RCCrawler Forums

pantablo · 01-12-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernextreme

i had close to the same prob!

what i see is the following:
rear axle, is clocked upwards WAY too much, the drive shaft pinion is pointing upward a long way. you want your pinion angle to point slight up, but only by a couple of degree's.
the rear four link upper's are not equal (square to the axle)
this will make it walk to one side)
on the rear links the ant. wire is rapped too tight on the cross brace.
and also on the four link.. upper links where the attatch to the frame. need to remove the orange spacer's

Same with the front pinion, it does not look nearly as bad as the front,

just my .02 cents, as i too had very close to the same issues...

I'm on expert with axials but thats the first thing I thought of when I saw the pictures. flatten the axles first. output shaft should be only slightly tilted up from horizontal. this will shorten your uppers, which is a good thing.

also just take it in your hand and move the suspension to check for anything that might be binding up or hitting. you can usually tell what is binding, if something is, in this way.

you could also unbolt one thing at a time to see how it affects the suspension travel. first the two upper links of one axle, replace and try the two shocks, etc. to try and find the one thing that is binding it up.
good luck. I know how frustrating it can be. I went through something similar with my first truck. Once I figured it out it was very rewarding (both the driving and having been able to sort it myself, with the help of this board).

good luck.

350jeepcj5 · 01-12-2009, 05:12 PM

How does that look for pinion angle?

Manning · 01-12-2009, 05:12 PM

+1 on loosening the zip ties on the electronics mounts.

treday619 · 01-12-2009, 05:17 PM

I would also suggest going with Losi Shocks. I was running a stock setup and I wish I bought the Losi's sooner than I did. Where the shocks attach to the chassis what are you using right now? I would reocmmend going with some washers and Fuel Tubing this will allow your shocks to move around a bit. I am no expert just my .02

southernextreme · 01-12-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350jeepcj5

How does that look for pinion angle?

Much better, when you get too much pinion angle in either direction, it will cause binding in the drive shafts.. (I just about pulled my hair out trying to fig it out)

Deezul · 01-12-2009, 05:23 PM

why the bent rod ends on the uppers? I'd ditch those

pantablo · 01-12-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350jeepcj5

How does that look for pinion angle?

good. now run it and report back.

moabax · 01-12-2009, 05:32 PM

I think you are on the right path.

41565chevelle · 01-12-2009, 05:33 PM

Okay, as I see it from your pictures is a few things I would address:
Rear suspension;
The four link is good, I like the use of the servo mount. However, it is not long enough to get the correct pinion angle. The plate can still be used, you just need to move the mounting holes closer to the outside(tires). The link ends should be mounted to the underside of the plate to help with the torque twist. You need to shorten up the links and mount them in one of the three holes provided in the chassis to get back to the beginning. The upper link length is what is going to help level out your pinion angle. In addition, remove the spacer between the upper link and the frame, you can use that somewhere else later. Take your receiver off of the rear until you get all of your suspension flex figured out, then mount it back on it. Take the spacer off of the rear shock and start over with that.

The front is pretty good, get some soft/extra soft springs up front and work with that. It will change a lot right away and then you can tweek it from there to your liking. It is a game of tune, test and back to tuning again. It gets a little old, but once you see some changes it is way worth it.

That is a good start, keep us posted!

rock addict · 01-12-2009, 05:43 PM

those rear upper links give you a horriable axel angle, If I were you I would go back to a stock setup, run 1 inch of fuel line in your shock, get super soft springs this is called a 50/50 shock setup weight your wheels, use 2 1/2 packs of the fronts and 2 packs in the rear. sometimes when people make there own parts they just make things worse.doing these couple of things you wil notice a difference in your truck

autumnsummers1 · 01-12-2009, 05:51 PM

I run a high pinion angle on the rear and has worked well for me,
I moved it small amounts at a time and it ended up working for my rig
(slingshot) I think that setup on a rock crawler comes 2nd to driver
I have worked with setups for weeks and found with my rig that
a soft spring in the rear and a VERY heavy oil in the rear shocks
brings traction and weight to the front when on the rocks and
in a bind. A loose truck to me is sloppy to drive and with any speed is out of control looking with any driver.

mtnyote · 01-12-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350jeepcj5

How does that look for pinion angle?

thats much better.

You need to Remove your shocks and do the following:

-use 1/2" of fuel tubing under the piston to limit your ride height

-Use the firmest (stock/blue) springs in the rear

-Use the softest (red) springs in the front

-Properly fill and bleed your shocks with 30weight

-securely install your shock caps, being carefull not to cross thread

thats the first thing you need to do to fix your suspension and it will cost less than ten bucks

Offroader5 · 01-12-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernextreme

i had close to the same prob!

what i see is the following:
rear axle, is clocked upwards WAY too much, the drive shaft pinion is pointing upward a long way. you want your pinion angle to point slight up, but only by a couple of degree's.
the rear four link upper's are not equal (square to the axle)
this will make it walk to one side)
on the rear links the ant. wire is rapped too tight on the cross brace.
and also on the four link.. upper links where the attatch to the frame. need to remove the orange spacer's

Same with the front pinion, it does not look nearly as bad as the front,

just my .02 cents, as i too had very close to the same issues...

This is mostly the same I am seeing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350jeepcj5

Maybe some better pictures...

One thing about those orange spacers. I can't tell for sure, but are you using conical washers between the spacer and the rod end or is the spacer and nut right up against the rod end faces? If those are right against the rod end face...the rod end can't pivot and the axle end rod ends are doing all the movement for the uppers.

I would also try and triangulate the links more. On the uppers...if you make the spacer as small as possible at the frame (if you do in fact need them at all), and then if you can push the mounts at the axle end closer together, it will triangulate them more. Same for the lowers...if you swap the spacer and link location on the axle mount, and put the spacer inward, this would spread the lowers apart more at the axle. If you can, even try and pull the lower end of the shock inside the axle mount and put the link on the outside where you have the shock now. Not sure if that'll cause clearance issues though...so that's just a thought.

It really doesn't look like the zip ties are what's keeping anything from twisting. The uppers are not really moving around that much anyway.

moabax · 01-12-2009, 05:55 PM

I ran the same upper links in my old stock chassis they work fine. the mounting hole you have in the chassis should be a little higher to achive the proper link seperation. Link seperation is the key to torque twist. You do not need to spread the link out on the servo plate but i would get a plate that has the holes lined up straight. yours are off by a couple mm. Yes you can always go back to the stock upper mount holes,but you will have more torque twist and more pinion angle change during flex. With the uppers the same length as the lowers the pinion angle will not change during flex.
Here is a shot of my current rear setup.

The Modfather · 01-12-2009, 06:04 PM

This thread is a PERFECT example of why I'm proud to be a member here!

350jeepcj5 · 01-12-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Modfather

This thread is a PERFECT example of why I'm proud to be a member here!

x2, thanks for all of your help guys! keep em comin.

See65 · 01-12-2009, 07:11 PM

Like BILLYGOAT said make sure the zip ties holding those plates to your upper links are not tight that will bind it up for sure.

BEAU · 01-12-2009, 08:05 PM

the rear upper links limit you up travel so you need to ether go under the mount or but one that makes the ball cup verticle..... it wont articulate up that well the way you have them set now

LEROY · 01-12-2009, 08:15 PM

try using tcs 4 link plate in rear and jato turnbuckles to fine adjust your pinion angleto about 2 deg.,you can still use the orange spacers on the chassis side to.

moabax · 01-12-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEROY

try using tcs 4 link plate in rear and jato turnbuckles to fine adjust your pinion angleto about 2 deg.,you can still use the orange spacers on the chassis side to.

I have seen these plates and they work very well..
http://rcpcrawlers.com/product.php?p...&cat=29&page=1

01-12-2009, 05:55 PM	#34
moabax Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: !! MOAB !! Posts: 373	I ran the same upper links in my old stock chassis they work fine. the mounting hole you have in the chassis should be a little higher to achive the proper link seperation. Link seperation is the key to torque twist. You do not need to spread the link out on the servo plate but i would get a plate that has the holes lined up straight. yours are off by a couple mm. Yes you can always go back to the stock upper mount holes,but you will have more torque twist and more pinion angle change during flex. With the uppers the same length as the lowers the pinion angle will not change during flex. Here is a shot of my current rear setup. Last edited by moabax; 01-12-2009 at 05:58 PM.

01-12-2009, 05:12 PM	#22
350jeepcj5 Rock Stacker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Street Posts: 88	How does that look for pinion angle?

01-12-2009, 05:12 PM	#23
Manning RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lowell, Arkansas Posts: 1,307	+1 on loosening the zip ties on the electronics mounts.

01-12-2009, 05:17 PM	#24
treday619 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 971	I would also suggest going with Losi Shocks. I was running a stock setup and I wish I bought the Losi's sooner than I did. Where the shocks attach to the chassis what are you using right now? I would reocmmend going with some washers and Fuel Tubing this will allow your shocks to move around a bit. I am no expert just my .02

01-12-2009, 05:23 PM	#26
Deezul RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ccxc Posts: 1,176	why the bent rod ends on the uppers? I'd ditch those

01-12-2009, 05:32 PM	#28
moabax Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: !! MOAB !! Posts: 373	I think you are on the right path.

01-12-2009, 05:33 PM	#29
41565chevelle Rock Stacker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: orange county Posts: 59	Okay, as I see it from your pictures is a few things I would address: Rear suspension; The four link is good, I like the use of the servo mount. However, it is not long enough to get the correct pinion angle. The plate can still be used, you just need to move the mounting holes closer to the outside(tires). The link ends should be mounted to the underside of the plate to help with the torque twist. You need to shorten up the links and mount them in one of the three holes provided in the chassis to get back to the beginning. The upper link length is what is going to help level out your pinion angle. In addition, remove the spacer between the upper link and the frame, you can use that somewhere else later. Take your receiver off of the rear until you get all of your suspension flex figured out, then mount it back on it. Take the spacer off of the rear shock and start over with that. The front is pretty good, get some soft/extra soft springs up front and work with that. It will change a lot right away and then you can tweek it from there to your liking. It is a game of tune, test and back to tuning again. It gets a little old, but once you see some changes it is way worth it. That is a good start, keep us posted!

01-12-2009, 05:43 PM	#30
rock addict Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: other side of the track,the bad side Posts: 241	those rear upper links give you a horriable axel angle, If I were you I would go back to a stock setup, run 1 inch of fuel line in your shock, get super soft springs this is called a 50/50 shock setup weight your wheels, use 2 1/2 packs of the fronts and 2 packs in the rear. sometimes when people make there own parts they just make things worse.doing these couple of things you wil notice a difference in your truck

01-12-2009, 05:51 PM	#31
autumnsummers1 Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Frankfort Posts: 37	I run a high pinion angle on the rear and has worked well for me, I moved it small amounts at a time and it ended up working for my rig (slingshot) I think that setup on a rock crawler comes 2nd to driver I have worked with setups for weeks and found with my rig that a soft spring in the rear and a VERY heavy oil in the rear shocks brings traction and weight to the front when on the rocks and in a bind. A loose truck to me is sloppy to drive and with any speed is out of control looking with any driver.

01-12-2009, 06:04 PM	#35
The Modfather Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shingle Springs, CA Posts: 89	This thread is a PERFECT example of why I'm proud to be a member here!

01-12-2009, 07:11 PM	#37
See65 Rock Crawler Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Roseville,Ca Posts: 540	Like BILLYGOAT said make sure the zip ties holding those plates to your upper links are not tight that will bind it up for sure.

Sponsored Links

01-12-2009, 08:05 PM	#38
BEAU Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: H D Posts: 197	the rear upper links limit you up travel so you need to ether go under the mount or but one that makes the ball cup verticle..... it wont articulate up that well the way you have them set now

01-12-2009, 08:15 PM	#39
LEROY Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: bedrock Posts: 191	try using tcs 4 link plate in rear and jato turnbuckles to fine adjust your pinion angleto about 2 deg.,you can still use the orange spacers on the chassis side to.

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