Jato VRD Carbon

[JatoTheRipper]

I have been wanting one of these Vanquish VRD Carbon kits for a while. And when my impatient self says a while, I mean for the month or two since I regained interest in RC and watched a few videos of this truck. I want it all and I want it NOW! It's tough living life expecting everything to be like Burger King - "Your way right away".

My plan is to build this chassis stock. I obviously have to add a body, electronics and wheels, tires and foams, but otherwise I will start stock. Then I will adjust or modify it from there based on how I feel it performs. I have a Fusion Pro 2300Kv on the way. I am anxious to try this all-in-one motor or 2-in-1 as they call it. The other possible option was an outrunner motor and a newfangled AM32 ESC with the Stubby kit and BTA servo, but that's a lot more added cost. I decided on the Fusion Pro because I love the idea of this motor and not having to solder or deal with as many wires and this is the more economical option. So I was being financially responsible with this choice...right

I do have to decide on servo as well. There have been a few new servo companies pop up during my absence from RC. Once you get a high-quality servo like Tekin or a direct power unit like Holmes Hobbies SHV500, you don't want to go back to cheap and weak servos. It looks like Holmes got out of the servo business though...


The kit box is tiny. I have never seen a smaller box for a chassis kit. Not including the body, wheels and tires saves a lot of space.




Le manuael. Vanquish manuals are typically pretty good, but they can have errors and sometimes their exploded diagrams aren't 100% clear about where spacers, shims and hardware are supposed to be installed.




Bag A - Front Axle




This is my first time building a plastic-axle Vanquish kit and I am seriously impressed by the axle housing. It feels really beefy. It is solid, stiff and has some weight too it. This should withstand a bunch of abuse.




Here is the front ring and pinion gears as well as the bearing carriers. (Originally I stated that these are overdrive gears, but they are not. This is the standard axle ratio. The overdrive comes from the portal gears.) The screws did not go nicely into the spool. My memory is a dim bulb, but I kind of remember this being an issue on other Vanquish kits. It's almost like the hole centers in the gear do not 100% align with the hole centers in the spool. Yes, I tightened it in a cross or star pattern. In the end it went together, but the screws do kind of grind as they are going in.

Also, I am not a fan of the plastic bearing carriers. This is mainly because you are threading screws into thin-wall plastic that holds the carriers and ring gear and spool assembly in place on the axle housing. If Vanquish offered these as an aluminum option, I would probably upgrade. The bearing carriers are aluminum in the aluminum axle kits from Vanquish.




Stout! The brass axle "weight" inserts seem like kind of a joke. They will definitely help reinforce the axle housing, but they are so thin that they do not add much weight. I would have weighed these if I had known where my scale is hiding. Does anybody know the weights of these brass axle weights that go inside the Vanquish F10 portal axle housings?




Axle mounted servo mount installed. It is kind of crazy how this is where we started, then we got super scale and went to chassis mounted servo (CMS) and now we are back to this. I wonder if Vanquish will offer an aluminum upgrade mount. The BTA mount is aluminum.




Now we haz front axle assembly. I like the thin tie rod and drag link as long as they withstand abuse and tumbles on the rocks.

The cast portal weights are also a nice design. I like that they are an integral portal cap and not tacked on. The casting is nice quality.




Quality builds are always nice. Things go together as designed, fit is nice and tight, and the assembled product feels high quality. This makes for a fun build. I am looking forward to the rest of this kit.

[Col_Sanders]

Holmes isn't out of the servo game. They're redoing the lineup and sounds like they are going to offer fewer models. A few months ago they posted on their FB that they had a new low profile SHV650 coming out, then they said it was delayed, then they deleted both posts. I ended up buying an NSDRC RS700V2, which lasted about 15 minutes before getting scorching hot and not working any more. They sent me a replacement pretty quick but I havent tried it yet.

VP finally have aluminum third members for the F10 portals and those do come with aluminum bearing carriers. I do wish they offered them separately though. As for the screws in the ring gear/spool being tight, I assumed they did this intentionally, as the screws are kinda splined on the head. Figured that would help prevent them from backing out but I could be wrong.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Col_Sanders

Holmes isn't out of the servo game. They're redoing the lineup and sounds like they are going to offer fewer models. A few months ago they posted on their FB that they had a new low profile SHV650 coming out, then they said it was delayed, then they deleted both posts. I ended up buying an NSDRC RS700V2, which lasted about 15 minutes before getting scorching hot and not working any more. They sent me a replacement pretty quick but I havent tried it yet.

VP finally have aluminum third members for the F10 portals and those do come with aluminum bearing carriers. I do wish they offered them separately though. As for the screws in the ring gear/spool being tight, I assumed they did this intentionally, as the screws are kinda splined on the head. Figured that would help prevent them from backing out but I could be wrong.

Interesting. I see a listing for 500 and 650 gears on this site, but that's it.

I read either great or terrible things about NSDRC and seemingly nothing in between. That's concerning.

That would mean the screw head needs to have some type of interference fit. I have never heard of socket head cap screws being used that way, but I learn something new every day.

[B-MOW71]

Nice to see another VRD build. These are damn nice kits like all other VP kits.

The F10 axles in both the portal and straight are my favorites. The are beefy and slither over the rocks very well. I hear ya on the plastic bearing carriers. It was a concern of mine, but once they are installed they hold everything nice and tight. I haven't had any issues with any of my axles. I have thought about buying the aluminum third members, but they will wait until there is a problem with the plastic ones.

I too have had the same screw issue with all of my VP ring gear and spools. The screw heads have always been tight going in, but I just assumed it was to keep the ring gear locked into place with out any slop in the mounting. I do just start each screw and then tighten them down slowly just like you said you did. VP may have done this on purpose. I rarely see a flaw in machining from them ever or should I say I have never seen a flaw in any of their machined parts.

Enjoy the build and I'll be following along to see more!

[JatoTheRipper]

I spend a lot of time at my girlfriend's house these days and she lives 45 minutes away from me so RC build time is limited. Once we consolidate homes, I will ensure I have a workbench. We're talking about building a biggin to hold both cars, all of my motorcycles, and a workshop for me.

Anyway, let's get to the rear axle...the booty, the donkey, the peach... Notice the rear axle is Bag B for Best.




The ring and pinion gear are the same ratios as the front axle. The ring gear to spool assembly had the same feeling as the front where the screws do not go in 100% smoothly, but no real issue getting it assembled.




Here are the brass inserts for the rear axle housing. As mentioned previously, they are thin and barely add any weight. My scale is still missing so no weight for you!




Speaking of brass weights and Vanquish manual follies, do you see the problem? Yeah there is no long and short size on the rear axle. The diff is centered on the rear axle so the brass pieces are equal in length.




A look inside the axle with the solid, plastic housing behind the assembly of the third member and ring and pinion gears. I did not realize the VRD Carbon kit includes grease that is different than the "Gear Grease Rock Lube" from Vanquish. If I had known, I probably would have tried the new grease as applying with the tube would have been nice and easy. The kit grease appears to have a different consistency as well. Oh well. I am using the old Vanquish grease. I apply this old grease kind of thick because it does not like to stay put deep inside the teeth. Once the gears mesh and spin a few times, the excess grease is dispersed anyway. No harm no foul unless you don't want the extra weight of a few grams of excess lube.




The "fill cap' for the rear axle is made from aluminum and anodized in red. I think this is a very cool little touch. Vanquish could have easily molded this detail into the axle housing and saved a buck or two of cost. This little installation tool is included with the Vanquish logo and all.






Assembled rear axle. That was easy except for that fact that I forgot to install the one bearing. Despite Johnny 5's wishes, I had to disassemble.

[Col_Sanders]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Interesting. I see a listing for 500 and 650 gears on this site, but that's it.

I read either great or terrible things about NSDRC and seemingly nothing in between. That's concerning.

That would mean the screw head needs to have some type of interference fit. I have never heard of socket head cap screws being used that way, but I learn something new every day.

I will admit, when it was working, it was noticeably faster than the SHV650 and at first it felt more powerful. It would fade pretty quick though. In hindsight, it was probably just screwed up and overheating. When it died, it was too hot to touch. I finally wired the new one into my C1 this weekend and messed around with it for a bit. Felt really good but that was just on the bench. If this one turns out to be reliable, I'll put one in my C2. That extra speed over the 650 helps wiggle the truck around. Plus both or these trucks are running the servo behind the axle so the extra ground clearance is nice.

The red plug really pops and improves the look. I'm glad they did that.

[JatoTheRipper]

Next up was the chassis. I was really looking forward to this part as carbon fiber is always bad ass and I have never owned a flat-rail performance rig.




Did I say carbon fiber is awesome? Well yeah it is! Sexy! Rails are nicely cut and finished.




The crossmembers are simple and made from a strong feeling plastic. Bumpers are nice and minimal. I'm not sure why they chose to made the front bumper straight whereas the rear bumper points down a bit. You can flip it to point up, but remember we, and when I say we I mean I am building it stock and by the manual at first. They could have saved a design, mold, etc by using the front bumper on the rear, but for some reason, that may become apparent in the future, they used different parts. Not a bad thing though because now we have two options for bumpers.




Time for links. Links and shocks are probably tied for my second least favorite part of RC, both behind painting.

Sprues...ew! I am kind of mental about trimming sprues so this step can take me longer than it would for a sane human.




I ended up finding my old 3D printed Leaf Spring Mafia rod end tools that I designed and printed. I could not find my shock pliers at this point. Those have a much better pivot ball installer so we (again I mean me because if you are in my house well then get out!) struggled with this HobbyKing tool.

Assembled links. Rear lower links are of the high-clearance variety. Notice the upper links are made from smaller diameter material to save weight.




Links, skid plate and sliders installed on the chassis.




Three notes about the chassis.

1. The sliders are stamped and formed sheet metal and IMO they should not be. They should be molded plastic like on the VS4-10 rigs (save for the Origin with the aluminum sliders). I may make this change to plastic in the future.

2. The metal sliders appear to be painted rather than powder coated. Paint is a lot less durable than powder coat and some of the paint flaked off while tightening the screw that retains the sliders onto the chassis.

3. Lastly, when assembling chassis, I like to keep all screws loose until the end. Only then do I tighten all the screws once all the components are loosely together. I tried that with this chassis only to realize they put the screw heads for the rear upper links directly behind the metal sliders. Design fail here. So I had to Johnny 5 this one one to tigthen the rear upper link screws. Moving the location of the rear links on the chassis, should you choose to do so, will not be as simple of an affair as it should be.

[JatoTheRipper]

The D-bag that we know as Bag D was delayed pending the arrival of my Fusion 2300 Pro. I got both this motor and the VRD Carbon kit itself for 15% off on AMain. That was a significant savings of $87.






It is a good looking motor. The black and red theme will match the chassis perfectly!




I failed at this step and forgot to take photos. Stupid D-bag move.

There isn't much to note if you have already built a VFD transmission. I did have to struggle and really press this bearing on this gear. That will make it nearly impossible to remove come time to service the transmission and replace the bearing. Good thing maintenance is something I avoid as much as possible. I kind of remember having this issue on other VFD builds, but I could be having a false memory. My bulb is dimly lit these days probably the result of being concussed too many times...




I found it very interesting that Vanquish included a torque spec for the slipper plate shaft Nyloc nut. It's a nut holding a plate onto a shaft that has a shoulder. Also, a torque spec in a 1/10th RC build? Very unique. Most people probably do not even own a torque wrench that goes this low. Gun nuts will have one of these. I did not bother locating mine because, again, I do not understand the criticalness of the torque spec on this nut.




VFD transmission installed into the chassis and looking good. It is a "fusion' of chassis, motor and transmission.

[BLKXJ 96]

Great thread! I'm running the same setup as far as the Fusion 2300, I ran my Carbon for the first time last weekend and was very impressed. I see some guys running Revolvers, and they are also the guys not happy with the shock set up. I like the fact that my motor and esc are in the bottom of the truck, granted you can't run the BTA steering....so I picked a Shift Rc GT3s servo to cut down on some of the mass sitting on the front axle.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by BLKXJ 96

Great thread! I'm running the same setup as far as the Fusion 2300, I ran my Carbon for the first time last weekend and was very impressed. I see some guys running Revolvers, and they are also the guys not happy with the shock set up. I like the fact that my motor and esc are in the bottom of the truck, granted you can't run the BTA steering....so I picked a Shift Rc GT3s servo to cut down on some of the mass sitting on the front axle.

That's interesting the outrunner guys aren't happy with the shocks. Are they saying the springs are too stiff?

Thanks for the tip on the servo. I have never used a Shift RC product.

[Col_Sanders]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

That's interesting the outrunner guys aren't happy with the shocks. Are they saying the springs are too stiff?

Thanks for the tip on the servo. I have never used a Shift RC product.

Probably. Outrunners weigh less and then you're pushing that weight further back. I'd be curious to see a direct side by side performance comparison of a behind the axle servo and stubby kit against a stock setup.

I'm running a couple F10 portal rigs with behind the axle servo and an outrunner, but they are forward skid chassis so the motor is a c hair from the servo mount. All the weight is up front.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Col_Sanders

Probably. Outrunners weigh less and then you're pushing that weight further back. I'd be curious to see a direct side by side performance comparison of a behind the axle servo and stubby kit against a stock setup.

I'm running a couple F10 portal rigs with behind the axle servo and an outrunner, but they are forward skid chassis so the motor is a c hair from the servo mount. All the weight is up front.

I'd like to see that comparison too. Maybe YouTube has one.

Which brand are the chassis?

[Col_Sanders]

Exo Half Dome. The local groups follow Crawlapalooza rules for comps so I'm using that chassis for my Trail (C1) and Modified (C2) builds, along with his Alpinist transmission.

[BLKXJ 96]

Originally Posted by Col_Sanders

Probably. Outrunners weigh less and then you're pushing that weight further back. I'd be curious to see a direct side by side performance comparison of a behind the axle servo and stubby kit against a stock setup.

I'm running a couple F10 portal rigs with behind the axle servo and an outrunner, but they are forward skid chassis so the motor is a c hair from the servo mount. All the weight is up front.

Well, and that's what I was thinking, I'm curious too.....granted to run a BTA setup puts the weight of the servo way lower on the front axle and center of gravity comes into play. In my mind a shorter servo "should" weigh less (I never compared a GT3 to a GT3s in weight) so far it works very well and I ended up with a pretty good score at my last comp.

The other two guys that I comp with that run VRD's with revolvers and BTA steering think the shocks unload and make the truck unpredictable. Now they are chasing shock, oil, and spring setups. The shocks seem ok, I'd honestly like to see better shafts and a machined piston not something clipped off a parts tree. I had to trim a piston because it was sticking due to some flashing hanging up in the tube. It would be nice to see machined pistons, and a current Associated type shaft without E-Clips holding the piston to the shafts....for a truck of this caliber

I'm currently running box stock oil which I assume is 25wt or 27.5wt? My truck is 5.43LB, I've heard of guys running 50wt or more....Guess its what ever you like.

[bgredjeep]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

The brass axle "weight" inserts seem like kind of a joke. They will definitely help reinforce the axle housing, but they are so thin that they do not add much weight.

16grams fyi. That's what I got on my scale this evening while building my front axle. That's total for both tubes for the front housing.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by BLKXJ 96

Well, and that's what I was thinking, I'm curious too.....granted to run a BTA setup puts the weight of the servo way lower on the front axle and center of gravity comes into play. In my mind a shorter servo "should" weigh less (I never compared a GT3 to a GT3s in weight) so far it works very well and I ended up with a pretty good score at my last comp.

The other two guys that I comp with that run VRD's with revolvers and BTA steering think the shocks unload and make the truck unpredictable. Now they are chasing shock, oil, and spring setups. The shocks seem ok, I'd honestly like to see better shafts and a machined piston not something clipped off a parts tree. I had to trim a piston because it was sticking due to some flashing hanging up in the tube. It would be nice to see machined pistons, and a current Associated type shaft without E-Clips holding the piston to the shafts....for a truck of this caliber

I'm currently running box stock oil which I assume is 25wt or 27.5wt? My truck is 5.43LB, I've heard of guys running 50wt or more....Guess its what ever you like.

You can buy hardened shafts and machined pistons from Vanquish, but then you are putting money into these shocks that seem to be love them or hate them.

The e-clip has its advantages. Given two shock bodies of the same sizes, you can get more travel out of a shock with an e-clip versus a big nut on top.

Originally Posted by bgredjeep

16grams fyi. That's what I got on my scale this evening while building my front axle. That's total for both tubes for the front housing.

Thank you! 16 paper clips or a measly .564 ounces. They do add strength to the axle though and it's not bad extra weight for sure.

[JatoTheRipper]

This is the truck I'm most looking forward to running, but I have been slacking because it was my way to avoid building the shocks. I'm also still not sure I want to run the S8E shocks because they either leak like a sieve or don't leak at all depending on who you listen to.

I showed these parts on my bumpy eggplant (Fordyce for those of you with a clean mind) build thread, but still haven't used them so I may or may not use them on this truck.




I bought the Knipex pliers recommended by Vanquish for the snap rings on the shocks. I also ordered the hardened shock bodies and forgot those are included with the VRD Carbon kit.




I don't think that I've ever before wanted to strangle the engineer of an RC before, but in this case I did. The Knipex pliers do not work with these snap rings. Now I was stupidly trying to remove the snap rings to install the components in hardened bodies forgetting that these bodies included in the VRD Carbon kit are hardened. But do yourself a favor and avoid this "fun" task at all costs.




Another fatal flaw of this shock design is the effing pistons on a sprue. Keep the hardened bodies and give me machined pistons instead. I've cut hundreds if not thousands of model and RC parts off of sprues over the years and never had much of an issue. In this case, the one piston lost an "ear" when using my sidecutters. No idea how. I guess the fact that the sprue isn't much smaller than the piston ear didn't help nor did the compound of this plastic.

Another piston, shown below, looks perfectly cut and cleaned to me, but it really grabs the inside of the shock body during travel. Garbage pistons. Again, Vanquish should not have cheaped out here and included machined pistons rather than this garbage.




Semi-completed shocks just to get a slider at this point. The pistons will be switched to machined and I need to add oil. Leaning towards 50wt because apparently that is better in this shocks to avoid leaking rather than something light like the included 30wt.




Bag F was next. Driveshafts because this is a shafty for the old heads among us.




ABCDEF-U to these half collars that some manufacturers use. The ones that are full length are easier to use IMO. This was really the only notable item with the driveshafts.




Bag G contains the body posts and is more eventful than I had anticipated.




Vanquish made a silly design mistake here IMO. Engineering, like most anything in life, can be accomplished in many different ways and this is not the way I would have done it. The pin screw to adjust/mount the body posts install from the inside of the chassis. This means you have to angle your driver to tighten the screw. It would have been better and more convenient to move this hole 90 degrees to the end of the body post mount. This way you could have installed the screw from the rear of the chassis and not had to do any shady crap with your driver and risk rounding out the screw heads. Yes, this would have changed the mold, but not a showstopper by any means.




The front body post is held on by a screw that goes through the shock hollow ball, the spacer, the frame rail, the plastic frame stiffener and finally the body post. That's a lot of crap, but it does negate the need for a lot of other parts. This benefits us with a lighter weight than multiple screws and mounts.




Speaking in my best of the worst French accents, here is the chassis. Meatless slider if you are 'Merican!

I am awaiting my NSDRC black and orange 700 v2 servo. I also need to scalp the FlySky receiver from my Ultra if it has one. Otherwise I need to order it. Also need to figure out the shocks and order new ones or the parts to fix the included S8E's.

Overall it has been a very fun build. I am really looking forward to running this one.

[Col_Sanders]

Its a good lookin kit, but their shocks do suck. Some people say that the machined caps help a lot but I dont know if its worth messing with them when you can buy a set of Dravtechs and know you're going to get something that wont leak.

What are you doing for tires & wheels?

[B-MOW71]

Well chit, I just bought them same Knipex pliers last week to use a new set of S8E shocks. I assumed they would work since they were recommended. I guess I'll find out for myself.

I too would have liked to have seen machined pistons, especially in this kit. I did have to lightly sand/file almost all of my pistons in my S8E shocks. It didn't take much to make them slide in the shock bodies with ease. Though we shouldn't have to do that.

I agree on the body mounts. I would have liked to see the set screw turned 90 degrees so that the body clip would be turned 90 degrees. I like for my body clips to point towards the front when possible. Something I've always done back in the day on my go-fast rigs so that when I tee-bone something the clips stay in. Plus I think the clips look better positioned that way.

Nice progress. Can't wait to see it with that purdy black and orange servo installed!

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Col_Sanders

Its a good lookin kit, but their shocks do suck. Some people say that the machined caps help a lot but I dont know if its worth messing with them when you can buy a set of Dravtechs and know you're going to get something that wont leak.

What are you doing for tires & wheels?

I saw a comment saying the machined caps make it worse. Crazy how opinions work. Technically plastic will seal better against aluminum, but with a rubber o-ring the aluminum on aluminum should seal just fine.

I don't get the appeal of Dravtechs. They are simply old-school, Traxxas Big Bore shocks with some minor modifications. They are overly long, but limited in travel compared to modern crawler shocks. Hell, Dravtechs are so old that the Chinese have cloned them. InTheWorks RC has some and I'm guessing they are Chinese clones for the price. Link below.

So why do you use Dravtech shocks? I'd love to know your opinion and why you prefer those.

As far as wheels and tires, see the next post. Thanks for asking.

https://www.intheworksrc.com/product...v=2ac843586882

Originally Posted by B-MOW71

Well chit, I just bought them same Knipex pliers last week to use a new set of S8E shocks. I assumed they would work since they were recommended. I guess I'll find out for myself.

I too would have liked to have seen machined pistons, especially in this kit. I did have to lightly sand/file almost all of my pistons in my S8E shocks. It didn't take much to make them slide in the shock bodies with ease. Though we shouldn't have to do that.

I agree on the body mounts. I would have liked to see the set screw turned 90 degrees so that the body clip would be turned 90 degrees. I like for my body clips to point towards the front when possible. Something I've always done back in the day on my go-fast rigs so that when I tee-bone something the clips stay in. Plus I think the clips look better positioned that way.

Nice progress. Can't wait to see it with that purdy black and orange servo installed!

Maybe you'll have better luck than me. I'm sure you have more patience than me. But seriously, I tried for a good while to get the pliers to work with the snap rings in the shocks. I'm anxious to see how you make out. But you may not have to use the pliers at all if you just keep the shock bodies assembled like they come from the factory. That, IMO, is a stupid decision all on its own. The o-ring seals will be dry unless you disassemble them anyway. You could just soak the shock bodies and hope the seals are completely covered, but that's messier than I like.