Too much articulation wtf?!!?!?

[AR Fabrication]

I've been reading a lot of people commenting on setups that have "too much flex", but not one person has given any useful information that points to the negative impacts of too much flex.

Enlighten me.

[ScaleFreak93]

Enlighten yourself, not trying to sound rude but just try searching. There are numerous threads on this exact subject, some short, some long but all offer any and all info you could want

[Meatwad]

Searching helps

Too much articulation can get you into a situation that a rig with too much articulation can't get out of. Typically crevices, verts and some undercut situations. A good rule of thumb is a standing tire height of articulation, anything more is an '05 poser pic.

[mtnyote]

the moment your rig stops articulating it starts pushing the tire down into the rock giving u traction. A crawler with too much flex just flops around on the rocks.

[BELADOG]

Originally Posted by Meatwad

anything more is an '05 poser pic.

Lol! thats the second jem of the day from you!
F-in hilarious

Im quoting that in my sig.

[AR Fabrication]

Originally Posted by ScaleFreak93

Enlighten yourself, not trying to sound rude but just try searching. There are numerous threads on this exact subject, some short, some long but all offer any and all info you could want

If you don't understand the subject matter then don't post.

[AR Fabrication]

Originally Posted by Meatwad

Searching helps

Too much articulation can get you into a situation that a rig with too much articulation can't get out of. Typically crevices, verts and some undercut situations. A good rule of thumb is a standing tire height of articulation, anything more is an '05 poser pic.

This makes no sense to me at all. I don't see how articulation can get you into a situation that you can't get out of. To me it sounds like you will reach the limits of your setup on a more difficult line than a less performing (articulating) setup would allow.

And anything more than a tire height is poser, really...

[AR Fabrication]

Originally Posted by mtnyote

the moment your rig stops articulating it starts pushing the tire down into the rock giving u traction. A crawler with too much flex just flops around on the rocks.

I don't agree with this and I'll tell you why. Imagine your truck approaching a very steep wall at a 45 degree angle. As the leading front tire climbs the wall the suspension articulates allowing all tires to be in contact with either the wall or the ground. As soon as the front axle reaches it's articulation limit the rear tire will lose contact with the ground which causes loss of traction.

The more articulation you have the more time tires spend on a traction surface.

[Tin Soldier]

Well I have found the generally lots if articulation leads to chassis twist actually lifting a wheel. Also a tire will flop on its side and not be able get back up right easily.

I suppose this is all on your driving style. I find I do much better with less articulation.

Sent using Tapatalk on my Sprint Evo

[AR Fabrication]

Originally Posted by Tin Soldier

Well I have found the generally lots if articulation leads to chassis twist actually lifting a wheel. Also a tire will flop on its side and not be able get back up right easily.

I suppose this is all on your driving style. I find I do much better with less articulation.

Sent using Tapatalk on my Sprint Evo

So with chassis twist are you saying that as you give throttle it loads the rear and some of that power is absorbed by the suspension and causes torque twist. If so that is more of a problem with the mounting location of the links and shock setup.

As for a tire flopping on it's side, I can understand that if an axle flexes 90 degrees and can't right itself that it can be too much flex. But what I have been reading on the forum is that anything more than a tire or tire and a half height is for trying to impress chicks. I'm not buying it...

[hellbounder]

Well I guess you know it all then , your good to go. there's a reason everybody went from rigs with 90 degree articulation to limited suspension setup's. Do a search on the subject , it's been covered many times , by People that have been through the evolution of the crawler. Plus that search will get you a lot farther than being a dick around here.

[AR Fabrication]

Originally Posted by hellbounder

Well I guess you know it all then , your good to go. there's a reason everybody went from rigs with 90 degree articulation to limited suspension setup's. Do a search on the subject , it's been covered many times , by People that have been through the evolution of the crawler. Plus that search will get you a lot farther than being a dick around here.

Well I don't really recall being a dick, but ok. And I have yet to claim to know it all. It's pretty simple really, I asked a question and when someone gave their opinion I gave my opinion. Not really looking for an argument here, I'm looking for a good discussion.

[tozrovr]

If you have articulation with no weight on the cantact patch, you just have a nice picture or an RTI whore as we used to say in the 1:1 world.

Let's look at it in a different situation. You're hanging by your ankles on a raised track in your basement. You need to use your fingers to "walk" your way across the floor. If all you have is your fingertips, then you want as much pressure on them as possible. If the track is a little too high, you're fingers will barely even reach the floor...you will have no finger traction to pull you across the room.

Lower the track two inches and suddenly you have more pressure and more grip.


On a crawler, you can let the suspension stretch all you like, but if it's just barely touching the rock or the ground, it doesn't improve your situation (moving forward off the obstacle).

On the other side of the coin, you can drop the wheel into a spot between 2 rocks...if that wheel has no traction to pull you back up and the attitude of the chassis doesn't change, that wheel will stay hung low and literally snag the truck.

Back in the day all the guys running leaf springs went bananas over the Terraflex Revolver shackles. These were amazing on an RTI ramp and suddenly the lowly YJ had some respect ;) Until folks hit the rocks and realized the articulation without downforce on the contact patch was useless.




RJ

[tozrovr]

A GREAT setup to combat the lack of pressure was Soni Honnegor's Scorpion MK1.
:: A Look Back, A Few Of My Favorite Rock Rigs Of All Time
He used an air system to force the wheel down.

[foratm]

I just started experimenting with articulation I used to think I wanted the most possible. I have recently found that not only do you get more traction from the action of pushing the weight that was lifted on the opposite side to the tire down hill from it but it also makes your rig predictable. I'll explain.... With too much articulation the c.o.g. Changes on you at different angles causing more rolling. Also when trying to go over gaps you are more likely to get sucked in from the excessive movement in the suspension which we all know is a point and time burner.
Honestly the best thing for you to do is buy fuel tube. Set your rig for the most articulation you can run it a bit the put the fuel tube on your shocks maybe only eighth inch at a time and run with different limiters until you like it. I personally like a lot of articulation in the front and bit less on the rear.

Sent from my over compensating smart phone.

[2500hdon37s]

Originally Posted by Track Rat

The more articulation you have the more time tires spend on a traction surface.

true, but that takes weight off the tires that actually need the extra weight transferred from the tire off the ground. and weight= traction.

but if you dont believe us, go try it for your self... that simple, just remember that you can have too little or too much.

[mtnyote]

Originally Posted by Track Rat

I don't agree with this and I'll tell you why. As soon as the front axle reaches it's articulation limit the rear tire will lose contact with the ground which causes loss of traction.

The more articulation you have the more time tires spend on a traction surface.

You're not getting it.

Just because all four tires arent touching the ground, doesnt mean you have no traction. You actually have more "grip" in many cases because you have more psi pushing down on the rocks.

Limited flex is crucial to any technical crawling. It's easy to float a tire over a big hole.

Rather than ask people to enlighten you and then arguing for your entertainment, why don't you get off the computer and get some real world experience. If you like 90* of flex then run it. I sure as shit won't.

[Sevastra]

Originally Posted by mtnyote

You're not getting it.

Just because all four tires arent touching the ground, doesnt mean you have no traction. You actually have more "grip" in many cases because you have more psi pushing down on the rocks.

Limited flex is crucial to any technical crawling. It's easy to float a tire over a big hole.

...

You want to limit flex because if you dont, the tire can fall into a crevice, snag and not be able to crawl back out. Once this happens you start breaking parts. Axles, knuckles, etc.. The ability to float a tire over a hole really comes in handy. Hence why people on 1:1 vehicles attach straps to limit suspension travel / flex.

[Soulo747]

It boils down to contact patch. The more rubber on the rocks, the better off you'll be. You don't want to be "floating" on the rocks, which is what too much articulation will provide you.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?11d3ce

[BELADOG]

I'm just happy you are all starting to offer some real examples instead of just telling him to look it up.
This is what the op asked for in the first place. Now he has some base reasons to not go too big and has the choice to make.

You are all awesome and smart and helpful when your not too busy being dicks

Like I said in the other thread last night.
I am amazed when I watch you guys conquer obstacles I could not even approach. Us noobies all seem to get stuck on the articulation thing for some reason. Obviously experience has changed the thought process and we are just stubborn. This thread has now become the most helpful
Yet!

This forum and it's members is such a fantastic resource.
Thank you all.