class 3 tire question

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by RickGrimes

So as the rules read all people have to do is convince proline to advertise the size smaller even though it might physically measure larger?

Tire size for each class is determined by manufacturer specifications. This makes it easy for tech at events. Everyone know ahead of time what the tire size is. Having to physically measure a bunch of cut-n-shuts is a huge time waste. The max tire size for Class 3 is 5.75" tall. Since the Swamper XL is listed at 5.8" it's illegal. If Pro-Line (or any other manufacturer) came out with a 6" tire and listed it at 5.75" then we'd have issues. Until then, this is how we will be handling tire sizes.

[johnnyh66]

since we're talking tires... I'd really like to be able to narrow C1 tires!
They are all so damn wide.

[holycaveman]

All this aside. 5.75 is a strange stopping point. As far as that goes why even have a limit on class 3 tires size? It's a 13 minumum gate. Less than comp crawlers.

That gate size dictates tire size. Problem with class three tire size is it punishes builders rather than leveling the playing field. Because a 7" tire would be horrid on a class 3 course with a minumum of 13" gates. Everyone knows this who drives well. But scale is all about looks. And sometimes having the option for larger scale tires is nice. And for someone that wants to get into the comp side of scale they don't have to ditch their current tires.

Just saying....

[holycaveman]

And that being said my new class 3 will have cut n shuts at around 5" intention is to dominate. Let someone run a 6" tire. Will not make a difference.

[youngblood]

Originally Posted by doublej

At this point, I am pretty sure if you do that the rules will get changed and anyone that runs a Tech table will hate you and Proline.

Majority of the reason the rule is written the way it is, is to save on time and yet another thing to look at during Tech. Once you know which tires fit where, it is a glance and your on to looking at other things. And when you are looking at 150 rigs, within 30min to an hour - We don't need to make it harder.

This is a weak excuse.

We never had a problem measuring tires at the national comp events with hundreds of rigs going through tech inspection.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

since we're talking tires... I'd really like to be able to narrow C1 tires!
They are all so damn wide.

Sorry, don't see that changing any time soon. There's a HUGE variety of Class 1 tires these days. I'm sure you can find something that fits and looks good.

Originally Posted by holycaveman

All this aside. 5.75 is a strange stopping point. As far as that goes why even have a limit on class 3 tires size? It's a 13 minumum gate. Less than comp crawlers.

That gate size dictates tire size. Problem with class three tire size is it punishes builders rather than leveling the playing field. Because a 7" tire would be horrid on a class 3 course with a minumum of 13" gates. Everyone knows this who drives well. But scale is all about looks. And sometimes having the option for larger scale tires is nice. And for someone that wants to get into the comp side of scale they don't have to ditch their current tires.

Just saying....

When we were making the tire size rules, I think 5.5" were the biggest tires you could buy. We figured people could cobble together some taller tires if they wanted. Then manufacturers started making all their tires 5.75" to fit within the rules (because everyone will buy the biggest tires they can) and here we sit. Make the max size 6" and everyone will make 6" tires. Next thing you know every ones running giant unscale looking tires. It's just not necessary....

Originally Posted by holycaveman

And that being said my new class 3 will have cut n shuts at around 5" intention is to dominate. Let someone run a 6" tire. Will not make a difference.

My Class 3 Trooper has cut down RB2's that are 5.25" tall. I love them, and they do pretty good.

Originally Posted by youngblood

This is a weak excuse.

We never had a problem measuring tires at the national comp events with hundreds of rigs going through tech inspection.

You didn't have to tech scale points either so it's a strong excuse. Unless you've teched 100+ SCALE rigs at a large event, you have no clue....

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Sorry, don't see that changing any time soon. There's a HUGE variety of Class 1 tires these days. I'm sure you can find something that fits and looks good.

Not a lot for 1.55's that aren't super wide.

[holycaveman]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

Not a lot for 1.55's that aren't super wide.

I have to agree. Why punish the builder? If you think you can make your tires more scale go for it! Labor of love here.

The rules could still state that you can't chang tread design or remove lugs. And it's one more detail a scale builder can add to his truck.

[doublej]

Originally Posted by holycaveman

I have to agree. Why punish the builder? If you think you can make your tires more scale go for it! Labor of love here.

The rules could still state that you can't chang tread design or remove lugs. And it's one more detail a scale builder can add to his truck.

Problem is where do you stop? When do you start having to measure tires?
Tire mods come up a lot - And I agree that I would love to make a wider tire for my Class2 or a skinner tire to my Class1.....
Sometimes people pick a body then build a killer rig... except they can't make the tires they want fit within the rules.....

At some point the Rule Guys have to stick their guns and say No, if for no other reason but it WILL open the flood gates.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by holycaveman

I have to agree. Why punish the builder? If you think you can make your tires more scale go for it! Labor of love here.

The rules could still state that you can't chang tread design or remove lugs. And it's one more detail a scale builder can add to his truck.

The issue with that is:

Most people don't want to make it look more scale, they want to chop up a tire and get any kind of performance advantage they can. Start allowing tire mods in Class 1 and we'll have 1.55 Rock Beasts that don't look scale at all.....hopefully we get more smaller tires from manufacturers soon (C'mon Pitbull, I know I want a 4 inch tall 1.55 Rock Beast).

[johnnyh66]

The rule has always been outside diameter... leave that as is and allow narrow

[holycaveman]

Originally Posted by War Pig

The issue with that is:

Most people don't want to make it look more scale, they want to chop up a tire and get any kind of performance advantage they can. Start allowing tire mods in Class 1 and we'll have 1.55 Rock Beasts that don't look scale at all.....hopefully we get more smaller tires from manufacturers soon (C'mon Pitbull, I know I want a 4 inch tall 1.55 Rock Beast).

I know what you mean. But people need to realize they lose because they drove worse than the other guy.

I ran a nice event in Penn this last weekend. I ran class 3 with my class two. Smallest tires and no dig or 4ws. The course was completely laid out for 4ws and most everyone ran it. I ended up winning class 3 against some good drivers.

It's all driver. That is why I always push scale rather than if someone "may" have an advantage. You definitely need rules. So i am all for rules. Just would like a little more freedom to create.

[holycaveman]

Originally Posted by doublej

Problem is where do you stop? When do you start having to measure tires?
Tire mods come up a lot - And I agree that I would love to make a wider tire for my Class2 or a skinner tire to my Class1.....
Sometimes people pick a body then build a killer rig... except they can't make the tires they want fit within the rules.....

At some point the Rule Guys have to stick their guns and say No, if for no other reason but it WILL open the flood gates.

Catch is, the flood gates only include a very small number of people. I mean right now you can make a 5.75" tire in class 3. But who actually does it? One or two? And what advantage do they have? They are not winning. But they were able to create something they wanted to try out.

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by holycaveman

Catch is, the flood gates only include a very small number of people. I mean right now you can make a 5.75" tire in class 3. But who actually does it? One or two? And what advantage do they have? They are not winning. But they were able to create something they wanted to try out.

Before PL added the 1.9 XL

[holycaveman]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

Before PL added the 1.9 XL

Cheater!


Johnny has beat me before. And it wasn't because he had an unfair advantage. It's because he drove like hell. I didn't cut him any slack either.

Can't wait till next event Johnny. Hopfully in the Rockies!

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by holycaveman

Cheater!

NIRC Leagal!

Originally Posted by holycaveman

Johnny has beat me before. And it wasn't because he had an unfair advantage. It's because he drove like hell. I didn't cut him any slack either.

Can't wait till next event Johnny. Hopfully in the Rockies!

Hopefully, we'll get a few chances to compete this year

[doublej]

Originally Posted by holycaveman

Catch is, the flood gates only include a very small number of people. I mean right now you can make a 5.75" tire in class 3. But who actually does it? One or two? And what advantage do they have? They are not winning. But they were able to create something they wanted to try out.

I think more people do Cut and Shuts then your giving credit for. I also think the guys "winning" that do not are because the tires available are on the high side of being good enough.

There always the ifs, ands, buts - Which is why I stand beside my comment: Where do you draw the line?
How is it not fair for all as is? And if the ruling was changed for this tire debate (ex. raise the Class3 size) how could they not change the other tire rules (ex. cut and shuts legal in C1)......
It would never end. But that's my 2 cents - we all have at least that.

[holycaveman]

Not to be a smart ass. Just making a point. If you can divide knuckle weights like the current rules. You certainly can make a tire change for class 3 only.

That said I always am 100% by the rules. I don't even want to push grey areas. I want to win and win legally.

So take my comments here as ideas/suggestions. Definitely not arguing about anything. What ever is decided I will comply with and come comp time I will be legal. And as always I appreciate all the hard work people do to make scale a fun time for everyone!

[hotwheels000]

"Spirit of scale" I have heard that used a lot in explanations !

I do get the max size and not changing that to a point.

What I dont get is why a tire that has multiple renditions from the same manufacture and many other similar tread designs from other manufactures...

Why would it be deemed illegal in class 3 to reduce the size to fit the rules just becuase of the clause in the rules that states "legal" tires only.

Seems to go against the spirit and the intent of the clause.

I dont have the verbage off the top of my head to fix or amend the wording, that would be something for committee to debate.

Surely there is a way to acomplish just that without harming the integrity of the rule.

[GiJoe]

Are the manufacturer spec we adhere to "mounted" or "unmounted"?

I always assumed mounted...till I read up on the PitBull XOR. They give two dimensions...
5.5" mounted (which can vary depending on foam or rim), or..... 5.25" unmounted.

When building from scratch, this is kind of a big deal to help determine cab height vs. Manufacturer tire height ratio in Class 3. I want to keep body as low as possible.