PipeDreams
RCC Addict
Ok no worries I'll be patient and wait. Like a wise man once said... good things come to those who wait lol.
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Tech thread: CrawlMaster 540
- Thread starter JohnRobHolmes
- Start date
sourdojack
Rock Crawler
So Chris the battery guy and I tried to do this wind on my 480 puller motor over the weekend.
I did 20 turns on each pole in this kind of pattern
The Armature ended up looking like this
Anywho, I put the motor back together at 0* timing and the motor would barely spin. Is there something we did majorly wrong?
Any help would be appriciated,
Thanks,
TOM
I did 20 turns on each pole in this kind of pattern
The Armature ended up looking like this
Anywho, I put the motor back together at 0* timing and the motor would barely spin. Is there something we did majorly wrong?
Any help would be appriciated,
Thanks,
TOM
You wave wound it, which doesn't work right in a two magnet two brush motor.
Wind it like it used to be, but terminate it differently. Hopefully my paint program skills are good enough to show you the jist.
Start with 20t 26awg wire.
If you terminate it like I have shown, the zero timing will be between the small windows in the can.
Wind it like it used to be, but terminate it differently. Hopefully my paint program skills are good enough to show you the jist.
Start with 20t 26awg wire.
If you terminate it like I have shown, the zero timing will be between the small windows in the can.
Attachments
sourdojack
Rock Crawler
The picture is great! Thanks for the info John!
PipeDreams
RCC Addict
Is that the wind you're using on the new crawlmaster motors? Or the original puller motors? What wind are you doing for these new beasts?
Hey quick question... which arm is in the crawlmaster? The og post says 5mm but your website says 7.5?
Hey quick question... which arm is in the crawlmaster? The og post says 5mm but your website says 7.5?
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The website will have the more accurate data.
I am using a similar wind on the CM armature, yes. The original puller pattern is similar, but with a different termination.
I am using a similar wind on the CM armature, yes. The original puller pattern is similar, but with a different termination.
PipeDreams
RCC Addict
Ya I was looking at 2 different specs... one was arm one was comm lol... my bad sorry. So it's a 5mm arm and 7.5mm comm. Cool. THX
Chris_The_Battery_Man
I wanna be Dave
John,
Do you perhaps have some more detailed pics of your comms? That pic makes better sense.... to an extent. But I want to know how to wrap them, now that I know the orientation in relation to the magnets. If that makes sense..??
Do you perhaps have some more detailed pics of your comms? That pic makes better sense.... to an extent. But I want to know how to wrap them, now that I know the orientation in relation to the magnets. If that makes sense..??
cacobonanza
Newbie
John,
I just got the CM 16t and wonder if a 2S battery will be a better choice to deliver scale speeds and smooth acceleration... the truck is equipped with a "High Lift" 3 speed trans and the CrawlMaster will replace the original Tamiya 27t motor. I want to avoid lightning fast top speeds; only smoothness. :roll:
Thanks
I just got the CM 16t and wonder if a 2S battery will be a better choice to deliver scale speeds and smooth acceleration... the truck is equipped with a "High Lift" 3 speed trans and the CrawlMaster will replace the original Tamiya 27t motor. I want to avoid lightning fast top speeds; only smoothness. :roll:
Thanks
Try it on 2s. You will lose some wheelspeed from the 27t, but gain a lot of torque.
Here is the for sale thread. http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3004225#post3004225
We have been winding these as fast as possible and selling out on the same day we put them on the site. If you want to secure your motors you can purchase them as a custom wind, it is typically a two week wait from order to shipment.
We have been trying to get some extra winders to help with the load, but it seems to be difficult to find good help. It is easy work for me, but the multiple workers we have trained still need more practice to get it right. Unfortunately I am limited on how many motors I can wind per day, so until we can get some extra hands winding we are limited in our production volume.
We have been winding these as fast as possible and selling out on the same day we put them on the site. If you want to secure your motors you can purchase them as a custom wind, it is typically a two week wait from order to shipment.
We have been trying to get some extra winders to help with the load, but it seems to be difficult to find good help. It is easy work for me, but the multiple workers we have trained still need more practice to get it right. Unfortunately I am limited on how many motors I can wind per day, so until we can get some extra hands winding we are limited in our production volume.
waltgpierce
Rock Stacker
I need a little clarification on the winding(s) pictured in this thread. I am having some difficulty interpreting the diagrams.
In the first diagram (sourdojack), it appears to be a lap-winding - not the best winding for a motor.
The second diagram (JohnRobHolmes) seems to be a delta-wind. Definitely a great way to wind a motor without having to worry about the armature being sensitive to timing.
I am correct in interpreting these diagrams? If not, could someone explain in more detail.
I'm definitely a newbie in the crawler world. Just trying to understand the engineering involved.
In the first diagram (sourdojack), it appears to be a lap-winding - not the best winding for a motor.
The second diagram (JohnRobHolmes) seems to be a delta-wind. Definitely a great way to wind a motor without having to worry about the armature being sensitive to timing.
I am correct in interpreting these diagrams? If not, could someone explain in more detail.
I'm definitely a newbie in the crawler world. Just trying to understand the engineering involved.
Lap winding is used on pretty much all two pole two brush motors, especially on low voltage systems. Wave winding is generally used on high voltage systems where a low turn count is desired (saves manufacturing time), and on four pole and higher motors. While lap winding induces fighting currents, it offers the lowest resistance for a given motor speed. That in turn provides higher efficiency and power to weight ratio.
I haven't seen Wye termination used in brushed motors, but I suppose it is an option. You could certainly do it if you wanted to be fancy on a high slot count motor, but it would be wasted time and a point of additional failure IMO.
Armatures above three slot can be wound either simplex or multiplex. I chose a simplex wind for this motor because of the brush limitations. There is an increase in end-turn losses, but a significant decrease in phase resistance. They can also be progressively or retrogressively wound, with termination style and wind direction influencing the field and commutation direction. Above all, a motor wind must be chosen to give the best span between magnet poles. So a two pole motor must be wound with the coil span as close to 180 degrees without going over. On the five slot there is only a choice of 72 degrees and 144 degrees, with 144 degrees being the best choice for a full span pitch.
Hope that helps a bit, and didn't confuse more!
I haven't seen Wye termination used in brushed motors, but I suppose it is an option. You could certainly do it if you wanted to be fancy on a high slot count motor, but it would be wasted time and a point of additional failure IMO.
Armatures above three slot can be wound either simplex or multiplex. I chose a simplex wind for this motor because of the brush limitations. There is an increase in end-turn losses, but a significant decrease in phase resistance. They can also be progressively or retrogressively wound, with termination style and wind direction influencing the field and commutation direction. Above all, a motor wind must be chosen to give the best span between magnet poles. So a two pole motor must be wound with the coil span as close to 180 degrees without going over. On the five slot there is only a choice of 72 degrees and 144 degrees, with 144 degrees being the best choice for a full span pitch.
Hope that helps a bit, and didn't confuse more!
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waltgpierce
Rock Stacker
Excellent! Thanks!
I am used to armature winding for slot cars where every type of configuration has been tried (most with little success).
Now I understand what you are doing with your armatures. The power band must be incredibly smooth.
I am used to armature winding for slot cars where every type of configuration has been tried (most with little success).
Now I understand what you are doing with your armatures. The power band must be incredibly smooth.
Indeed it is! These crawl like no other, that is for sure.
There is something to be said for the patterns that are most popular. They are that way for a reason! I went through many configurations of simplexed, multiplexed, pitch, and pattern on these arms. What I found out was the most common and least "pretty" turned out to be the best!
There is something to be said for the patterns that are most popular. They are that way for a reason! I went through many configurations of simplexed, multiplexed, pitch, and pattern on these arms. What I found out was the most common and least "pretty" turned out to be the best!
Another member suggested to me that delta and wye termination is used in brushed motors, however I have not seen termination referenced like that unless they were also induction motors. Any links or resources that terminology used with brushed permanent magnet motors? I have never once ran across the terms being used like that, but learning something new every day is always good!
cacobonanza
Newbie
John,
Should I use a transmission with gear reduction to achieve mild, scale speeds, or should I keep it 1:1?
Thanks again
Should I use a transmission with gear reduction to achieve mild, scale speeds, or should I keep it 1:1?
Thanks again
Much too vague, I need more information about the truck, transfer case, setup, tire size, voltage, etc.
cacobonanza
Newbie
John,
I'm yet to purchase most of the components. I was going to use a High Lift 3 speed transmission, but realized it would be too large for this project. For now, all I have is the Tamiya Wrangler body (rigid plastic), D-35 axles and the amazing CrawlMaster 540 motor (16t). I intend to use 1.9 tires (probably SDI Grip Doctors), a custom made true to scale chassis, and a 3S A123 battery (9.9V). My concern is over the transmission and transfer case specs, since my goal is to achieve mild, scale speeds and smooth accelerations. Sorry for being so laconic in the previous post...
I'm yet to purchase most of the components. I was going to use a High Lift 3 speed transmission, but realized it would be too large for this project. For now, all I have is the Tamiya Wrangler body (rigid plastic), D-35 axles and the amazing CrawlMaster 540 motor (16t). I intend to use 1.9 tires (probably SDI Grip Doctors), a custom made true to scale chassis, and a 3S A123 battery (9.9V). My concern is over the transmission and transfer case specs, since my goal is to achieve mild, scale speeds and smooth accelerations. Sorry for being so laconic in the previous post...
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OK, I am really having a hard time figuring out which motor to purchase and what cell to run it with. I have one truck with a 35T torque master running a 20t pinion, I am running 1.9 boggers and around a 9 pound truck weight. I am building a TTC rig and I want more wheel speed ( I mean alot of wheel speed). I was thinking that I needed to go with a 6s but I don't know if that is over kill. I don't want to have to rebuild the motor every time I turn around if I can keep from it. Should I go with a 32T so I can run 6s or go with a 13t or 16t and run 3 or 4s? Please help me decide what will be best. I think I will be running a summit 2 speed also if that matters with 2.2 Boggers and Claws. Thank you for your suggestions.
