FMJ's XR10; the Grave Over Winter Rebuild

[Morbid Angel]

This is a consolidation of information for my own purposes. Most like you will have seen much of the contents done before. But referrals of parts or suggestions appreciated.

Going for a lighter weight crawler here, not sure where the final numbers will end up, probably on the low to mid 4#. Still plenty of parts and tuning to figure out before the spring.

So far the list is as follows, but lots may change by completion as we all well know:

- Axial CF XR10 Chassis. I like this chassis.
- Blue Monkey Ti links w/ 4mm rod ends and stainless balls
- RC Bro knuckle weights
- VP gearboxes, hubs, knuckles
- Stock delrin gear boxes F&R
- RC4WD gears in boxes F&R
- Axial FDG in front diff
- Hot Racing FDG in rear diff
- VP motor plates Drilled for weight reduction
- BTA steering
- AX10 delrin shocks
- Push Pen Springs
- All Aluminum screws incl. 2mm washers (purple)
- Ti screws
- SS screws
- VP SLW hubs, 655 & 255 (?) cant remember
- Losi 4mm aluminum wheel nuts
- more and forgotten


Electronics

- Hitech 7950TH servo
- Tekin 35T HD x2
- Castle BEC not programmed for 3 cell yet.
- Tekin FXRs x2
- Fubata 4PL
- Battery not decided on yet.


For an idea of the weight saving of screw here is an example: BH M3x.5x20mm
- Aluminum 0.34g
- Titanium 0.58g
- Stainless 1.04g

All washers on this rig are aluminum, thin 2mm. All axle screws are aluminum anodized purple more for quick reference for me than for cosmetics, although now that they're in they sure are pretty.
The screw for suspension links and shocks are titanium as well as two small screws in the front diff for the VP upper link mount.
The only stainless screw so far is the one for the tie rod to servo horn. These SS screws are pretty heavy and will only be used for areas that prove too much for titanium.
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The Final Drive Gears are different for a reason. The RC4WD lightweight / hardened FDG weighed in @ >24g. I have RC4WD, Axial and Hot Racing Lightened and hardened FDG's so weighed and placed Axial's (>19g) in the front & HR's (>18g) in the rear. for a total of 12g of weight savings.
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Vp's gearbox is all metal and weigh 31.85g w/o the motor plate. The stock plastic GB weigh in @ 15.06g. I've never had a problem w/ gear boxes exploding so I decided to forgo the trend and stick with the plastic housing for a weight savings of 33.58g in weight savings (16.79g ea).
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VP's C-Hubs are all metal and weigh in @ 6.03g. The stock plastic ones weigh in @ 3.04g. Kept my plastics for weight savings of 5.98g.
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VP's Motor Plate weighs in @ 12.87g. I drilled them out to better displace heat and save on weight + quick lube and check on filings build up. They sit @ ~10.85g. Total weight savings is ~4.04g

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VP's Axle Case Cap is all metal and weighs in @ 13.2g but has very nice upper link mount w/ options. Stock plastic ACC weighs 6.76g. I decided I wanted a lightweight ACC but also want the VP ULM options. So broke out my dremel and went to work. Final product weighs in @ 7.8g for a savings of 5.4g.

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I dont remember what the stock shocks weigh, or the springs. But the stock shocks from my old XC-10 only weigh something like 11g all filled and with push pen springs. I'll get pics and actual weight in later when I officially build them. For now they are sitting on the chassis to give me something of an idea and I'm out of time for the next few weeks.

Also customizing some rims. Pics and info to come.

For now here are some progress shots.

Front Diff, @ 526g for precise numbers


Rear diff, actual weight is 378g. The pic has the RC4WD FDG in, it was replaced with the 6g lighter HR FDG


1053g precise weight.

As it stands right now, the rear diff, all links and chassis are only 3gr heavier than the assembled front axel.

Bad pic, Broken phone, will fix later


These CF rims will be fixed up w/ new aluminum screws later, and will be for the rear, front will have different rims. Bad pic, Broken phone, will fix later.


Some parts still needed are:
- CF upper links?
- new body
- tires & foams
- smash my electronics
or
- new electronics
- one of them tiny 400 puller motors i think Rowdy is using?
- battery plate lightweight
- decide on a battery

Any comments or suggestions are welcome as well as referals to parts and vendors.
I was thinking about making some links and or axle housing from CF or DRAGON PLATE tubing. Dragon plate tubing is 50/50 CF & Kevlar for an improved allowable flex tolerance, plus it looks bad ass. Anyone interested in fabbing some of this housing or links from this stuff for me let me know!

[winnerone23]

Nice work F-M-J! I like the use of the stock axle top w/ the VP link mount.. Very well played!

I don't have my XR anymore, but found a couple stock link mounts and a couple VP link mount tops that where custom ano'd bright red.. I might just have to mod them to mod them, before selling.. Lol..

Suggestions... Ur front uppers are Way too long! Ur servo should be level, for best performance.
Ur drag link should be behind ur horn w/ a button head thru the link and loctite'd into the horn. No need for a nut. IMO..

I make CF links, motor guards, servo guards, and battery plates.. (It won't be till I get laid off this winter tho) if you wanted anything.. I use Dragon Plate CF.. Just not the Kevlar tube.

Foams.. CI double deuce foams! Size depends on ur tire choice.

I used smashed fxr's until I switched to HH Br mini's. With the Br mini's pre smashed from HH, they are hard to pass on. That and they are the Only purpose made esc's for crawling.
I can Promise you, Rowdy isn't running a 400.. Lol.. He's a Brood driver.
I have a HH 400 puller in my sporty and enjoy it Greatly! But.... For the XR, I suggest crawl type motors.. 13t HH 500 puller's are my go to motor of choice and Love them!

Choice of battery depends on ur use. Fun crawling or comp crawling?
I like the Gforce 500mah 50c 3s

[sic1to]

^^^ what he said!!! Troy helped me out with my xr & it is still hard to part with since the rebuild!!! Im just under 4bs with room to cut more weight but not changin nothin on this one! HH puller motors are amazing.

[Morbid Angel]

Originally Posted by winnerone23

Nice work F-M-J! I like the use of the stock axle top w/ the VP link mount.. Very well played!
Thanks! I thought so too. Very spur of the moment.

Suggestions... Ur front uppers are Way too long! Ur servo should be level, for best performance.
Indeed. Just a mock up at this point to see where she sits.
Ur drag link should be behind ur horn w/ a button head thru the link and loctite'd into the horn. No need for a nut. IMO..
It will be behind, it's only together right now so I could scale it up intact. I still have to reverse the horn as I will be running the servo upside down in this set up. I want to stay away from locktight on my servo, from past experiences, which where my own fault. Anyhow the nut behind will act as a lock nut to keep the screw from backing off.

I make CF links, motor guards, servo guards, and battery plates.. (It won't be till I get laid off this winter tho) if you wanted anything.. I use Dragon Plate CF.. Just not the Kevlar tube.
Just made a CF battery mount for the front axle and mounted. It is not pictured but sits @ just shy of a gram. I may be in the market, where can I see your stuff? Really thinking about making a whole axel housing from tube DP, and some sort of pumpkin for the FDG, but not sure how I'd do it and I dont have the tools to do so anyhow.

Foams.. CI double deuce foams! Size depends on ur tire choice.
Prob will do the Voodoo silvers or golds depending on the final weigh in w/ DD again depending on the weight...Narrowed for weight and contact patch

I used smashed fxr's until I switched to HH Br mini's. With the Br mini's pre smashed from HH, they are hard to pass on. That and they are the Only purpose made esc's for crawling.
I may smash mine, or re assign one to my up coming sporty build. May just go with the BR mini

I can Promise you, Rowdy isn't running a 400.. Lol.. He's a Brood driver.
I have a HH 400 puller in my sporty and enjoy it Greatly! But.... For the XR, I suggest crawl type motors.. 13t HH 500 puller's are my go to motor of choice and Love them!
I couldnt remember who on here was driving what, but anyways I think I'll go with dual Puller 400's, just not sure what if I'd go 33t or 38t, still not sure how crucial this is. This could change though, I have more research to do on some of the new motors out there. I gotta do all my calculations still. Want to keep it light.


Choice of battery depends on ur use. Fun crawling or comp crawling?
I like the Gforce 500mah 50c 3s
I'll look into these. Def in the 500mah market.

Thanks for looking! Always in need of pointers, and someone looking from the outside. Sometimes we get so into things we cant see a simple mistake or mis measure.

[winnerone23]

Hmm.. Running ur servo upsidedown? The horn in the air? Or the horn to the back of the axle?
Horn under ur axle? I'm interested!

I don't mean loctite ur servo, just the screw from the drag link to the horn. (Which I'm prolly misunderstanding ur wording)

Awesome battery plate!

33t for torque and wheel speed..
Tho the overall weight to performance variable, still says(IMO) the 5 slot is the best. Weight to performance goes to the 500 puller.

EDIT: I'm also under the impression that HH is going to be bringing the 30t arm's back for the 400's.. So if you went with a skewed armature in the 400, it would be close on startup performance. :thumbsup:

[Morbid Angel]

Originally Posted by winnerone23

Hmm.. Running ur servo upsidedown? The horn in the air? Or the horn to the back of the axle?
Horn under ur axle? I'm interested!

Dont read into it too much, just flipping the servo so the horn is on the "passenger" side to use a shorter tie rod. Thats why it looks all mucked up in the photo, it's not set up right as you can see it is in a binded state. I just have the thing dressed, not set up yet.

I dunno, I may try and rig something up though for a BTA horn placement or maybe run the servo vertically like the bully 2. Speaking of, wish I would have bought the bullys instead of a second set of xr10 diffs... oh well.

[FLOKI-81]

I`ve seen you done the two bolt mod when I saw the pictures off the underside off the axels,,,
Nice color with the purlple alu-hardware..
I mean it,,, use a hudy iron on those aluscrews or else you will have to dremmel a cut in them to take em out with a flatiron..

[Morbid Angel]

Few new parts going on, little bit of work on some days off, not much.

New things received:
- silver voodoo's
- 1" plexi rims
- HH BR mini's
- links
- titanium gear shafts

Replaced the F/R upper Ti links with aluminum links. We will see how they stand up, if I need to put the Ti's back on later due to an impact bend I will but until then..
Ti uppers = 46.76g, Alu uppers = 38.72gr, total weight savings 8.04g

*Added a custom CF battery plate weighing .8gr (or less) and a CF rear housing brace /edit*

Cant remember the type of vanquish hubs I have, I think they are 600 & 220? Any how they are on in reverse as the front 220's wont fully fit with the rims and weight rings on. I think the front is running a little heavy any how @ 61g per side so one of the full circle brass rings will come off of each side later, thus curing my hub issue.

With the future install of the BR mini over the FXR's I think Ill stand to loose another ~10-20g. We'll see.


But exciting news for me, I have the roller weights and they turned out better than I had thought they would, though I would still like to shave off a few ounces.

Bodiless 3#15.4oz / 1798gr / 63.5oz
Yes I see that my motor protector is getting over my tie rod.

W/ the illegal, over painted & rock rashed body 4# & a half ounce.


links are working out good, and sitting at a very practical roll over height.


[URL=http://s870.photobucket.com/user/Hanthorn/media/XR10/E4201A76-4574-4C4A-8155-E5130E5E2621.jpg.html][/URL



More things to come:
- 16-20 gauge wire & re-soldering?
- plexi plate to move electronics up to front tranny?
- custom lightweight Brood motors? $500 USD tho.........
- New body & paint scheme!!
- mini deans?
- can I build and design some custom carbon fibre slim shocks? I think I can, but should I... hmm.. $$$ & tiiiiiime
- CF upper links?... meh probably not, but that would dump me into the 3# range me thinks.
- install my Ti gear shafts, tho whats the weights savings really going to look like after that hassle.. srsly.
- slim rims down to .75"?
- cut n shut voodoo's?
- remove some front weight
- relocate shocks more horizontally


i will think of lots more I'm sure..

any suggestions or ideas?

[crawlinghulls]

Great job so far - digging your gear mix-up for weight savings

Never ran Brood's (only hear good things) so can't comment but I finally picked up some 500 crawls from hh and they are the smoothest damn things I've ever driven.

I did the same with my servo - had to bend up a much shorter link, works like a dream..

[Morbid Angel]

I also have an idea for "worminator" style xr10 axles using xr diffs & gears with CV shafts and dragon plate tubes... I dont know if that would work.. maybe chopping up some worminator housing and splicing with xr diffs... maybe one day i will try it out. Wish I had more access to fabing and machining equipment. I have a friend who is a machinist but he's so far away its not practical to have his help.

When you guys are fabbing things up, what program do you use for your drawings? google sketch? auto cad? I know little of these things but I have so many idea's in my head I need to get out and only a small amount is for crawling junk.

[Morbid Angel]

Been awhile but I finally found some time to throw some new parts and ideas together.

Arrived in the mail:
- HH 400 puller motors
- Ti tranny shafts
- CI 6 Bolt wheels
- New Body
- new CI DD foams
- Genes 450 mah batts
- new cc bec 11.4v set up
- YSS DD chassis


Still waitiing on:
- Creeperbob rear Ti shafts
- KC skins


Axial XR CF chassis w/ hardware 53.09g


YSS DD chassis w/ no hardware ~20.64g : ~32.45g weight savings


Steel stock tranny shafts:
R: 8.11g F: 6.something g
Ti shafts:
R: 4.58g (3.53g saved) F: 3.83g (>2.17g saved)

Motors:
Tekin 35t HD >171g HH 400 Puller 131g (80g saved overall)

Chassis with br minis, pullers, servo. ESC's where just test fitted, they are actually up front and off the chassis now.




fully assembled


Did a cap mod on the shocks because the angle was crap on this chassis. Fabbed up a longer and angled link to cap. Installed internal and external springs and shock limiters. Using Mugen Super Silicone (for diff) #1000 oil in all shocks.

Made an electronics plate / chassis skid / front motor saver from some polycarb. All electronics are just behind front tranny and just a little lower than the chassis itself.

Still to go:

- CF uppers
- Ti rear shaft
- new body & skins
- new rims, either the current ones, a CF set or the 6 Bolt after I lighten them more (they are at >13g right now)
- narrowed voodoo's and foams
- Alu balls in links
- Remove some front weight, after a few packs I'll decide how much if any.
- rear motor saver
- need a castle link to setup drag on the br mini's

Currently about an inch too long, no binding in suspension, just too long. Also I cant find my damn 2 sided tape. Need to get rid of some of this damn velcro!

[Morbid Angel]

^^ Rear motor wires are running in a dumb spot, oops, will have them tucked inside chassis plates later. For now I just wanna go drive this thing!

Rear DS tire is floating off the ground a bit, this is shock limit, only about 20mm of play or less.



A shot of the skid I made

[Morbid Angel]

Any comments or suggestions welcome as usual.

[Morbid Angel]

Removed some knuckle weights, sitting @ 1660g now.

I started the rebuild at 5# 12oz or 2608.g so thats a total weight savings of 948g / >2# thus far and she aint over yet.

[Morbid Angel]

took the rig out for a test run with all the weight loss and new gear...

The good:

- Really like these puller 400's!! Lots of power and speed!

The Bad

- Front motor spline is spinning in the pinion. No flat surface for a set screw to seat on the spline on the 400's. Will have to disassemble and grind down.

- Poor traction. I was really hoping for better performance from my voodoo pin cherry popping. Just could not find any decent traction, spinning, spinning, spinning.... Couldnt make a single line I could from my previous set up. This must be due to a few key elements that include:

• Rain earlier today. Everythings still wet. Shouldnt matter that much though.
• Way lighter rig
• Tires are too wide, not enough pressure on the contact patch
• Wheel base is too long, getting hung up on everything and turning radious is shyte

- I had my motors connected wrong @ the receiver, so transmitter dig switch was opposite directions.. Switched the plugs around but only got the back motor to work, front doesnt like the change and is unresponsive. Switched them back and continued the test run.

I'll have to fix the pinion issue front and rear. Kinda wish I had something else to do in there while I have them apart but my Ti shafts havnt arrived yet.

Bend up some new shorter links for the front end.

hurry up and narrow those voodoo's. I'll make a jig so I can get a precise cut on that rubber. I see that Laalaa was narrowing his to 30mm, so I'll go with the tried and true. I really hope I can get these voodoo's to bite like everyone else seems to like or I'll have to try out some rovers or sedona's. If they dont work It'll be back to the Grabbers for sure, those tires havnt failed me yet.

better luck next time

[Curcal]

What foams are you running in the voodoos. Foam setup is uber important

[FLOKI-81]

how is the shocks with 1000WT oil??
I have seen DD with thicker oil than that,, The shocks is almost laying so the thicker the oil is better...
Great looking build thoug!!!

[Morbid Angel]

Originally Posted by Curcal

What foams are you running in the voodoos. Foam setup is uber important

They currently have CI Double Deuce, soft outer fronts medium outer rears. I got them second hand so not sure if the inner core is "comp cut" or not. We will see today, Im going to boil the tires off the rims (I hope), narrow the rubber and foams and re mount.

I have a a spare brand new set of CI DD foams as well but the comp cut inners.

It MUST just be the weight of the rig. Theres no way that the voodoos are that sharty. Or maybe they just arent for my kind of terrain here..?? We will see after I shorten the wheel base, narrow them, play with the front weight and have more time putting rubber to the ground.

Originally Posted by FLOKI-81

how is the shocks with 1000WT oil??
I have seen DD with thicker oil than that,, The shocks is almost laying so the thicker the oil is better...
Great looking build thoug!!!

The shock weight to me seems perfect but I havnt much time running with the new set up.

I have been playing with shock oils for awhile, at first I was using 30wt and 35wt with the 2 hole piston. That oils was just too thin for my heavier rig at the time, and when I tried again with the light weight it still seemed too thin.
I tried running alternative oils for awhile too (olive, canola, corn, etc) because Ive blown my shock before on the rocks at the ocean and stuff where I felt like a HUGE douche bag for contaminating.... But they are too hard to get dialled in without some sort of testing parameters.
They 1000 oil is just right for me though, thats my bowl of porridge buddy!
Also I think thats what Yoshi was using on his DD rig. Its just a good oil!

On another note my family lineage is from Norway and I cant wait to get over there! Would love to see some footage of yours Floki. I like watching Samu Sarkas stuff too. Me and my wife are in love with Finland!

\m/ \m/

Thanks for the comments guys! Lots of work yet I think. Not as interesting a thread as some of these guys who are place holders at Worlds or overseas comps but for average joe doin the best with what hes got and having fun, not bad.

[Morbid Angel]

[IMG]
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
naked rear link

rear upper link w/ steel balls, (I have no aluminum balls available right meow)

front upper naked

[Morbid Angel]

Narrowed tyres! First time

Voodoo Pins


Worlds first narrowed and shaved HPI Rock Grabbers??


The grabbers where WAY harder to do