Please read.

[Karadjas]

I've only been in crawling for roughly a year and a half and I haven't finished one rig yet because in those 18 months, I'd been at home for a segmented 5. I know I'm new, I know the 3 builds I have waiting for me back home to finish them won't work that good, but it doesn't bother me. I actually started with a WK for my 2.2 because I wanted to work around the problems. A homemade chassis, 3 trannies, 2 motors, 4 TQ3 modding attempts later, I have no idea how it will work when I put it back together. And I wouldn't have it any other way, my Dremel is my best friend.

I've said in another post a while back that the reason I got drawn into crawling is the long hours of OCD fun it gives me on the workbench. It helps that engineering is very close to my heart, even though I have just finished an entirely different degree from the best uni in that sector in Europe. The way I see it, building/rebuilding r/cs and getting to know how physics works in this context is the closest I will get to doing what I actually like.

I've always mixed and matched bought/made parts in r/c. My favourite basher is a Lightning RR1 buggy with HPI Savage suspension and custom mounts all over the place. Sure my store bought Hyper buggy may work better, but it's just that, store bought. My TB02 drifter has more custom work in its rear diff alone than some "builds" I've seen around.

I understand that not everyone has the skills for a full custom build (I just got my first hardbody last time I was home and I have never brazed in my life), but some things are just ridiculous. It really annoys me when I read posts from people asking where to buy a skid to fit a particular tranny to a particular chassis. FFS, MAKE ONE! (see quote from 4link4eva in sig).

The hobby is growing rapidly and it should not be a bad thing. Statistically, it makes sense that amidst the sea of us clueless newbies, some will shine and bring some new ideas. That doesn't seem to be the case lately.

I follow the Newbie General forum closely because I can answer most of the questions that are being asked and I can learn from the answers to the questions I cannot. I don't think I have ever seen a serious question go unanswered. It seems that a very large proportion of beginners do not, however, take any time to read. This is what everyone is saying about the RTR mentality taking over. Why do you think the traxxas boards are in the state they are?

Here it is, a rant from a newbie to the sport. I don't know how much of it actually made sense, nor do I really care. This is perhaps the only chance I will get in a while to get some things off my chest.

 

[kasper]

I am new to this sport been involved in crawling for just over two years i however started racing three wheelers in 1981 and dirt bikes in 1975 till 2005 over 30 years we built at our honda dealership fab tested re fabricated re tested threw it in the garbage re designed tested more times then you could imagine we desinged swing arms suspensioion linkages shocks ported our own motors stroked and balanced our own cranks sometimes over and over again to find our first set up worked the best.

Its time we thank every manufacture who got this sport where it is today Thanks for your efforts and your hard earned time building and testing thanks one more time.Now i hope i dont affend anyone who is reading this but there is a crap load of people who think something is always owed to them no matter what even if its the best thing since sliced bread there still not satisfied the only thing is nothing is ever good enough plain and simple.

Now to thank evryone
who made this crawling what it is
rccrawlers
kamakaze
dna
cdw
axial
venom
losi
castle
tekin
hitech
futaba
just to name a few and everyone else i did not mention you get the point.
Thanks keep making the industry grow

Chris Kasper

 

[Scattman]

Mmmmm.............I sure miss the days of 79 dollar TLT kits.


Now where is my Bulu?8)

 

[Ripperfi]

Mmmmm.............I sure miss the days of 79 dollar TLT kits.

Tower has the Cliff climber at 49.99. :lol: Sorry, I had to add that. Its sort of a kit, prebuilt kit.

 

[toyofast]

Mmmmm.............I sure miss the days of 79 dollar TLT kits.


Now where is my Bulu?8)

Oh shit what? Did someone just say my name? I still think, a Bulu1, B2 or even the limited number of B3's we put out there could still hang with the top dawgs of now.








BTW... this thread sucks. I want my Jugg2 axles and narrowed Kongs back.

 

[C*H*U*D]

First of all, let me say that yes, I am a noob. I don't have the experience that many here have, and since I'm starting later than all of you, I never will. I do however read and search.....I know many don't but we shouldn't all be lumped into the same group.

I hear your complaints and desires for the "Golden Days", but time marches on. Many of us "Noobs" come from many different backgrounds and bring many skills to this table......skills that many of the old timers may or may not have. I have seen builds by guys with less than 20 posts that rival or exceed those posted by the "Old timers".

I have also read the complaints and rants about how this or that "sucks" or "breaks too easily"......how this vendor's parts are junk or complain about how the truck they bought "just doesn't work". Not all Noobs are like that.

Many of us (myself included) build from scratch.....or at least try to. For all the complainers there are many of us silently building on our own and not posting about the problems we are having.

I totally understand your concerns and I'm not trying to downplay them....but for all of you who are "Burnt out", there is an excited and enthusiastic Noob who feels like you did 5 years ago.....he might even have a trick or two to share "thumbsup"

 

[Kamikaze]

First of all, let me say that yes, I am a noob. I don't have the experience that many here have, and since I'm starting later than all of you, I never will. I do however read and search.....I know many don't but we shouldn't all be lumped into the same group.

I hear your complaints and desires for the "Golden Days", but time marches on. Many of us "Noobs" come from many different backgrounds and bring many skills to this table......skills that many of the old timers may or may not have. I have seen builds by guys with less than 20 posts that rival or exceed those posted by the "Old timers".

I have also read the complaints and rants about how this or that "sucks" or "breaks too easily"......how this vendor's parts are junk or complain about how the truck they bought "just doesn't work". Not all Noobs are like that.

Many of us (myself included) build from scratch.....or at least try to. For all the complainers there are many of us silently building on our own and not posting about the problems we are having.

I totally understand your concerns and I'm not trying to downplay them....but for all of you who are "Burnt out", there is an excited and enthusiastic Noob who feels like you did 5 years ago.....he might even have a trick or two to share "thumbsup"

If you would read the first post you would see that in no way am I lumping all the newbs into the same group. No one is complaining about you. At least they wern't.......

 

[C*H*U*D]

well written, unfortunately i don't think your target audience has the patience to read all that.

I read all of it.

Most of them can't read or search.

I can read and search.

If you would read the first post you would see that in no way am I lumping all the newbs into the same group. No one is complaining about you. At least they wern't.......

I wasn't referring to you Kamikaze (sorry for the confusion).....I read your post thoroughly, and all the comments after it. You have a good point, and I see where you are coming from. I think that many though, like to think of all of us as one entity.

 

[slowrockr]

Mmmmm.............I sure miss the days of 79 dollar TLT kits.


Now where is my Bulu?8)

Funny, I was just looking at my Bulu I won at nats '06 I think. Not really sure which version it is though. I actually contemplated putting it to use with some MOA's. Can't you just hear it......

Hey what chassis is that? A Bulu. A what?! :ror:

 

[outofreach]

I get your point.

But if someone is going to sell something then it shouldn't be a piece of crap. Or possibly a label "warning this product will fail within 30 minutes of regular use" or for the x-crawler "please scavange parts then rebuild them throw remaining 70% of the rig in the trash"

And I guess all the new guys should make all there own parts and not buy all the stuff for sale on here?? Everyone on here is selling something. Just to many new people here and you don't have the patience for them, but hey more people that can't make their own stuff means you will sell more stuff.

 

[robbio4422]

well written, unfortunately i don't think your target audience has the patience to read all that.

i must agree... and to be honest, im very thankfull for the RTR's because i wouldnt be in this hobby if it wasnt for the kits or rollers and what not. shit broke fast but thats where my A.D.D. kicked in and made me want to learn more. and spend more... and im more then thankfull for all of he great venders who dedicate damn near every waking moment just to make the consumer happy.

TY vendors!:mrgreen:

 

[toyofast]

Funny, I was just looking at my Bulu I won at nats '06 I think. Not really sure which version it is though. I actually contemplated putting it to use with some MOA's. Can't you just hear it......

Hey what chassis is that? A Bulu. A what?! :ror:

I think, if one side is longer than the other, it's the limited production Bulu3 chassis. If it's pretty symmetrical then it's just a Bulu2 chassis..... but from my memory we were pimping only the Bulu3's around September 2006.

 

[Kamikaze]

I get your point.

But if someone is going to sell something then it shouldn't be a piece of crap. Or possibly a label "warning this product will fail within 30 minutes of regular use" or for the x-crawler "please scavange parts then rebuild them throw remaining 70% of the rig in the trash"

And I guess all the new guys should make all there own parts and not buy all the stuff for sale on here?? Everyone on here is selling something. Just to many new people here and you don't have the patience for them, but hey more people that can't make their own stuff means you will sell more stuff.

There is a difference in selling a shoddy product and selling a beginner product. A RTR kit is affordable because there aren't made of the best products out there. Would anyone buy a RTR truck from any company that was $1300? A few would maybe, but to the vast majority of consumers that wouldn't be feasible. Its a fact of life that most people today don't want to believe, you get what you pay for. Its not Axial, or Losi, or kyosho, or Venom or any other manufacturers fault that there $250 RTR truck isn't as durable as the ones that the pro's drive. To fault them for that is absurd. What amazes me is the people that complain about something breaking even when the manufacturer replaces there parts for them. What is there to complain about there? That you had to wait 3 days for a replacement part? I wish that I had a magic part fairy when I started crawling to swoop in every time something got tore up. The only magic part fairy I had was my wallet.

The point is, I don't see what there is to complain about. For example, you take your new shiny RTR axial out of the box, go beat the piss out of it and break an axle, or smoke a servo. You call the number on the box, and get pissed cause you have to pay $4 to ship it back them for a new one. So now lets go complain about it on a public forum. Talk about a kick in the teeth. I warranty my products, I know some people abuse that privilege. The fact that any large company is willing to warranty something as abused as a rock crawler is amazing and they should be shown some level of respect. If it was me and I owned a company that made a RTR and every Tom, Dick and Harry that got one with a loose bolt called to complain about it I would pull the plug. That is the point.

Say you went down to the jeep dealership and bought a new Rubicon, then you took that Rubicon and drove through the Hammers with it and beat the body all to hell and broke an axle. Would you expect the Jeep dealership to replace the axle and fix the body for free? Of course not. They have a warranty though right? Theres a difference in a warranty that covers manufacturers defects, and a warranty that covers any breakage for any reason. What I have seen going on here is the same scenario as the Rubicon, only the "dealership" keeps taking it back and fixing it. There's a big difference in buying a Jeep, beating it to death and getting a free new one, and getting a Jeep and it doesn't start. If it doesn't start then thats the dealerships problem, if you flip it over trying to climb the Matterhorn its your baby.

 

[Code454]

you are right yet again"thumbsup"

 

[Kamikaze]

Just a few more examples and then I am going to bed.....

You buy a Revo. You take said Revo out to play for the first time. Two different scenarios can occur.

1. You take the aforementioned Revo out and it doesn't start. Turns out you have a bad glow plug. Thats Traxxass' fault, by all means call and get a new one. Still no need to grip and piss and moan, no one can catch everything.

or...

2. You take said Revo and fire it up. WHEEE!!! What fun you have. Then you hit a mailbox at 50 mph and the whole left side of the truck looses its a arms. Well, this is a brand new truck....it should have lasted more than 5 minutes.....

In this instance, scenario 1 would be the manufacturers responsibility. I use the word responsibility instead of fault because once again no one is perfect. Had they knowingly sold you a bad glow plug they would be at fault.

Scenario 2, the truck is still broken, it was only 5 minutes old. Could the A arms and chassis been made of better material? Of course it could, aluminum is much stronger than plastic. How dare they sell such a shoddy piece of equipment. Well.....would you have bought the Revo in the first place if it was $2000? Probably not. So is it Traxxass' fault that you took there truck, and hit a mailbox with it? I don't think the design team had that in mind when they built it........

Now go back to the Rubicon. Can it traverse the Hammers? It probably could go through alot of it ok. The question is should you take it down the Hammers? Everything has its limits. Getting pissed cause your RTR breaks something is as stupid as John Doe getting pissed at Jeep because his Wrangler X broke an axle on the same obstacle that his buddy's $100,000 rock racer didn't.



A prime example is the Losi Comp Crawler and the Kyosho Rock Force. Both trucks are very similar in basic design. You have to very different trains of thought on each though.

Take the LCC for instance. Its inexpensive, it has a well thought out chassis design, good tires, nice body ext... So far durability seems to be a concern as I see alot of threads with people heartbroken that there axle has broken.

Now take the Rock Force. It costs alot, the chassis design isn't on par with the current technology, small tires, illegal body blah blah blah. People complained about the chassis, and the tires and the body. I haven't seen anyone break one yet.

So now you have a great driving truck with durability issues for $275 and a truck that needs some tweaking but would survive with the motor out of my Toyota in it for $450. What happened? The Losi I'm sure has killed the Kyosho in sales. How many people would buy a $450 kit from Losi that was as tough as the rock force? The hard core comp guys would. But that is only a small small percentage of the people who are in the target audience. Bottom line is they are in it to make money. I'm not saying we should just take whatever crap they give us. That won't happen. The best truck for the buck will be a success and the rest will have to come up with something better. That is what will drive the manufacturers to make us better rigs. Not pages upon pages of bitching.

 

[Code454]

its all trial and error right, theres always a place to start

 

[Ripperfi]

What amazes me is the people that complain about something breaking even when the manufacturer replaces there parts for them. What is there to complain about there? That you had to wait 3 days for a replacement part?

This is pretty amazing. Only RTR I have ever bought was a slash when they first came out and it was an impulse buy at the LHS shopping for parts. I remember thinking, as I opened the box and saw the warranty card. Who fills these out? I broke the shocks and drive shafts on the 4th run. It never dawned on me to call traxxas and demand new parts. Sure I was brushless and was 100ft out on unfamiliar ground when I smacked that burm head on, but damnit! Thats not my fault their parts broke. Actually it was my fault and I was extremely impressed that thats all I broke. I praised Traxxas for a quality product.

It took me reading this post from kamikaze to fully understand his point of view. What can I say? Im slow. I heard you, and I fully agree with you.

I would say all in all I have spent well over $10,000 in this hobby alone,

I hate to think about it.

 

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Wow Kami, This has been a complaint from myself for a while too. I am not one of the original guys from the early 2000's by no means, but I have however been doing this back before there was any sort of national rules or comps, Axial's, or many parts for that matter. In fact, the only hop up's I remember or aftermarket bolt on parts were like aluminum knuckles for clods and tlt's or Bulu chassis. Heck, my favorite truck that I ever built is my old clod with a micro servo to remove the brush for dig with a home brew stick chassi knock off that I built from scratch. Still to this day, a band saw, drill press, dremmel, angle grinder, various files, mapp torch, zip ties, and super glue are my most commonly used tools!


I can’t credit myself entirely for thinking for myself in this part of the hobby however. I did ask a lot of questions and had a guy that worked for me that gave me a completely different outlook on RC's. I have always been one to do it myself or build it myself, but one of the most appealing things to me about this was the fact that here wasn't much available and pretty much everything had to be built from scratch.


Now I am a total dick to the RTR guys. I just can’t stand the guy who works in an office and his neighbor had a Revo and he thought "It looked tight" so he went and bought one. Personally, I believe, if you don’t know how it functions, and can’t fix it your self, then find a different hobby. I cant stand the guy that calls me up and lists all the shit off that he has on his "Custom" Axial (which consists of every aluminum or bolt on part available, any Novak accessory, a warthog chassi(No offense Ryan), and Crapplers) and asks what kind of battery he needs.


I remember I was at a comp, and a guy who was a frequent spectator came up to me and asked what the gate sizes were for the super class. Now I remember he had just bought a summit. So I saw where this was going and before I even answered his question, I asked if he was thinking on compin' his summit. He said yeah. I told him that he would be wasting his time and that it would fail horribly. He replies with "Why? I can climb over 3 sets of rail road tracks in a row no problem. Like they're not even there" Then I proceeded to explain why in my(for you that know me personally) normal asshole way of explaining things. This is the best example I personally have had of someone that irritated me in this hobby.


Mechanically retarded people bother me because from personal experience, the generally tend to be complete morons in the first place... not just from a mechanical aspect. Grant, it, I should be happy these people exist, because you could tell them the most expensive thing you carry will be their best choice and the will buy it no questions asked... I just can’t stand people who can’t think for themselves. We all do stupid shit from time to time... but C'mon!



Sorry for the vent/rant Kami, This is something that I have wanted said for a long time and I am glad you started it. Although I will be the first to admit, I can’t and refuse to put it as nicely as you, I am glad it was brought up. Not to bash the newbs by any means... Just the newbs that are total tools. Noobs that can at the very least figure a problem out by asking legitimately newb questions, and do their own work... Kudos to you! The newb that takes their RTR axial or MRC to your LHS for a replacement spur gear or knuckle to be installed... Well, you’re the example. As my pop's always said "Dummy up"


Thanks to those however who have actually contributed in a positive way to this part of the hobby and thanks Kami for this can-o-worms you opened. I have learned so much about more than just Crawlin in this part of the hobby. It gave me a new out look on any mechanical problem and I even became a better 1:1 driver, so I cant thant this hobby and those who made it what it is enough. Thanks... I feel a little more relieved now.:mrgreen:

 

[outofreach]

Now I am a total dick to the RTR guys. I cant stand the guy that calls me up and lists all the shit off that he has on his "Custom" Axial (which consists of every aluminum or bolt on part available, any Novak accessory, a warthog chassi(No offense Ryan), and Crapplers) and asks what kind of battery he needs.

Mechanically retarded people bother me


:mrgreen:

Perfect - A growing list of people that make themselves look like arogant ^%$& on the internet and i'm probably not the only one with a growing list of people not to buy from.

You guys that think your heaven sent because you know your way around a RC are a joke.

 

[thehopping1]

I hate to think about it.

Why, I'm sure he doesn't. I may not have spent ten grand on my stuff, but when people who are interested in getting into this hobby ask me how much I got into a truck, I generally tell them about a grand and more hours than I could even guess.

When I started on here the 4X4 Wheely King wasn't even out and by the time I was convinced to buy a crawler the TLT was no longer for sale. So I eventually got a Wheely King and think it is still one of the best platforms because you have to do so much reading and work to get them to be capable. My buddy just got a Losi and spent about $900 on it. His buddy said "you spent a grand on a rc crawler and you have to mess with it to make it good". I just laughed. He spent one night tuning and it is almost comp ready. I spent a year plus on my first WK and out of the box the Losi would stomp it, repeatedly. Of course his buddy thought my WK with a 55t, 12/96 gears, and a MM on 7.4v was too fast and he couldn't controll it. Some people should just stay away from rc's.

Also, I think part of this problem is our fault. I have gotten three people into rc crawling (all noobs to rc) and fully explained the fact that they would be tearing there truck apart and reassembling it many many times and spending hours reading and buying parts multiple times to make them fit right. They all said "no problem, building and tuning is why I want to get into this". But some people try to make this hobby grow quickly by getting others involved and not fully explaining what they are getting into. Granted, when I get into something I tend to research the hell out of it before I spend a penny. And if my impulses get the best of me I live with my mistake and try to make the best of it. But on the other hand, people in general are stupid. Go tell someone you saw a flying car and they will go tell ten others that they just saw a flying car.:roll:

I have been into rc's since I could say rc. Every year growing up I said I wanted an rc car for xmas. I got my first Tamiya kit when I was 12 or so and was amazed that I put it all together in seven hours (kinda pissed that I had to assemble every little part when all I wanted to do is drive it) and the instructions said ten to twelve. As soon as I ran that car I was completely addicted for life. Then I took a four year break from all rc's and as a joke my mom got me an xmod about five years ago. That led to scale4x4 which led me here. Now rc crawlers are by far my favorite of my seventeen plus radio controlled vehicles, and there is no turning back. RADIO CONTROLLED FOR LIFE.

I just wish the gods of rccrawler would make the first ten post from every noob have to be in the noob section. And in order to sign up they would have to read and take a short quiz on a topic just like this one. Then at least some of them would see where some of us are coming from. I spent literally hundreds of hours reading and not asking stupid questions that have been asked so many times that it pisses even me off (a fairly dosile person) when people expect others to do the dirty work for them. At least I earned the right to ask a stupid question every once in a while.

Attention all new people, you can search google too. Lots of info on there as well. Not everything on here is crawler specific, give it a try."thumbsup":mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: