scx10 deadbolt front diff squeak??

[metblack328i]

Good news is that I figured out where that resistance is coming from. But the bad news is that its not a simple fix. Here is the story. I opened up my front axle and what is see is that the large ring gear (large) is sat firmly between the bearings. But its the pinion gear that has play in it. So when the center drive shaft accelerates or decelerates, the play makes the pinion gear move back and forth on the ring gear causing it to lock up against the diff surface. I held the pinion gear out as much as possible and then rolled the wheels and the Vola.... no more resistance. I need to find some good 6mm washers and put them between the center drive shaft and the pinion gear to make sure the pinion gear is not pushed deep.

[metblack328i]

Updated the OP with the actual problem.

[metblack328i]

Now it makes me think that Axial did this intentionally so that people buy their upgraded gear set.

[snapon boy]

So the question is dose the upgraded gear set have the same slop? Also dose the delux housing upgrade fix it? I have hot racing overdrive gears and they do the same thing

[metblack328i]

So I went through a few videos of the upgraded gear set (AX30401) and also few pic comparisons. The upgraded gear set being bevelled, the ring gear may hold the pinion in place. Also the pinion is lot smaller and single piece in the upgraded gear set. The stock pinion is held in place with a C-pin. So it has some play. Also shimming the pinion is apparently a good way and I did put 1 shim inside, I dont think it was enough. Probably needs 1 more or 2.

[snapon boy]

Do you have a part number for the shims

[metblack328i]

Originally Posted by snapon boy

Do you have a part number for the shims

No. I dont. I had some associated shims in my stock where were a little lose but I still put them in. I had bought these shims for my 1/16 e revo.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by lukejr77

this is what my diff is doing even with the axles removed so i think i need to shim the diff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd61...ature=youtu.be

...mine sounded very similar to that when it was new
Running the car a bit... usually smooths out the gear mesh.

my thought:

1. The pinion gear does not seat fully without first installing the stock driveshaft's coupler
to the pinion output shaft. (in effect, pulls the gear mesh outward some)
So if turning manually... pull the pinion gear shaft outwards from its gear mesh (some pressure)
when turning the pinion output shaft and feel/listen for any improvement.
I suggest installing the forward half of the driveshaft (makes it easier),
then pull/spin the pinion shaft/axle gears by hand again - listen.
Some improvement should be heard or felt.

The gear mesh may be a little rough initially... but break-in usually smooths down the poorly cast tooth surfaces.

If ya can't wait for break in... use a jeweler's file and file (smooth) the gear teeth slightly (making sure there are no burrs)...
Or just swap out to better quality mfgr'd gears.
The cast gears generally suck and don't mesh smoothly when new.

2. If it's an RTR... the assembly includes very little grease on the gear mesh. So add some if need be.
Some choose to pack grease inside the differential's center chunk.
But I believe that is most primarily to fill the void... so that other contaminates are less likely to enter.
Since I don't submerge my junk... I prefer to use just a little more grease on the R&P.

3. The grinding you hear is not reflective of your thread title's described squeak ?
Which is more likely coming from the Universal of the driveshaft.
Lube that... turn the driveshaft - listen.
^ is the most common source of squeaking when driven in dusty environment's or is not lubed properly.

4. Unless Axial's production line has become of fault...
I'm sure the engineers designed the gear mesh to be acceptable
using the parts it comes with.
Adding a shim to the pinion's output shaft can do more harm then good.
and IMO, should be avoided unless you are 100% sure Axial's production is flawed.

[metblack328i]

Originally Posted by TacoCrawler

...mine sounded very similar to that when it was new
Running the car a bit... usually smooths out the gear mesh.

my thought:

1. The pinion gear does not seat fully without first installing the stock driveshaft's coupler
to the pinion output shaft. (in effect, pulls the gear mesh outward some)
So if turning manually... pull the pinion gear shaft outwards from its gear mesh (some pressure)
when turning the pinion output shaft and feel/listen for any improvement.
I suggest installing the forward half of the driveshaft (makes it easier),
then pull/spin the pinion shaft/axle gears by hand again - listen.
Some improvement should be heard or felt.

The gear mesh may be a little rough initially... but break-in usually smooths down the poorly cast tooth surfaces.

If ya can't wait for break in... use a jeweler's file and file (smooth) the gear teeth slightly (making sure there are no burrs)...
Or just swap out to better quality mfgr'd gears.
The cast gears generally suck and don't mesh smoothly when new.

2. If it's an RTR... the assembly includes very little grease on the gear mesh. So add some if need be.
Some choose to pack grease inside the differential's center chunk.
But I believe that is most primarily to fill the void... so that other contaminates are less likely to enter.
Since I don't submerge my junk... I prefer to use just a little more grease on the R&P.

3. The grinding you hear is not reflective of your thread title's described squeak ?
Which is more likely coming from the Universal of the driveshaft.
Lube that... turn the driveshaft - listen.
^ is the most common source of squeaking when driven in dusty environment's or is not lubed properly.

4. Unless Axial's production line has become of fault...
I'm sure the engineers designed the gear mesh to be acceptable
using the parts it comes with.
Adding a shim to the pinion's output shaft can do more harm then good.
and IMO, should be avoided unless you are 100% sure Axial's production is flawed.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Me shimming the diff was just to see if that holds the pinion in place and it almost did. Being aware that not all diff cases are 100% equal I dont think it hurts. I have done it tons of times on my traxxas builds with better results.

Under acceleration or deceleration, the drift shaft does not always pull the pinion out. so there is a harmonious behavior where the drive shaft is all the way in and all the way out. When its all the way in, it causes resistance as it mesh is not 100% in this case. I will grease the drive shaft and see if the squeak dies.

[Ty@Tekin]

Yep, the pinion is likely not sitting where it needs to. For proper mesh you need to put the drive shaft coupling on the output shaft while pushing the pinion into the bearings. That way when you reassemble the axle the pinion mesh won't change due to slop.

[lukejr77]

my diff makes the noise with or without the drive shaft and it has a ton of grease so i'm going to try shimming. does any one have a good link for shimming these diff's?

[metblack328i]

Originally Posted by Ty@Tekin

Yep, the pinion is likely not sitting where it needs to. For proper mesh you need to put the drive shaft coupling on the output shaft while pushing the pinion into the bearings. That way when you reassemble the axle the pinion mesh won't change due to slop.

Yep. When I push throttle, I see that the front diff does not roll smoothly where as the rear is very smooth. This is what triggered me to look at the diffs individually.

[TacoCrawler]

shimming is sometimes required if using aft. mkt. gears.
but not normally utilized -needed using the stock R&P

the universal is not held in place using a grub screw...
but instead uses a fixed pin to mount that.
The stock universal coupler has a rise on the inside surface
that fills the void, when the set pin is inserted.

So tho' it may possibly have room for shimming
on the exterior of the pinion shaft (as long as the set pin can be fitted)
I doubt it will correct what is your concern.

I still believe the sintered R&P gears are to blame...
Unless for some reason the pinion/bearing are not seating fully.

^ double check to ensure the pinion/bearing are seating fully.

If they are seated fully...
then is most probably a bur or fault of the cheaply cast sintered gears.

your rear axle R&P seems smoother then the front (you say)...
but I'll doubt production line failure/fault is to blame.

Tho' changing to different axle housing may require more fine tuning...
I wouldn't think you have a faulty axle housing only at the front.

So IMO... it has to be a burr on the sintered R&P
or the pinion/bearing is not seating fully.

Bottom line...
if yer not going to smooth the gear teeth on the R&P
then it will likely run sorta rough until they wear or break in a little.

[metblack328i]

There you go. Problem solved. Got this from lowes today. Its a 6mm nylon washer for like 65cents. With the washer, there is no more lose pinion and the wheels roll smoothly.




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[snapon boy]

That's a good idea, if it were Teflon washer Wed be cooking with nitro!

[TacoCrawler]

...cool that you state it resolves your issue
tho' that washer looks a tad thick to me.

I was expecting to see the grub/pin
sticking thru to the other side of the universal collar ?
I know mine protrudes out the opposing side just a hair
or is at least flush.

Is it installed in this picture ?



picture of that grub/pin here...

http://www.axialracing.com/products/ax30784

maybe they are shorter now ?

[snapon boy]

Mine do that also I hit it with the dremmel just so I dint get my fingers etc in it

[metblack328i]

Originally Posted by TacoCrawler

...cool that you state it resolves your issue

but I was expecting to see the grub/pin
sticking thru to the other side of the universal collar ?
I know mine protrudes out the opposing side a just a hair
or is at least flush.

Is it in there in this picture ?



^ picture of that grub/pin here...

Axial Racing - WB8 Driveshaft Coupler Set

That picture did not have the grub screw yet.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by metblack328i

That picture did not have the grub screw yet.

gotcha... no issue getting the grub pin into the collar ?

I never needed to shim my pinion output...
so just curious

[metblack328i]

Originally Posted by TacoCrawler

gotcha... no issue getting the grub pin into the collar ?

I never needed to shim my pinion output...
so just curious

No issues. Infact that shim perfectly seals the gap. I did a test run and i dont see the axle wobble. No binding feel either.