube

RC4WD Trail finder 2 - 3rd member bearing issue 3 - YouTube


I was also thinking of changing out all the axle bearings with sealed units (for the outer ones and both sides of the steering knuckles) to help keep water out after sealing the axel halves.

[arnesto]

Just as a note when shimmed and c-clip is in place the bearing still moves in the bore- I left it out to make it easier to see.

[turbomini]

i used brass shim and cut it to specs and its been working so far

[tozrovr]

You can swap the shims around, or use different shims but you're really over-thinking it. Sounds like you got one on each side of the spectrum of the specs.

I'd run it a bit then shim it. If you shim it now, you'll be doing it again once things have broken in.

Swapping to a rubber shielded bearing isn't a bad idea, but the metal shielded setup that is stock is fine. Even with rubber shields, if you run in water you'll want to do periodic maintenance.

[arnesto]

Thanks for the info, I think the main issue I am having is that the bearings holding the pinion in the carrier are loose fitting in their bores, this causes the pinion to move around and bearings to spin.

I went ahead and reassembled the front and installed a set of RC4WD XVD axles. They shimmed up good by swapping the pinion shims around.
One thing I noticed is that with the XVD, any play in the knuckles can add alot of drag to the axles when turned to their extremes, I found tightening the knuckle screws at full lock it prevented the added drag. I think the cause is the lack of slop in the xvd vs the dog bones....

[Kylar]

I would ask them if they could send you a new bearing housing, since its a seperate part anyways.
That is definitely way too lose, neither of my axles are like that.

The machining on some of their parts is hit or miss.

[arnesto]

Hey Kylar,
Thanks for confirming my suspicion on the issue.
RC4WD has advised me it is within tolerances, which I find hard to believe, coming from an mechanical engineering backgound I know this is too loose for a bearing to operate correctly.
Since they are not replacing the housing I will shim it to work (easy enough to do, but would rather have the parts correct in the first place)

[Rook82]

Originally Posted by arnesto

Hey Kylar,
Thanks for confirming my suspicion on the issue.
RC4WD has advised me it is within tolerances, which I find hard to believe, coming from an mechanical engineering backgound I know this is too loose for a bearing to operate correctly.
Since they are not replacing the housing I will shim it to work (easy enough to do, but would rather have the parts correct in the first place)

If it is loose enough for the bearing to fall right out, it is too loose. I don't know how some of these places come up with these replies. Don't get me wrong, I love the stuff RC4WD puts out. Rc scaling would be completely different and worse imho without them. But to say a third member housing that has the bearing fall out like that be "in spec" in their eyes is crazy. It will just get worse as the bearing spins in the housing and grinds away more material. Shimming will fix it but that will be an awfully thin shim. There is a lot of load on that outer axle pinion to drive shaft bearing. With the drive shafts being as they are on the TF2, the drive shafts hang on a lot of obstacles and terrain. Placing the weight of the rig on the drive shaft and then the bearing. Will not be a pretty sight after a bit of running.

Hopefully you come up with a sturdy enough shim or other idea. Best of luck.

[Kylar]

Originally Posted by arnesto

Hey Kylar,
Thanks for confirming my suspicion on the issue.
RC4WD has advised me it is within tolerances, which I find hard to believe, coming from an mechanical engineering backgound I know this is too loose for a bearing to operate correctly.
Since they are not replacing the housing I will shim it to work (easy enough to do, but would rather have the parts correct in the first place)

You might want to try calling, or see if you can get another person. I had an issue with a stripped/ or incorrectly tapped hole in my front axle and they were really great and sent me a new axle housing.

[Jeepfixer1]

One thing I do in 1:1 car repair is to take a chisel or punch and make a small set of "dings" around the inside walls of the bore that the bearing rides in. This will push metal up on either side of your chisel hits, tightening the bore. Just be careful not to go over board. I would try four small marks at 12-3-6-9 o'clock . You should have to tap the bearing in with a small hammer after doing this!

[arnesto]

Thanks jeepfixer, I'll give that a try the next time I have it apart to shim it, I pushed the bearing through a plastic bag to take up the gap, it seems to be working so far.

[tozrovr]

Originally Posted by Jeepfixer1

One thing I do in 1:1 car repair is to take a chisel or punch and make a small set of "dings" around the inside walls of the bore that the bearing rides in. This will push metal up on either side of your chisel hits, tightening the bore. Just be careful not to go over board. I would try four small marks at 12-3-6-9 o'clock . You should have to tap the bearing in with a small hammer after doing this!

Between that, and loctite 640 you're golden

[Postclanker]

You shouldn't have to do this....
RC4wd should pay attention to VP specs, they are so tight they don't want to fit sometimes. VP claim "Made in America"....RC4wd need to pay attention

[tozrovr]

Originally Posted by Postclanker

You shouldn't have to do this....
RC4wd should pay attention to VP specs, they are so tight they don't want to fit sometimes. VP claim "Made in America"....RC4wd need to pay attention

I agree but for a $69 axle they're pretty consistent and good. If we want VP specs, well get VP prices. I cant afford those.

[arnesto]

The VP stuff looks top quality and has a big price as their parts tend to 100% machined and geared towards perfection, however getting a bearing bore in tolerance with today's machining technology shouldn't drive up the price of a pinion carrier.
I like my TF2, but am a little disappointed in some areas as to the quality, I had less troubles with my original Bruiser ( wish I had kept it).
I like to work on the rig, but for the price it should be better IMO.
It will be awesome when all the bugs are worked out.

[tozrovr]

The axles are cast...the fact that this seems to be a rare occurrence means im thinking its still a stellar deal. The OG bruiser is very well made...as are the re-releases...at $740.
For $399 its a deal of redonkulous proportions, but I do think Rc4wd should swap you out with a new, in spec part.
It's also glaringly obvious that none of the folks disappointed with the tf2 have owned a Gelande

Originally Posted by arnesto

I like to work on the rig, but for the price it should be better IMO.
It will be awesome when all the bugs are worked out.

Better? As in no defects in any of the kits at all? Impossible. A good example for you in this respect is new tv's. Samsung when building a model of tv's sells them to the box stores with an expectation of up yo 30% return rate. Since we're not seeing many posts about other defective parts I'm guessing that they're doing pretty well.

[TrailDawg362]

After my front diff stripped out I opened up the axle housing to find no sign of grease and very sloppy bearings. The pinion gear moved in and out of the housing by a good 1/8th inch or more, the ring gear also had an excessive amount of slop as well. Fortunately, RC4WD had sent me a replacement axle after having recieved a kit with 2 right hand knuckles (one installed upside-down). I opened up the second axle, greased and shimmed everything in order to avoid another gear-shredding incident. Time will tell if it holds up...

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by Jeepfixer1

One thing I do in 1:1 car repair is to take a chisel or punch and make a small set of "dings" around the inside walls of the bore that the bearing rides in. This will push metal up on either side of your chisel hits, tightening the bore. Just be careful not to go over board. I would try four small marks at 12-3-6-9 o'clock . You should have to tap the bearing in with a small hammer after doing this!

This is called 'staking', it can be a quick fix if necessary, but I think that a full shim would be the better solution if possible. Loc-tite makes a bearing retainer chemical ( 609 me thinks) that can chemically lock a bearing on a worn shaft, it could work for the bore issue, you would just have to be extremely careful with the application, if any of the compound gets into the bearing it will seize it shut.

[rustneversleeps]

Sorry for opening a can of worms and since this is a 5 year old thread I'm having the same problem and my TF2 is brand new..
Has there been another fix for this or is it still on going...
I'm not to worried about it going in and out shim should fix that.It's the side to side motion I'm worried about wearing out the inside of the housing.The bearing is loose......
My fix and will try is to wrap some foil paper around the bearing and press it in..
I heard this was the problem for the Ascender axle bearing and the foil was the fix so ill try it on the TF2..

[arnesto]

There is no real fix, I shimmed mine. I used a plastic bag on one; I put the bag over the bore for the bearing (like a drum skin) and pushed the bearing through it. It worked decent, I would get 5-10 hours of use before I had to redo it (sometimes more).
I would not stake it. The other I was able to shim with thin brass.