How is Overdrive % calculated?

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by DRED805

I've given you the correct information. Provided multiple examples, and backed it up with text and video supporting the information from two major RC companies. I understand you want to be right, but you're not. There's nothing else I can say. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

And I've posted data that shows the figures I've posted ARE correct. You can dispute the 25% UD & 33% OD figures I've posted all you want...but, even basic math proves those figures are accurate. As for the Fricker's "stirring up sh*t" comment, that's not what I'm doing...but, whatever...and, as for your "if you don't get it" comment, I won't even bother.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by DRED805

Fast forward to 6 minutes. Vanquish, Holmes, TGH, and everyone else in the industry must be wrong I guess...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZS3i59okq4

What he's talking about at that point in the video has no correlation to what I was asking.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[DRED805]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

You can dispute the 25% UD & 33% OD figures I've posted all you want...but, even basic math proves those figures are accurate.

I'm not disputing that you can figure out the percent change between 15 and 20... and reversely from 20 to 15. I posted the exact same values in post #32, using the same wording Holmes used. You have to add them together and divide by 2... which gives you the average (mean). That is how the RC industry calculates overdrive.

[DRED805]

Are you getting too caught up on overdrive, vs underdrive?... They're the same thing. Vanquish uses the term underdrive, so us cretins understand those gears are slower than normal.

[DRED805]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

I'm gonna pistol whip the next guy that says overdrive...

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by DRED805

Are you getting too caught up on overdrive, vs underdrive?... They're the same thing. Vanquish uses the term underdrive, so us cretins understand those gears are slower than normal.

That's just it...uunderdrive & overdrive, while 'associated', are NOT "the same thing" (at least where percentages are concerned). Instead of going by tooth counts, let's just look at numbers...specifically 75 & 100 (both simple numbers for calculating). Think of 100 as the 'pinion', and 75 as the 'spur'. You can agree that 25% less than 100 is 75 (ie. (100÷4)×3), correct? Likewise, you can agree that a 1/3 increase of 75 is 100 (ie. (75÷3)×4), correct?

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by DRED805

I'm gonna pistol whip the next guy that says overdrive...

I’m right there with you

Originally Posted by Panther6834

That's just it...uunderdrive & overdrive, while 'associated', are NOT "the same thing" (at least where percentages are concerned). Instead of going by tooth counts, let's just look at numbers...specifically 75 & 100 (both simple numbers for calculating). Think of 100 as the 'pinion', and 75 as the 'spur'. You can agree that 25% less than 100 is 75 (ie. (100÷4)×3), correct? Likewise, you can agree that a 1/3 increase of 75 is 100 (ie. (75÷3)×4), correct?

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

How much more brain power are you going to use on this uselessness? You do this every time a opposing opinion comes upon you lol. Take your tire size thread, you start it asking questions about how to do something then tell everybody trying to help you that they are wrong and your way is right. And seeing these makes me, and I’m sure other people, wonder if you really want help or if you just want attention/someone to bicker with. Just an observation.

[high plains drifter]

"I'm not here to argue."

... continues arguing...

[DRED805]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

That's just it...uunderdrive & overdrive, while 'associated', are NOT "the same thing" (at least where percentages are concerned). Instead of going by tooth counts, let's just look at numbers...specifically 75 & 100 (both simple numbers for calculating). Think of 100 as the 'pinion', and 75 as the 'spur'. You can agree that 25% less than 100 is 75 (ie. (100÷4)×3), correct? Likewise, you can agree that a 1/3 increase of 75 is 100 (ie. (75÷3)×4), correct?

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

We've agreed on that the whole time. Check post #32. Your inability to grasp the next step makes me want to beat you to death with a shovel. Stick to being a chauffeur. The thing that literally anyone with a drivers license can do. ****in' miscreant.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by DRED805

We've agreed on that the whole time. Check post #32. Your inability to grasp the next step makes me want to beat you to death with a shovel. Stick to being a chauffeur. The thing that literally anyone with a drivers license can do. ****in' miscreant.

Originally Posted by DRED805

We've agreed on that the whole time. Check post #32. Your inability to grasp the next step makes me want to beat you to death with a shovel. Stick to being a chauffeur. The thing that literally anyone with a drivers license can do. ****in' miscreant.

Yes, I know those points were already agreed on. I started them this particular way for a reason. Since you agree on the figures stated, then you have no choice but to also agree with the following. 100 would equate to the 20T pinion, and 75 would equate to the 15T spur. Furthermore, since you agree that 75 is a 25% reduction from 100, and that 100 is a 33% (rounded) increase from 75, then you are agreeing that, based on the 20T/15T combo, it is the same as saying 25% UD, as well as 33% OD. Now, you're more than welcome to disagree again...but, in doing so it you're not only contradicting what you just said...but, in effect, good be disagreeing with yourself.

As for your last two sentences, they show a serious lack of intelligence on your part. No, it's NOT a job "anyone with a license can do. First, customer service positions (of all types) require one to be a "people person", which I HIGHLY doubt you are. Second, not everyone is capable of obtaining a commercial license, or of driving Class A/B vehicles. There's an old saying, "Ignorance is bliss.". You must have LOTS of 'bliss' in your life. Now, a job requiring the swinging a hammer, and using a tape measure, THAT'S something any idiot can do.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[DRED805]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

Yes, I know those points were already agreed on. I started them this particular way for a reason. Since you agree on the figures stated, then you have no choice but to also agree with the following. 100 would equate to the 20T pinion, and 75 would equate to the 15T spur. Furthermore, since you agree that 75 is a 25% reduction from 100, and that 100 is a 33% (rounded) increase from 75, then you are agreeing that, based on the 20T/15T combo, it is the same as saying 25% UD, as well as 33% OD. Now, you're more than welcome to disagree again...but, in doing so it you're not only contradicting what you just said...but, in effect, good be disagreeing with yourself.

As for your last two sentences, they show a serious lack of intelligence on your part. No, it's NOT a job "anyone with a license can do. First, customer service positions (of all types) require one to be a "people person", which I HIGHLY doubt you are. Second, not everyone is capable of obtaining a commercial license, or of driving Class A/B vehicles. There's an old saying, "Ignorance is bliss.". You must have LOTS of 'bliss' in your life. Now, a job requiring the swinging a hammer, and using a tape measure, THAT'S something any idiot can do.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

What the **** is wrong with you?

[ferp420]

the only way to solve this fued is to duel it out
pistol grips and crawlers at dawn at 20 pases from the rock
no rules no holds bared free for all street brawl
he who crawls last crawls best hahahaha ha ha hahahaha ha um ya

only thing left to do now is to decide if its gona happen at big sur or monteray
i vote for big sur cause its got better rocks

[high plains drifter]

I'm not quite understanding the chauffeur argument here. I mean, I am fairly dumb so it stands to reason that I'm indeed missing something here but I didn't think that in the state of California, someone was required to obtain a Class A or B permit in order to operate as a chauffeur. I was under the impression that a TCP was all that was required.

That also begs the question of whether customer service positions actually require someone to be a "people person"? I've never known that to be the case as the term is fairly subjective and certainly open to interpretation. It seems that a "people person" is not definitively defined in any context as it applies to someone seeking employment at literally any company or corporation.

I'm also not understanding the argument that "any idiot can swing a hammer" yet it takes some superior level of intelligence to operate a motor vehicle. Don't a good deal of idiots drive? I'm pretty sure that they do as I've seen quite a generous sampling of them throughout my life INCLUDING commercial drivers. And conversely, I'm not sure that "any idiot" should somehow be considered inherently capable of working construction, as I've worked alongside plenty of framers, GC's, plumbers, masons, electricians, etc that had a great deal of skill, as well as education and experience credentials. I'd even go so far as to guarantee that I wouldn't trust Panther6834 to perform ANY work on my home. DRED805 on the other hand, I certainly would.

Of course, all of this is simply my opinion. I surely wouldn't attempt to pass anything off as factual when in reality, it is not.

[ferp420]

my last exsperiance with a limo our entire group droped acid we were going to a dead show lol but that chauffeur had his hands full while we exploded out of the limo it must have been like herding sheep to get us all back in to that limo and to dennys and back to the house really took a special person heck for all i know it was panther drivin lol lahonda to oakland lol but iknow i couldent do that job theres more to it than just driving
as a carpenter my self ive seen alot of shit go bad from loosing didgits to having shit colaps on people people.walking off of roofs alot of stupid stuff so theres more to being a carpenter than bangin nails you never really notice a good carpenter but a bad one you can spot from a mile away cause of the missing body parts lol constructon isent a easy job and you really have to keep your whitts about ya or stuff goes by by real fast

once we start calling names and insulting each other nothing good will come of it
i say we settle.this on the rocks COME ON
monteray of big sur ?

[high plains drifter]

Originally Posted by ferp420

my last exsperiance with a limo our entire group droped acid we were going to a dead show lol but that chauffeur had his hands full while we exploded out of the limo it must have been like herding sheep to get us all back in to that limo and to dennys and back to the house really took a special person heck for all i know it was panther drivin lol lahonda to oakland lol but iknow i couldent do that job theres more to it than just driving
as a carpenter my self ive seen alot of shit go bad from loosing didgits to having shit colaps on people people.walking off of roofs alot of stupid stuff so theres more to being a carpenter than bangin nails you never really notice a good carpenter but a bad one you can spot from a mile away cause of the missing body parts lol constructon isent a easy job and you really have to keep your whitts about ya or stuff goes by by real fast

once we start calling names and insulting each other nothing good will come of it
i say we settle.this on the rocks COME ON
monteray of big sur ?

Yeah... This was going to take a hard turn no matter what imo. But the insults will kill it quicker than most anything. And I'm really not going there although some of these posts started to make me again ponder some of the points made, in regards to authenticity and integrity. Generally in these types of spiraling threads, I'll keep my opinions to myself, but not always.

And there ain't no way that a "simple" crawl-off would end any better or with everyone agreeing on a clear winner lol. There's always gonna be at least one guy that cries "foul".

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by DRED805

What the **** is wrong with you?

I should be the one asking you that question, as you're the one getting vulgar. After all, you're the one who started putting me down...not the other way around. You don't see me calling you a sh!t**"*, or an a$$****, do you? Quit acting like a child (the country had enough of that with Trump), and act like an adult.

And, for the record, only a Class C licence is needed for driving a vehicle that carries less than 9 passengers (sedan, SUV, "short" stretch). Anything carrying 10 passengers, or more, requires a Class A/B, and a "passenger endorsement". On to of that, any vehicles with air brakes (as is the case with a semi, motorcoach, and many other large vehicles) requires an "airbrake endorsement". On top of all that, if driving children for school activities, one misty also have a SPAB certificate. The license, be itself, is ready enough to obtain, as is the passenger endorsement...but, the airbrake endorsement & SPAB certificate require comparably more training, more testing (written & skills), and (in the case of SPAB) considerably more money to obtain. Then, of course, there's the cost of the driving schools, which cost a minimum of $2,500, and usually involve a minimum of 60 hours of training (with SPAB, you can double that).

Moving on..........

We all agree on the 75-100 matter (from earlier posts)...and, as such, something else that everyone can agree on is this: whatever the number of front output rotations over the number of rear rotations, that is the OD (not saying 'ratio', or 'percentage', just the OD "in general"). If the rear rotates 10x, and the front rotates 11x, we all agree that the front OD is 10%. Likewise, if the front rotates 13x, we all agree the OD is 30%. After all, it doesn't take any formula to determine "multiples & divisions of 10". Briefly going back to the 20T/14T combo, you stated that the formula you (and many others) follow shows that combo to have a 35% OD. By the math that the automotive industry follows, it should be a 42.85714286% OD (rounded to 43%).

To prove which stated OD...35% or 43%...is correct, I won't use any math. NO 'formulas'. Instead I'll shoot a video, rotating the rear output shaft (same as the trans input shaft) 100 times. As 100 equates to 100%, any number of rotations of the front shaft beyond 100 is equal to the actual OD percent. It doesn't get any simpler...and, it is impossible to dispute 'whatever' the outcome is. If the front rotates 115x, we'd all agree the OD was 15%. If the front rotates 130x, we'd all agree the OD was 30%.

So...if the front rotates 135x, I won't "run away with my tail between my legs"...I promise that I WILL admit the formula you, and others, have been using is correct. At the same time, if the front rotates 142-143x, that would be indisputable proof that the formula you (and others) have been using is wrong...that there is a "flaw" in the 'formula'.

If you truly believe your formula to be accurate, and you're open to proving, once an for all, whether (or not) it is accurate, you'll have no problem with the proposed video. The alternative is, you can continue bad-mouthing me, continue telling me I'm wrong, and continue acting childish. I'm willing to settle this like an adult, by doing this the one (and only) way to provide indisputable proof...again, whatever the outcome might be.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by high plains drifter

Yeah... This was going to take a hard turn no matter what imo. But the insults will kill it quicker than most anything. And I'm really not going there although some of these posts started to make me again ponder some of the points made, in regards to authenticity and integrity. Generally in these types of spiraling threads, I'll keep my opinions to myself, but not always.

And there ain't no way that a "simple" crawl-off would end any better or with everyone agreeing on a clear winner lol. There's always gonna be at least one guy that cries "foul".

In complete agreement. When I initially added my 'inquiry', it had nothing to do with Vanquish's 'error'. It was a simple question about calculating OD percentage. There is so much online about calculating OD/UD ratios, but sinister nothing about OD/UD percentages. I did find as few online calculators. Unfortunately, almost all of them were for multi-gear (ie. 1:1 vehicles) transmissions.

Of the few I came across for T-cases, its was almost a 50-50 split of outcomes using two different formulas - some producing results equal to the figures given by DREF805, and others producing results equal to what I've stated. If they're producing different results, it is obvious that approx half of them are using an 'incorrect' formula...and, I've just been attempting to determine which is correct.

As you said, the "badmouthing" only makes matters worse (I do my best to refrain, and, as can easily be noticed, I'm never (to the best of my recollection) the one to start)...and, as for someone's "crawl-off" idea of that neither 'proves ', nor 'solves', anything. That is why I proposed the video (in my last post), as that would, beyond a shadow-of-a-doubt, prove which formula was correct. If the rear shaft rotated 100x, whatever the number of front rotations beyond 100 were to be, that would be an indisputable figure, and also the true/accurate OD percentage.

While I await DRED805's reply, I'm going to shoot the video. I don't care if he's right, or if I'm right...who's "right" is NOT what's important. What IS important...the ONLY important thing...is 'how' to correctly/accurately calculate the OD.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by high plains drifter

Yeah... This was going to take a hard turn no matter what imo. But the insults will kill it quicker than most anything. And I'm really not going there although some of these posts started to make me again ponder some of the points made, in regards to authenticity and integrity. Generally in these types of spiraling threads, I'll keep my opinions to myself, but not always.

And there ain't no way that a "simple" crawl-off would end any better or with everyone agreeing on a clear winner lol. There's always gonna be at least one guy that cries "foul".

i dont care enuff about over/under to think about it lol it was like watching a train wreck i just couldent turn away



if the crawl off dosent work there in the same place so atleast they can fight it out lol

[ferp420]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

"crawl-off" idea of that neither 'proves ', nor 'solves', anything.
~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

it would be fun though

Originally Posted by ferp420

if the crawl off dosent work there in the same place so atleast they can fight it out lol

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by ferp420

it would be fun though

I'm a non-violent person (ok, so I try to be as much as possible), so that wouldn't help...plus, it still wouldn't prove anything. As for the "crawl off", that's what competitions are for. Next year, Scale Nats should be back in "the West"...and, as I was there last year, I should be there next year. Not that I'll be competing with it, but I do plan on bringing my Phoenix (whatever the ODs might be).

I'll also bring the "project" that this whole OD situation was about. The reason (as stated in another thread) for knowing the front OD has to do with running different diameter front-rear tires. The front will be running smaller diameter tires on 1.9s, and the rear will be running larger diameter tires on 2.2s. The 'problem' (all along) has been to help determine what those tire diameters need to be, as I don't want to "drag" the front OR rear tires.

With Josh's vehicle, its was important because he was running a standard axle up front, and a portal in the rear...in my case, it's because of running different diameter tires front/rear. In short, I'm building a "Mad Max" themed vehicle, built on a Cross RC HC4 chassis . Hopefully, with that knowledge, everyone will understand why the OD 'problem' matters so much.

~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place