Alternative Shock Suggestions!

[Blaze0303]

I’m looking for alternative shocks for a bit more articulation and for a more consistent feel. Every time I rebuild the stock shocks, no matter what I do they all feel different and rebound at different speeds.

I know everyone says just run the stocks and honestly if they had a bleed valve they’d probably be great, but they just aren’t for me.

Is there a good 100mm shock out there people use? My rig is just shy of 8lbs.

[DrIsotope]

I was initially skeptical of Desert Lizards (internal springs? Harumph!) but now I'm absolutely sold on them. They're well made, they look good, and it doesn't hurt that they come with a full range of springs and pistons, as well as a spare set of seals. I don't hesitate to recommend.

[Blaze0303]

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

I was initially skeptical of Desert Lizards (internal springs? Harumph!) but now I'm absolutely sold on them. They're well made, they look good, and it doesn't hurt that they come with a full range of springs and pistons, as well as a spare set of seals. I don't hesitate to recommend.

Good to hear, what length are you running?

[DrIsotope]

I have a set of 90mm on a TRX-4, and a set of 120mm on a 4-link, 4WS rig I'm building. I run the TRX-4 in pretty much "droop only," the truck has maybe 3mm of uptravel. Gotta counter that 2.5lb body somehow.

They are pretty heavily damped, even with the 4-hole pistons. I run 20wt in them on both rigs, seems pretty balanced.

[DPesonen]

I'm looking at 110 or 120mm Desert Lizards, with aftermarket towers. My goal to try, is build a droop shock, that has same 'stuff' into the wheelwell as the stock shocks, and same static height, but with ability to drop a wheel far out if needed. So for this, the bottom of the main body will have to be at same height in chassis as the stock ones. Giving the same 'stuff' But with much longer shock rod to drop out farther

[DrIsotope]

Before I decided to try the Desert Lizards, I did pretty much that exact thing with my Sport-- I'm running the long-travel GTS shocks from the high-lift kit, with aftermarket shock towers and shock keys. The truck sits lower than stock at rest, but has a ton of droop. I'd put Desert LIzards on it, but I finally got the right springs and oil sorted out with the long GTS, so no point in messing with it.

[Blaze0303]

Thanks for the replies, I think I'm going to give 90mm desert lizards a shot. Im in the same boat where I want more droop but don't want to rise the ride height

[Benp]

I run the 110 desert lizards.

Get an additional set of springs for both front and rear.

I run small softs for both springs and 15wt oil.





Ride height here is a little lower than stock to the skid








It has been a lot of fiddling/tinkering to get it close to doing well.

Traverses very well across items. Going up is another story. The front unloads and raises up which can introduce front driveline bind.

I’ve been very pleased with the desert lizard shocks. Zero leaks considering how many times I’ve had them apart.

ETA - highly recommend the dynamite e clip tool.

No way I’d of had these shocks apart so much with out it.

[Blaze0303]

Thanks for sharing, you look like youre pretty close to what I want out of my rig. I did end up buying the 90mm and I'm going to give them a shot on droop and see what I get. Worst case is they don't work out and get moved over to my Capra build.

[DRED805]

Originally Posted by DPesonen

I'm looking at 110 or 120mm Desert Lizards, with aftermarket towers. My goal to try, is build a droop shock, that has same 'stuff' into the wheelwell as the stock shocks, and same static height, but with ability to drop a wheel far out if needed. So for this, the bottom of the main body will have to be at same height in chassis as the stock ones. Giving the same 'stuff' But with much longer shock rod to drop out farther

That is exactly how I currently have my SCX10 II set up, but with 100mm desert lizards.

The shocks are set up with soft springs in droop, the way they come in the box. Short spring under the plunger, medium length spring on the outside. I have the tops angled out of the way so the shocks will be fully compressed at the same time that the links bottom out, allowing the most droop possible. FYI, my rear axle is kicked out an inch farther than stock, so that's how I was able to get such a big angle on the rear shocks.

It's super flexy, which is fun, but I was getting frustrated with it over the weekend. While climbing, the front suspension will unload way too much, making it unstable. My plan is to switch the short and medium springs inside the shock, so the medium spring will fight it from extending so easily. If that doesn't work, a heavier spring under the plunger might help. I haven't had time to rebuild the shocks and do some tests, but that's my plan. I didn't take any pictures this weekend, but I'll attach a couple from my desk to give you an idea.

Also, I wouldn't go much longer than 100mm in the front because as it droops, the axle will get pulled over by the Panhard bar. I have a long standout on the passenger side top (in addition to the thickness of the relocation bracket) to keep the shock body from hitting the frame, even with the 100mm shocks. I know they're different trucks, but I don't see why they would act any differently.

[Blaze0303]

Okay so I did a test setup with no oil and this is where I am so far. I setup the front with droop and the rears as regular sprung. Softs all the way around, which seem like they're too soft, so now I think mediums for the droop springs and soft for everything else and just see where that lands me.

[Benp]

Originally Posted by DRED805

It's super flexy, which is fun, but I was getting frustrated with it over the weekend. While climbing, the front suspension will unload way too much, making it unstable. My plan is to switch the short and medium springs inside the shock, so the medium spring will fight it from extending so easily. If that doesn't work, a heavier spring under the plunger might help. I haven't had time to rebuild the shocks and do some tests, but that's my plan. I didn't take any pictures this weekend, but I'll attach a couple from my desk to give you an idea.

.

I like your rig! Nice job!

I wish the desert lizards came in 105s. For
Me that’d of been perfect.

I run both small softs in the shock because I don’t want much pressure or resistance going out or in.

I want the weight of the wheel to pull the shock down. Not pushed by the spring. And I want the shock to compress easy back to normal ride height.

I also have the issue of the front unloading when going up. I tried heavier weight oil, 40wt, and that slowed the upward rise BUT it also really slowed how fast the truck came back to normal ride height. So that was no good. If I could get that figured out, I’d be set.

It’s definitely a lot of test and tune. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I’m lucky to have rock walls at home that I can be trying out changes in a few minutes after they’re made.

[Blaze0303]

Well I filled them with 20wt oil and so far it seems like this is going to be a really good improvement. Front has soft springs setup for droop, rear just has the large soft spring. I did this in an effort to get the truck to try to keep the nose down on steep ascents.



Side hill angle went up 4 degrees from 39 to 43
Climbing angle went up 3 degrees from 50 to 53

Front articulation is 5"
Rear is 5.5"

Hopefully this translates to better climbing at the course this weekend.

[DRED805]

I finally spent a few hours rebuilding the desert lizards, and messing around with spring combos.

I landed on the medium-length softest spring under the plunger, and the shortest length medium-weight spring outside the plunger. That way the longer soft spring immediately starts fighting droop while vertical, but is still soft enough to fully droop while flexing. The small heavier spring keeps the COG low on flat ground without it just being bottomed out all the time, and it fully compresses while flexed.

I ran it this afternoon for a few hours, and I'm definitely happy with it. Just as flexy as before, and doesn't wanna flip backwards all the time.

According to my bathroom scale just now, it's on the heavier side of a scx10 II at 8.8 pounds, for comparison.

[Blaze0303]

Originally Posted by DRED805

I finally spent a few hours rebuilding the desert lizards, and messing around with spring combos.

I landed on the medium-length softest spring under the plunger, and the shortest length medium-weight spring outside the plunger. That way the longer soft spring immediately starts fighting droop while vertical, but is still soft enough to fully droop while flexing. The small heavier spring keeps the COG low on flat ground without it just being bottomed out all the time, and it fully compresses while flexed.

I ran it this afternoon for a few hours, and I'm definitely happy with it. Just as flexy as before, and doesn't wanna flip backwards all the time.

According to my bathroom scale just now, it's on the heavier side of a scx10 II at 8.8 pounds, for comparison.

Very interesting, I did try the medium springs for a brief while, but they were but too stiff. But I like thought behind this setup. I may have to try it myself.

[Benp]

Originally Posted by DRED805

I finally spent a few hours rebuilding the desert lizards, and messing around with spring combos.

I landed on the medium-length softest spring under the plunger, and the shortest length medium-weight spring outside the plunger. That way the longer soft spring immediately starts fighting droop while vertical, but is still soft enough to fully droop while flexing. The small heavier spring keeps the COG low on flat ground without it just being bottomed out all the time, and it fully compresses while flexed.

I ran it this afternoon for a few hours, and I'm definitely happy with it. Just as flexy as before, and doesn't wanna flip backwards all the time.

According to my bathroom scale just now, it's on the heavier side of a scx10 II at 8.8 pounds, for comparison.

Nice!!!

Keep the experimenting coming!

I had an interesting observation the other day when it was hot out.

Going from a 70 degree AC house out to hot weather (8O+ in the shade) caused the shock oil to get weird. I have 15wt in there and the 3 hole pistons.

The shocks would not settle back down to ride height without pushing down on the rig. Even after pushing down, the shocks would push out and raise up bit.

I had the term for this when it happened but my old brain is not cooperating.

So my next tinkering will be swap in the 4 hole pistons in (I didn’t realize stock traxxas were 4) and dump the oil. I’ll see if running no oil will be an improvement.

[DPesonen]

Originally Posted by Benp

Nice!!!

Keep the experimenting coming!

I had an interesting observation the other day when it was hot out.

Going from a 70 degree AC house out to hot weather (8O+ in the shade) caused the shock oil to get weird. I have 15wt in there and the 3 hole pistons.

The shocks would not settle back down to ride height without pushing down on the rig. Even after pushing down, the shocks would push out and raise up bit.

I had the term for this when it happened but my old brain is not cooperating.

So my next tinkering will be swap in the 4 hole pistons in (I didn’t realize stock traxxas were 4) and dump the oil. I’ll see if running no oil will be an improvement.

It's the air in the shock expanding. The Silicone Shock oil is very stable thermally for both viscosity and thermal expansion. But air however. Same thing happen to non vented tires.

[Blaze0303]

So here's an update on this. I pulled off the Desert Lizards to rebuild them and decided to try the Capra stock shocks I had. These were far too firm for the light weight of the Capra but, oh my gosh. These might be it guys, I need to shoot a video of them running because the truck behaves SO well with them.

Stock Capra Shocks with 35wt oil, red springs (softest) netted me 6" of travel and the smoothest this truck has ever behaved. I am afraid the side hilling is going to suck though, they might need pen springs or heavier oil to help.

[Benp]

Originally Posted by DPesonen

It's the air in the shock expanding. The Silicone Shock oil is very stable thermally for both viscosity and thermal expansion. But air however. Same thing happen to non vented tires.

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by Blaze0303

So here's an update on this. I pulled off the Desert Lizards to rebuild them and decided to try the Capra stock shocks I had. These were far too firm for the light weight of the Capra but, oh my gosh. These might be it guys, I need to shoot a video of them running because the truck behaves SO well with them.

Stock Capra Shocks with 35wt oil, red springs (softest) netted me 6" of travel and the smoothest this truck has ever behaved. I am afraid the side hilling is going to suck though, they might need pen springs or heavier oil to help.

Interesting!

What length are the stock Capra shocks?

I’d be super interested in a video!

[Blaze0303]

Originally Posted by Benp

Awesome! Thanks for the info!





Interesting!

What length are the stock Capra shocks?

I’d be super interested in a video!

They are about 95-98mm, the red springs seems to work really well. I’m going to pull them apart and pen spring mod them though.