Steering Improvements

[Hammer!]

An surely not, you wouldn't think companies would put heaps of money into developing these products if they didn't work word they? It will be a matter of engineering for sure, all things can be fixed....usually involve lots of $$$

maybe, i don't see how it didn't happen with 3 link though, or how i could fix it...

 

[skerb]

so if there isn't really a solution to the bump steer issue I'm just gonna ditch the whole hi-clearance thing and just get OD gears...

Have you read anything I typed?

 

[Hammer!]

of course i have, and i appreciate yours and everyone else's help. i know you said that the is no way of fully eliminating this bump steer, but i didn't catch on how to improve it...

 

[Trail Blazer]

I was reading the rules for comping mate, your probably just better off with all metal up grades ud gears and a top notch servo if ya want to compete, I mean there are some mods but for scale it seems this might be the go,

 

[Hammer!]

wait a second i just want to make sure I'm talking about the right thing so, what exactly would you say bump steer is?

 

[Hammer!]

I was reading the rules for comping mate, your probably just better off with all metal up grades ud gears and a top notch servo if ya want to compete, I mean there are some mods but for scale it seems this might be the go,

i don't really plan on doing comps, just some bashing and some crawling or whatever, but i still want it to perform well.

 

[Trail Blazer]

I hear ya hammer, no comp where I am but sort of thinking about it and wondering if I want to lol it does effect the class of ya crawler like with narrowing and widening of axles

 

[Hammer!]

I hear ya hammer, no comp where I am but sort of thinking about it and wondering if I want to lol it does effect the class of ya crawler like with narrowing and widening of axles

to be honest, i have no idea, but i don't see why that would be the case... although i could be very mistaken. as for myself doing comps, i don't think i really have the time, but if i did i would probably get a second truck... maybe a rock racer or a more hardcore scx10.

 

[rcwolf]

there is probably less than a millimetre (maybe about a millimetre) of gap but its so little would it really make a difference? and what do i do to fix it anyway

Yes, any gap will allow your axles to shift around and be sloppy. The links are what hold your axles in place, so any gaps = the axle shifting around. Just get some tiny washers like 1mm to get rid of any gaps you can get them at your hobby shop. I forget what brand im using.. I think I have 1mm traxxas washers..

 

[redsawacs]

What is a sporty anyway?

The "REAL MAN'S" Crawler! "thumbsup"

 

[sixty2]

While steering is the topic of discussion, I'm gonna ask what I have been wondering. On most knuckles, each have two holes to attach the links to. Is one option better than the other?
Oh and I think I read somewhere that adjusting the toe angle can help slightly. Is it toe in or toe out that improves turning or am I totally mistaken?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Trail Blazer]

While steering is the topic of discussion, I'm gonna ask what I have been wondering. On most knuckles, each have two holes to attach the links to. Is one option better than the other?
Oh and I think I read somewhere that adjusting the toe angle can help slightly. Is it toe in or toe out that improves turning or am I totally mistaken?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought toe in or out was for handling at speed man, but don't quote me I am often wrong loo

 

[rcwolf]

wait a second i just want to make sure I'm talking about the right thing so, what exactly would you say bump steer is?

How bout you describe what you're calling bump steer?


what bump steer is.. is the link that goes from your steering servo to the steering knuckle (drag link) usually sits at a downward angle. As you compress your front suspension the knuckle moves up closer to the frame.. bringing the link up closer to being horizontal which pushes the arm of the knuckle out away from the steering servo, which turns the the tires in that direction. If you hold a pencil by its eraser with two fingers.. and let it hang down at an angle.. then place the palm of your other hand against the tip of the pencil, then press on the eraser end so the writing end of the pencil moves up and down.. you will notice your hands are further apart horizontally as you bring the pencil up. On a rctruck this translates into the arm of the knuckle getting pushed outward. bump steer tends to be worse if your using a frame mounted servo that has the servo off to one side if you look at the pictures of mine you will see my servo arm is pretty close to the center of the truck. The shorter the drag link, the less bumpsteer. (mine is minimal enough to be unnoticeable)

That being said.. what I see most people referring to as bump steer.. is when your truck is sitting still and you turn your tires from side to side, the frame and body of the truck lift and move before the tires actually start turning, this is caused by slop where the links connect to the axles, as you turn your steering the thing with the least resistance moves first, in this case the frame, once the frame has moved as far as it can the tires start turning. if you take the slop out of the links then the opposite will happen, your tires will turn as far as they can.. then you frame will get shoved over..

If anyone disagrees with my explanation or if I'm just plain wrong. Please feel free to say so, I don't claim to be an expert at this.

ok lets not get carried away i just need help with this one little thing (or maybe its big, i don't know). the combo of my CMS and 4 link are causing less space to turn when at full flex... so should i just live with bad steering and just get OD gears, or is there something i can do?

Honestly Im not picturing this in my head very well.. is your axle shifting over as you flex? pictures of before and after?

 

[rcwolf]

While steering is the topic of discussion, I'm gonna ask what I have been wondering. On most knuckles, each have two holes to attach the links to. Is one option better than the other?
Oh and I think I read somewhere that adjusting the toe angle can help slightly. Is it toe in or toe out that improves turning or am I totally mistaken?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Toe out will help. When turning... Ideally the tire on the inside of the turn radius would be more turned than the one on the outside. By setting your steering so that your tires toe outward a bit. you give that tire a bit of a head start.

 

[Hammer!]

ok so would it be correct to say bump steer is when the front suspension flexes, the wheels turn? (both outwards or inwards, or in the same direction?) and also i realised there is no space for turning when one of the sides at the front it fully flexed, (so the front left wheel is flexed but not the right), but i have space to have more turning when not flexed at all. ill get some pics up later.

 

[Trail Blazer]

How bout you describe what you're calling bump steer?


what bump steer is.. is the link that goes from your steering servo to the steering knuckle (drag link) usually sits at a downward angle. As you compress your front suspension the knuckle moves up closer to the frame.. bringing the link up closer to being horizontal which pushes the arm of the knuckle out away from the steering servo, which turns the the tires in that direction. If you hold a pencil by its eraser with two fingers.. and let it hang down at an angle.. then place the palm of your other hand against the tip of the pencil, then press on the eraser end so the writing end of the pencil moves up and down.. you will notice your hands are further apart horizontally as you bring the pencil up. On a rctruck this translates into the arm of the knuckle getting pushed outward. bump steer tends to be worse if your using a frame mounted servo that has the servo off to one side if you look at the pictures of mine you will see my servo arm is pretty close to the center of the truck. The shorter the drag link, the less bumpsteer. (mine is minimal enough to be unnoticeable)

That being said.. what I see most people referring to as bump steer.. is when your truck is sitting still and you turn your tires from side to side, the frame and body of the truck lift and move before the tires actually start turning, this is caused by slop where the links connect to the axles, as you turn your steering the thing with the least resistance moves first, in this case the frame, once the frame has moved as far as it can the tires start turning. if you take the slop out of the links then the opposite will happen, your tires will turn as far as they can.. then you frame will get shoved over..

If anyone disagrees with my explanation or if I'm just plain wrong. Please feel free to say so, I don't claim to be an expert at this.



Honestly Im not picturing this in my head very well.. is your axle shifting over as you flex? pictures of before and after?

Nicely put wolf

 

[sixty2]

Toe out will help. When turning... Ideally the tire on the inside of the turn radius would be more turned than the one on the outside. By setting your steering so that your tires toe outward a bit. you give that tire a bit of a head start.

ya thats what i thought when i started thinking about the physics of it. Just confirming! "thumbsup"

 

[Trail Blazer]

So after reading this and researching heaps on here I personally am using the rcbros modded narrowed tubes, it's the Xr uni but keeps your scale size, it's not cheap but not expensive either and very simple. So here's a link to rc bros and what they supply, they suggest VP CHUBS but all will fit. http://rcbros.com/?page_id=343#"thumbsup":mrgreen: I will be ordering next week

 

[Orange58Crush]

ill buy an overdrive set for the front and see how much difference it makes, then maybe i might buy an underdrive set.

Someone said it earlier in this thread and I hope you saw it, but I'll say it again...the OD gear set is the weakest of the three sets. If you're going to replace one set, replace the rear with underdrives, especially if you're going with big power.

"Clocking" the c-hubs backward, so the centerline of the pivots hit the ground in front of the center of the tires, helps a lot, too. The clockable chubs are cheap, and you can get a little more by adjusting the length of your links...just make sure you don't get your driveshaft in a bind.

I repositioned my front shocks' top mount to a more vertical position to increase the space for the tires, and also installed 13mm hex extensions. Helps with COG and tire clearance, but no effect on turning radius.

"Ackerman" refers to the angle of the tires in relation to each other while turning...and 1:1s and most RC rigs, the inside tire has a sharper angle than the outside tire, but not on a stock SCX10. Haven't found the parts to change that yet, although I'm sure they are available.

Have fun! "thumbsup"

 

[TacoCrawler]

"Ackerman" refers to the angle of the tires in relation to each other while turning...and 1:1s and most RC rigs, the inside tire has a sharper angle than the outside tire, but not on a stock SCX10.

Haven't found the parts to change that yet, although I'm sure they are available.

VP zero ackerman/Hi Str spindles ...likely other mfgr's as well


Like the overly animated Honda salesperson...
"Just trying to be helpful" ;-)