stock speed ?

[madkawi650]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

By the by, There are 21t Titans (14,4 v max. made for 4 cells) and there are 12t Titans. 7,4 v 8,4 max, made for 2 cells. Do not mix those up.

21t Titans (from the E-Maxx) are dismally slow on 2 cells. they need at least 3 cell lipo's.
the 12t Titans(from The Slash) are pretty darn fast with just 2 cells, or a quality 8,4v NiMh.

I run the 21t Titan on 3S and love it.. Im geared fairly low at 20/87. the motor is just warm after 20 minutes of bashing. Crawling is much better than the stock 20t which also means better drag brakes. I am also Faster than stock by enough to crash into my wife's Ford escape..

Very impressed for the $23 cost, easy to mod the link mount to fit it in there, and the torque.. I recommend it.

[crazee horse]

hmmmmm, im a bit perplexed. just installed my new traxxas 12t, and am running 20/87 gearing on 5000mah 2s.................
and its not good. i reckon about 2mph over stock MAXX.
im just amazed how nothing has changed. ive dropped a full 8 turns.............

ALSO the 550 can fits with no modifications at all. just make sure the can "collar" is seated snuggly in the motor plate cutout.

im wondering if my esc is up the swanny ? i still cant do even tiny wheelies (not that i want to just trying to explain how little punch i have). ive changed drag brake to 100% and that has made a mahoosive difference. will post pics of 550 fitment tomorrow if i remember. also maybe a small video of speed, or lack of.

[Jay-Em]

That's.......totally weird. Have You tried the 80-tooth spur?. The Titan has no problem with 20/80 at all. 20/87 is undergeared for a 12t Titan, and only useful for crawling and slow trail-running...And doesn't do a lot for the Titan, except limiting the top-speed and saving some battery-power.

23/80 will be quite fast, but will prolly fry Your ESC though ( unless You use the XL5. No drag-brake though. Not fun while crawling)
On 2s lipo, I can wheely it from a stand-still, it dashes up my stairs like a rat on fire. When launched from my doorstep, it flies for 2feet from a dead-stop...

The Traxxas Slash with a stock Titan 12t will, indeed, do 28-30 mph on the flats, with a good 8,4 nimh and no wind, so even a fat bugger like The Wraith should at least be able to hit 20 to 23 mph with, said, Titan 12t... * scratches head*

You ought to have noticed at least a serious increase in accelleration and off-road speed.

I am completely stumped why you get such dysmal performance from Your rig.
Is Your slipper tight enough? Is there something like a " punch-setting" via that castle-link?
Is the throttle of Your transmitter perhaps switched to some kind of dual-rate, or end-point adjustment? Or do You still use the stock transmitter?
Battery broken? Orr..well, indeed, an ESC on the fritz, or with some software error that prevents max power. Say, something like Traxxas' " training-mode"

It seems that for some The Wraith is jinxed with brittle parts, sluggy performance and slowness.. Weird, to say the least.

Bottomline: fast on the cheap is not possible with the Wraith. For some serious speed, sensored brushless, 10 to 8,5 turns is the way to go, at the cost of it's crawling ability.

Or invest in a 35t Holmes TM and an ESC that can stand 3s LiPo.. Still.. Not exactly cheap.

[crazee horse]

axial wraith with12t titan, on 5000mah 2s - YouTube

there she blows. the radio is stock, and all settings and calibration as should be. i was going to try and put the 23t in but i dont think it would fit ? its pretty tight already. thanks for the replies Jay-Em

[Jay-Em]

* scratch, scratch*

That's not what I got out of it.
Some thoughts:

- go back to 20/80, or even 23/80 it looks undergeared.(23 won't fit with 87, use 80tooth spur instead)
- try it off-road. On-road everything below 20 mph looks sloooow.
-Tighten the slipper nut.
-try a quality 8.4v 7 cell Nim
-it seems, indeed, to lack punch. Try the Traxxas ESC.

And, finally, when that doesn't do it, get to Conrad dot com ( they ship to GB, luckily) and get their 8t 4700Kv modelcraft set (235263 £85,98, VAT&shipped) no sensor, yet amazingly cog-free, even when going slooooooow. My Slash gets a solid 60 km/h with it ( gps-chcked), although it looks much faster, 80 easy, according to one optimistic friend of mine ) say 37mph. Only caveat:It was set-up for smooth, not aggressive from factory. Looked slow before I tweaked the settings. Using 20/87, it should theoretically do high 20's, even low 30's in the Wraith. Controlability?? Meh..who needs control...

Oh, and for good measure, order the aluminium shock-set from Reely (237115, a steal at £19,74 incl. VAT and shipping for a fullset of 4, fill with 200cpl voilá, instant upgraded suspension on the -relatively-cheap.)

I hope it helps for a bit..

Oh, and by the by, remember that the Titan has quite a bit more torque than the weezy 20t that ships with he Wraith, so, One can gear it quite a bit more aggressively without burning it to a crisp.
With exact same gearing, the 1500rpm that the Titan has over the 20t will, indeed, hardly be noticable, but that's not the point of a 550-can. Upping the gearing to (as advised) 23/80 will gain quite a bit of speed, without overly stressing the Titan.
Though ,I heard a lot of stories of bum-Titans that blew up in the stock Slash at the slightest provocation. I cannot comment on them, because my Titan keeps on chugging and I tried it on a lot of different RC' s, even on an obese Graupner 1:4 ATV. It blew the original stock-mod 17t away.

[madkawi650]

Your diff gears might be backward causing the motor to run backward.. I MUST be running counter clockwise when looking at it from the front looking at the pinion, when applying forward throttle. If not, your motor timing will be retarded causing poor performance and excessive motor heat.
My diff gears were in backward on my RTR wraith.


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[nuggsmoker]

holy crap i just learned alot thnx jay!

[Jay-Em]

Did a bit of testing:

-LRP x12 stockspec 13,3 t 3050kv 80/20gearing: 16.7 km/h good accelleration! Especially uphill. exellent climbing and crawling.

-Generic sensored 6.5 t carson shooter 4850kv 80/20 gearing: 33.8 km/h wild, uncontrollable accelleration. Torque twists like mad, despite stiff swaybars. Has a habit of wheelying itself upside-down... EDIT: Found out it is a re-badged Losi Excelorin 6.5, the one with the silver mid-piece. got 3 of those, a 5.5, a 6.5 and a 10.5. All from a clear-out sale. $10.- a piece.. wow.. talk about mazzel..

-titan 12t 20/80 :18,8 km/h meh accelleration. Wheelies for a bit. Seems to be unable to use it's grunt.

-titan 12t 23/80 : 20.2 km/h accellerates better oddly enough ( thought so) Shame that 23 is the biggest pinion I got available atm. It felt as if it wouldn't mind going to 25 teeth, due to the pure grunt the Titan has. I wouldn't be surprised if the Titan would feel quite at home with a 25/ 76 gearing.

-LRP 8.5 t Vector K4 4300kv 20/87 : 29.8 km/h. Feels undergeared. Crawls admirably though. I would advise this setup for a good median between speed on-road, trailing and battery life. Runs at least 20 min. On 4000mah. With a lot of slow crawling, I got to 45 min.

All with a 35/70c 7.4 rc-plus python car 4000 mah. Rc-ppc35-4000-2xx and an LRP SPX Super-Reverse. Pricey, but worth it.
All speeds checked with my certified " speedmetero-matic" (=wraith -kit with Nüvi 550 strapped to cage )

[crazee horse]

Originally Posted by madkawi650

Your diff gears might be backward causing the motor to run backward.. I MUST be running counter clockwise when looking at it from the front looking at the pinion, when applying forward throttle. If not, your motor timing will be retarded causing poor performance and excessive motor heat.
My diff gears were in backward on my RTR wraith.


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hmmmm i dont think they are backward, but then wtf do i know ? lol how would i tell ? i have ne heat issues at all. it was barely even warm today. quite shocking. am currently soldering deans and bullet plugs onto XL5.
watch this space !
jay-em your a legend

[Solitaire]

Try reverse. If it's faster than forward, then you'll know.

Yeah, Jay is just a wealth of knowledge.

[Jay-Em]

Heh... well.. That's what 25 years of tinkering with RC does..

My first " real" car was a Tamiya FAV,( and I just built the re-re.
Life is good :P )
1200 mah was the best that NiCads could muster. 30km/ h was considerd " crazy speed" for an electric buggy... fuelies were " top of the bill". nowadays, with the event of those newfangled brushlss motors, and mad powerful LiPo's, my old 2.5cc stadium truck was anemic. I thought it was fast, untill some young punk ran circles around it wit a stupid Reely B4 knock-off, powered by a 4.5t eraser. Sold it recently...( just kidding, I am that punk myself..)

Started with one car..they procreated like rabbits, I am pushing 30 cars by now. An attic full of toys

[Jay-Em]

Originally Posted by crazee horse

hmmmm i dont think they are backward, but then wtf do i know ? lol how would i tell ? i have ne heat issues at all. it was barely even warm today. quite shocking. am currently soldering deans and bullet plugs onto XL5.
watch this space !
jay-em your a legend

The fact that it did not get warm, is a dead-give-away that it is undergeared. Makes for loooong run-times though.

On To reverse or not to reverse: s'easy. Open-up the Rear diff-cover. Have a peek. The gear should be at the left-side for the motor to run CCW, as most stocks do.

Most rtr's have the gear on the right-side. A lazy way of fixin an issue where one axle is too long, and doesn't fit in the diff far enough.

[crazee horse]

? is that right or wrong ? i didnt know if you meant our left or the trucks left..............lol
put the XL5 in, all soldered up nice, a bit quicker but still lacking. im really lost. if the diff is in the wrong way how do you change ? sorry for all the questions mate.

[crazee horse]

FFS the front is on the wrong side too.

[Jay-Em]

No prob!

= currenty Backwards!! Gear should be at the left.( by the by..saw that you too got quite lot of water fromup the heavens?My testing was cut short because a deluge started.. )

1) Unscrew the thingies next to the diff

2) take off the wheels and the bits that are screwed to the axle.

3) wiggle the axles for a bit to the outside

4) diff will come out

5) turn the diff over so the gear is on Your left

6) slide axles back in so they grab the diff.

7) screw the bearing-holders back ( half moon shaped thingies on both sides of diff)

repeat at the front.

10) close diffs again

11) Wipe green goo from fingers.

Done! Motor runs right way now. You have to switch channel 2 from Your transmitter back to normal. It is switched to reverse from factory.

It would be a good thing to get the manual out, and have that handy.

By the by, had a bit of an epiphany and looked-up the gearing ratio.( in the back of the manual)
It's 30:1 stock. Given the fact that the wheels are 14cm diameter, and the car is about the same weight as a fully loaded Tamiya 2 wd monstertruck like the blackfoot( about 2.5 kg as I recall), and Tamiya's wheels are also close to 13cm, I bet the 550 will take 25/75 , or 20 :1 in stride, and speed will be greatly increased.

Tamiya usually chooses something like 20:1 or even 16:1 for it's big wheelers, and most of them do about 25 to 30 km, so, in hindsight, that must be possible for the Wraith too, be it that crawling will be severely hampered.

As it stands, the Wraith is wholly undergeared for a torqy 550 like the titan. I guess it is because Axial had to make some concessions to the crawling-community, and thusly the rather conservative gearing. Plus that a stock 20t has good rpm, but a lack of pulling- power, so, for it to function in a fat bugger Like the Wraith, they had to gear very VERY careful...and still it burns to a crisp more often than people are willing to accept ( and rightly so! Why axial didn't include a cheap fan-cooled 550, we will never know...)


Yeah, I know.. A lot of words but the odd results of Your experiments with the Titan got me thinking&pondering....

[crazee horse]

both diffs back to front. just done wrenching and now i can wheely on carpet lol, i think its got a bit more top end, wont know till tomorrow as im off to bed. thanks everyone.
especially Jay-Em and madkawi650.

[crazee horse]

now my biggest decision, where to put the sodding esc. battery is in the back, and i wanna keep the esc up front somewhere. im quite fond of the old 12t titan, ive had a few for a long long time, i fail to see how people burn them up so quick.
he said tempting fate................

[Jay-Em]

Originally Posted by crazee horse

both diffs back to front. just done wrenching and now i can wheely on carpet lol, i think its got a bit more top end, wont know till tomorrow as im off to bed. thanks everyone.
especially Jay-Em and madkawi650.

keep us informed how it goes.
Gotta go to bed too. Have to start at 7 , so I can be at home at 15:00 I expect a nice package from RC4WD

[Jay-Em]

i fail to see how people burn them up so quick.
he said tempting fate................

and thusly ended the story of the Titan that once hit 40km/h and reverted to it's original materials... : a lot of Glowing, flowing metal...

Nah.. It'll survive. heck, i -Accidentally, really!- dumped it ( and the Wraith with it) in a mud pool with dubious colour, it smoked and stank-up the place for a bit, and kept on going.

[madkawi650]

Originally Posted by crazee horse

both diffs back to front. just done wrenching and now i can wheely on carpet lol, i think its got a bit more top end, wont know till tomorrow as im off to bed. thanks everyone.
especially Jay-Em and madkawi650.

No prob... I learned it all on this site and I just enjoy passing it on to others when I can.. Hope the Titan holds up for you like my 21t Titan holds up for me.. I'm running mine on a MMP esc with 3s 3300mah Nanotek lipos..


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