reverse rotation motor?

[94smasher]

I believe I read in the motors thread that the Wraith uses a reverse rotation motor...is this true? And does that mean the + motor wire goes to the - side of the motor, and vice versa?

[madkawi650]

I was confused with this at first too.. I believe, and don't quote me on this, but I think the issue was some trucks having the diff ring gear installed backward. This would mean you would have to reverse the rotation of the motor to achieve forward motion with forward throttle. it was done a production level, they would just flick the throttle direction switch to "R" to reverse the rotation. It should NOT be this way. Most motors are designed to spin counterclockwise for forward throttle. Its the timing advance built into the motor that usually dictates this. To run all the time reversed would be using negative timing. A motor can handle this but not for long periods and at very reduced efficiency causing excessive heat. There are specially designed motors that do run backward, like one of the E-Maxx motors. but the wraith does not need reverse motors if the diffs are done right.
Switching the motor wires will achive the same result as switching the throttle channel to reverse. An ESC is also designed with a Forward and a reverse. Usually higher Amps in forward with higher speeds. Some escs will light up green when you pull forward throttle and red when you push reverse.
You can use a combo of Motor wire switching and throttle channel direction switching with proper diff assembly to achieve CCW spinning motor and a green forward light when forward throttle applied and a truck that goes forward when apllying forward throttle..\\

Say all that 10 times .. lol

[94smasher]

hmm...thanks!! I think I'm gonna have to read this a few more times, tho...

[94smasher]

so, I just got mine apart, and as far as I can tell...the motor was turning counter-clockwise to go forward. (CCW looking at the pinion end of the motor) So maybe I just put all the wires back the way they were?

[K.O.M.]

So, this is more general information, but:

There are several instances where you will need to have a motor run clockwise (reverse rotation, CW), such as when you mirror the stock AX10 tranny, or have an MOA setupb, but the way you achieve that with any adjustable endbell motor is to loosen the two endbell screws and rotating the endbell 180 degrees. You do not want to simply swap the +/- leads on the motor itself.

Now, if all you have are the stock, kit supplied motors, which are "sealed" (there are tricks to break them open and make them better, but that's another lesson--mostly learned from having to race with a sealed 540 silver can in a spec series), then you will need to reverse the leads at the motor.

In any case, you do not want to run your ESC by reversing the channel on your transmitter, because as noted earlier, most reversing ESCs are rated at a higher amperage going forward than reverse--not to mention losing the braking function if you are using it, and really messing you up if you have to set the drag brake intensity.

[madkawi650]

Originally Posted by 94smasher

so, I just got mine apart, and as far as I can tell...the motor was turning counter-clockwise to go forward. (CCW looking at the pinion end of the motor) So maybe I just put all the wires back the way they were?

Sounds like your motor, ESC, and diffs are set up right.
I'd leave it the way is was.



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[94smasher]

Awesome...thanks again!! Interesting that it's only some that are like that...just another neat surprise for us noobs

[taehome]

So after reading this I had to go and check my son's Wraith. The throttle switch is reversed and the lights on the esc go red with throttle and green with brake. If the radio is switched the motor runs CCW but the drive train goes in reverse.
With all the stock rtr gear does anything need to be changed? If it should be changed what is the best approach? Swittching the motor wires? Changing something else? I'm confused.

[ZippoMan]

When building my Wraith kit I had to just reverse the throttle in my Futaba 3PM-X. If I didn't the controls worked backwards. Harley the moderator on the Wraith forum said it is perfectly normal and fine to reverse the channel on the transmitter. He said it has no affect on performance. Once I reversed the TX throttle channel it is now functioning the way it should. Green led for throttle and forward....Red for reverse on the AE-2 ESC. I guess in my case it is the radio and receiver combo and nothing to do with wires being backwards or motors set-up backwards. I am using a Holmes Hobbies 35T Torque Master Expert motor.

[TheSaundo]

I think what you have to do is open the front and rear diffs in the axles and take the spool out and switch the ring gear to the opposite side it was on, I think.
As far as just switching the ESC on your transmitter, I believe you can do this if your brushed motor is timed at zero, otherwise it would run faster in reverse compared to forward.

[K.O.M.]

Originally Posted by ZippoMan

When building my Wraith kit I had to just reverse the throttle in my Futaba 3PM-X. If I didn't the controls worked backwards. Harley the moderator on the Wraith forum said it is perfectly normal and fine to reverse the channel on the transmitter. He said it has no affect on performance. Once I reversed the TX throttle channel it is now functioning the way it should. Green led for throttle and forward....Red for reverse on the AE-2 ESC. I guess in my case it is the radio and receiver combo and nothing to do with wires being backwards or motors set-up backwards. I am using a Holmes Hobbies 35T Torque Master Expert motor.

That's perfectly fine, what I meant to say was that if your car was running "backwards" on the ground, and the ESC was running "forward" with you pulling the trigger, you shouldn't just flip the channel reverse without first checking that the ESC is indeed functioning correctly--which you checked via the lights.

[itpizza]

Still confused here... is it normal if the esc running forward shows a red light and going backward a green light? I have the feeling the engine going backward is stronger

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by itpizza

Still confused here... is it normal if the esc running forward shows a red light and going backward a green light? I have the feeling the engine going backward is stronger

No, it's not right. You want that green light for forward. Manufacturers build the ESC to have a higher current capacity going forward. Using more FETs for forward than reverse. You might need to flip the switch on your radio to reverse the throttle channel, reprogram the ESC (to be certain), then either wire the motor backwards or rotate the endbell 180 degrees. Then, adjust the motor's timing to get it a hair faster in forwards than reverse.

[madkawi650]

When applying forward throttle your truck should move forward.. Haha.. But all kidding aside.
The truck moves forward, the light to be Green on the ESC and the motor to be spinning CCW as viewed looking straight in at the pinion gear.
If forward motion of your truck has the motor spinning CCW but lights are red.. Switch the 2 motor wires AND switch your throttle channel on your controller. I would then re calibrate.. Set all your trims to the desired places, and then with the ESC off and TX turned on, hold full throttle and turn on the trucks ESC. You'll hear lots of beeps after the beep beep beep beep ( 4 beeps) push trigger to full reverse and wait for the 4 beeps, then let the trigger go to neutral and wait for the 4 beeps.. Your now ready to roll.
Youll be running the motor the way it was designed, and the ESC the way it was designed..


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[savagebeast]

what about running a brushless setup? how would you get the motor running right?

[itpizza]

Originally Posted by EeePee

No, it's not right. You want that green light for forward. Manufacturers build the ESC to have a higher current capacity going forward. Using more FETs for forward than reverse. You might need to flip the switch on your radio to reverse the throttle channel, reprogram the ESC (to be certain), then either wire the motor backwards or rotate the endbell 180 degrees. Then, adjust the motor's timing to get it a hair faster in forwards than reverse.

Strange becouse I bought an RTR... I supposed it was ready to run forward

Is it better to rotate the endbells or wire the motor backwards?

[itpizza]

Originally Posted by madkawi650

When applying forward throttle your truck should move forward.. Haha.. But all kidding aside.
The truck moves forward, the light to be Green on the ESC and the motor to be spinning CCW as viewed looking straight in at the pinion gear.
If forward motion of your truck has the motor spinning CCW but lights are red.. Switch the 2 motor wires AND switch your throttle channel on your controller. I would then re calibrate.. Set all your trims to the desired places, and then with the ESC off and TX turned on, hold full throttle and turn on the trucks ESC. You'll hear lots of beeps after the beep beep beep beep ( 4 beeps) push trigger to full reverse and wait for the 4 beeps, then let the trigger go to neutral and wait for the 4 beeps.. Your now ready to roll.
Youll be running the motor the way it was designed, and the ESC the way it was designed..


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Thanks mate, I'll try this. But why was set up like this? Is a production mistake or what?

[madkawi650]

The 8 year old Asian boy they pay $12 a day is working like wild fire and often overlooks things.. If the diff got put in backward, the next 8 year old is trained to flip the wires to compensate..
Production mistakes are Common


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[JohnRobHolmes]

I wouldn't call it a production mistake, but it is a consistent production occurrence. I would call it a design mistake instead, they are using a CCW motor in a rig that assembled for a CW motor. The motor itself is zero timed, so it doesn't care. Instead of flipping the motor wires they flip the radio channel. On the stock ESC it doesn't really matter since the forward and reverse fet counts are equal. For programming, it can be an issue since everything is backwards from the manual.

[itpizza]

Interesting, so even reprogramming with a cc link I will have to choose between red led going forward or having issues programming the esc backwards?