stock speed ?

[Jay-Em]

Originally Posted by crazee horse

With bec, how quickly would 3s kill my titan ? Would it shorten its life that much? Just put a 3s in the wraith and it really sorted things out. After Christmas will be going down the 3p route I think. If it doesn't kill the motor to quickly.

with th weather as it is now(cold), it will probably give out after 10 to 12 4000mah packs, mostly due to the bearings of the titan wearing out.

if it gets warmer again, you'll irrepearably burn the brushes and communitator after about 7 packs (vry rough estimate) but hey, they're cheap, and readily availabl, so a bit of experimenting won't hurt.

[crazee horse]

they aint that cheap in the uk, £ 22 ! which would be expensive every ten packs

[Jay-Em]

Ay... £22???
Well now. I guess the next cheap option is the Graupner speed 600 race 7.2v
They are €15.- overhere, say £11.-
Their rpm is about the same as the Titan, say 22500, but the Graupner has a tad more torque, at least, it feels torqui-er( i doubt that word is in Webster's ) and can stand some higher voltage pretty well. Advise would be to go back to 87/20 when putting 11.v through it, though, otherwise amps will go through the roof. Amps burn collectors & brushes

If You're not averse to always having to use 3 cells, You could also opt for the graupner speed600 9,6 v. That one will most certainly survive 11v, and has gobs of pulling power to boot. Plus it's frugal with power. It'll run for at least 45min on a 4000 mah pack.

[crazee horse]

Done a tiny bit of looking at the graupner, and at the end of the day they cost the same as the Titan 12t, whilst perusing the web I noticed that they are boat motors .
Now please correct me if I'm wrong and probably am lol, surely propeller resistant in water would be a lot less than hoofing great off road tires caked in shit ?

[Jay-Em]

I'll correct You because You're wrong...


*mottled, scruffy learning-channel presenter shuffles in from behind curtain*

-"ahem"......


Boat motors need a lot of torque to get the high-pitch screws used to reach their best efficiency without causing cavitation ( air bubbles around the screw that almost act as sticky-balls, negating any driving force) water is a fairly thick medium. ( it's more complex than that, but You'll get the ghist of it)

Cars have reduction gear-boxes, racing boats don't. Makes quite the difference.

I raced direct-drive hydroplanes and hydro-drive deep vees for quite some time, so I am not entirely unknownt with the intricacies of boat motors and their characteristics.

Low-pitch screws give little resistance, but will cavitate like mad. High-pitched screws need a lot of torque. The most power is asked before a boat lifts and starts to glide, especially hydro-drive has super high-pitched screws, because they actually only have one blade in the water at optimum speed ( hence the rooster tails on high-powered speed-boats and hydroplanes) so, when the whole screw is submerged, it requires double the power and torque. Add to that the fact that, due to simple physics, a boat sortof "sticks" when in the water, and that stickiness is constantly there...well..You get the picture.

Basically the speed600 series are useful for almost any high-torque application. Mostly because their initial momentum is very impressive indeed.( axle-ripping kind of impressive with the right gearing)

Being boat motors, always enclosed witthin the boat, and not always used with water-cooling, makes them more resilient to high temperatures too.

I usually ran the 600 7.2v race on 9.6v without any major problem. They heated-up, but nothing terrible ever happened. Adding water cooling only improved the run-time, and i didn't have to wait between packs to let it cool.

All in all, they can withstand quite some abuse.

Oh, and as a bonus, they have a very smooth powercurve, great for precision crawling. They are not " nervous" motors. You'll see when You'll use them for trailing. No sudden uncontrollable burst of power( as low-turn 540's have), but a gradual increasing grunt, that doesn't seem to stop. Yet, enough initial "oomph!" to make the Wraith jump from the spot.

Yeah.. I know, a lot of positive talk, but I always liked the price-point, wear-resistance, simplicity and power of Graupner's 600's ( or, more correctly, Johnson 550's)

You can gear them to the moon, and they won't flinch.
Stay away from the " eco" versions, though, they are only useful for puttering scale tow-boats and such, do not take heat and/or higher-than-rated voltage very well. Use very little amps though.

Short of a cheap 5-slot Holmes, I honestly believe they are the cheapest way of staying with a stock- motor.

[crazee horse]

phew, that told me ! another impressive write up.

[Jay-Em]

heh.. well, it was actually my frugality that made me study characteritics of motors. I am quite the cheapskate if push comes to shove
i was sick&tired of paying thru the nose for re-branded Hong-Kong cheapies: bulk buy, GBP 3.- a piece, label with fancy name GBP 20.-

I just hope it will be helpful to You, and other readers. Not everybody has the funds to buy fancy hand-wounds or brushless sets, especially after already having forked-over GBP300 for the RTR..

[crazee horse]

well whilst transfering some rc gear from the spare room to the newly built corner in the garage i found some axial spares ! load of light pods etc and most importantly............................... a couple 75t spurs ! hmmm
im quite happy with my crawl ability with 23/80 so not sure how 23/80 will fare. im quite indecisive as to whether to 3s 21t and 20/80 or just 2s 23/80

[Jay-Em]

Well, if You got the stuff lying around, why not give both a try. the Titan will happily chug away with 25/80 on 2s. Tried it, goes great. Eats a bit more power, but I couldn't get it to overheat. Still jumps from the spot, and (mild) crawling isn't really hampered. To me it feels like this 25/80 lets the Titan, at last, really stretch it's legs.

By the by, I got my HotRacing front knucles&stuff, put them on my speed-demon (wraith with 6,5t Losi/Carson .xceleron geared 25/80), together with all steel gears, medium stiff HotRacing sway-bars, junfac dogbones and refilled my alu-90mm shocks with 350cpl. Wwhoohooooo!!!! thing's fast, despite weighing a ton with all the alu-goodies. I could finally test the speed. Topped-out at 47km/h. Waaay too fast to be practical, but impressive none the less. And pretty controllable ( when the front weels are back on the ground, that is..)

Overpowered? Yup! Wil it crawl? Well, to my astonishment some mild crawling and climbing (more like catapulting) over logs&stuff went remarkably well, despite open diffs front&rear.

[crazee horse]

We really need a vid buddy !

[Natedog]

Great reading, thanks for all the useful motor info!

I'm going 3s 35T. And I got a buddy loaner 27T to try out.

[crazee horse]

well i finally got round to installing the 75t well tried to



it hasnt got the holes for the slipper screws..................... or am i missing something ?

[jpraccer]

Originally Posted by crazee horse

I'm going round a friends later who has a castle link, so I will check if its set up correctly first, and if it still isn't no good I'll be installing the traxxas 12t. Don't want ballistic just 15-mph would be better.
If I just install the new motor then it won't work for long? To change rotation couldn't I just swap the motor wires around?
I don't understand the diff switch. Lol thanks for the reply.

Dont put this in i have it in mine... Its ok on speed but it has absolutly no torq for crawling. Just trying to help ;)

[crazee horse]

I just can't see how you can install it when the holes to attach the slipper are go the wrong place?

[Jay-Em]

You'll have to drill the right holes Yourself. The one in Your hands looks like a brand-specific slipper gear. Most universal-gears meant for slippers, like kimbroughs, have oodles of holes, so there are holes aplenty to fit.

Just take the axial gear, put it on top of this gear, stick a screw and some bushings through the hole in the middle, so both gears are exactly centered, and carefully drill away with a 3.0 mm dremel, using the axial gear as a template.
( heh, You didn't think I'd let You get away with just replacing a gear ey?? Drilling improvised holes You will, my Padawan )

On a lazy moment I once even used a body reamer... Real red-neck style improv. Looked terrible, worked pretty darn well, had just the tiniest bit of a wobble.

By the by, ordered me a 75t spur gear....., got a robitronic one, but it's only 3mm wide... Nice for touring-cars, or pro 10, but it'll last about 1second with a Titan...

My LHS clearly has no clue as to what Abuse a weighty Wraith, and a well-run in Titan, will dish-out.

@JPRACCER
Crawling isn't our main concern here, we are only trying to ascertain what kind of speed we can wrench from a Titan 12t. I got it up to 26 km/h with 80/25 gearing, with a good 8.4v and the Titan didn't get more than luke warm= still undergeared- and still was able to bomb around some fairly heavy terrain.

If crawling was the goal, a Titan 21t on 3-cells would have been the easiest way, but what fun is there in that?

[crazee horse]

well i just been up the woods with the dog and wraith, got about 45 minutes+ out of a turnigy 2s 5000mah, did a bit of light crawling and slow hill climbing, thrashing down muddy leafy straights etc, then as i crawled over a branch and dropped down the other side i thought wow scale smoke.......................
so i had a look, threw it down and carried on driving it. im not sure if its me or not but i think its a little slower, but as no one else knows it before and after i could just be getting myself at it.

i love muddy trails, and if this has gone pop so easily then i think ive got to go 21t and 3s.
so questions.
1, would i still get around the same speed as my 12t on 2s 23/80 if i go 21t 20/80 ?
2, motor ? traxxas 21 reverse rotation ? or graupner speed 600 9.6 (can the graupner spin both ways ?) also do i get the turbo or just a 600 9.6?
3, traxxas21t"s they come in 14.4 and 16.8.................?
4, is a BEC a must ? im running the xl5.
5, anyone tried these ? http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-sl4000...-hardcase.html
if i cant match the speed im getting now fron my 12t i may just smack it on flea bay. its beginning to wind me up a little.

[Jay-Em]

Speed600 9.6 runs both ways the same.
Flipped diffs( as you did) need a "normal" CCW-rotating motor.

21t is deadly slow, even on 11.1v. Crawler afficionados have a different concept of " speed" from us, TC and buggy-boys. They think 35km/h is " silly fast", while we nod off. Listen to the crawler specialists, and You'll get sloooow speeds with ludicrous, axle-snappin, chassis-twisting torque. Listen to general bashers, and the breakage is more due to confrontations with the rather brusque bleeding-off of momentum ( also known as " slamming into the side-walk @ 60km/h)

11.1v needs a BEC. XL5 might survive... For some it did. Others toasted it.

The 600 turbo needs a lot of volts to have some speed. 14.8 at least.

Bottomline: speed&crawlability means invariable You'll have to go sensored brushless. Even a stock 13.5 on 25/80 will run circles around the Titan, whatever gearing that has.

( sorry if message seems curt, but Safari crashed 2 times already when typing a very elaborate answer..grrrr, so , I hope to be quick enough to post before the next crash. Safari dun'like this forum )

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

Speed600 9.6 runs both ways the same.
Flipped diffs( as you did) need a "normal" CCW-rotating motor.

11.1v needs a BEC. XL5 might survive... For some it did. Others toasted it.

The 600 turbo needs a lot of volts to have some speed. 14.8 at least.

IME over volting an esc has always toasted them....Novak, HPI, etc....I tried and they smoked very quickly.

[Jay-Em]

Originally Posted by Natedog

IME over volting an esc has always toasted them....Novak, HPI, etc....I tried and they smoked very quickly.

I didn't even try. I tend to believe those that did on their word ( and the suspicious smell of BBQ'd electronics lingering around them )

[crazee horse]

Oh dear. I'm back to square one again. May look at a cheap brushless hobbywing on flea bay, cod water proof it myself.
Not happy, may trade wraith for another e maxx.
After I cry myself to sleep.
Lol