GM killing off an iconic division

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

If you look at Toyota, (camry, corrola, prius, highlander, Rav4, Tundra, and Tacoma. I think thats all) Toyota is their regualr brand, Lexus (I'm not even sure of their linup) as their luxury brand, and scion (Xa Xb, TC) as their bargain brand.

Toyota US market-
Camry, Camry Hybrid, Corolla, Avalon, FJ Cruiser, Highlander, Highlander Hybrid, Land Cruiser, Matrix, Prius, Rav4, Sequoia, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra, Venza, Yaris.

Solora ended in 2008. There are so many other models that have ended over the years that it's silly.

Scion-
TC, xB, xD

xA ended in 2006. Scion isn't labeled as their "bargin" brand. It's setup for the younger crowd("tuner crowd") that like to add goodies to their car to make it their own. We've setup many Scions that sold in the $20-30K range, those are the folks that are a bit nuts IMO.

Then Toyota also has Hino which is their large truck line. Then they have the Lexus lineup.

[microgoat]

Originally Posted by TOYUTAH

dont forgt jaguar too ;)

They sold off Jag to Tata Motors of India

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

Along with the Aztek

I want some of whatever they piped into the boardroom the day that turd got approved.

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Though Buick does sell somewhat amazingly in Japan and China for some unknown reason.

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

I don't know why in Japan, but I had a coworker travel to China 2 years ago and told me the Buick story. China got all of the outdated Buick tooling and used it to make a bunch of cars, many of which are used as taxi's. He said just about every Buick Taxi he rode in he could literally hear parts falling off the car as it drove down the street.

China has a long memory. David Dunbar Buick toured China with one of his cars nearly 100 years ago, and the car handled the terrain quite well. The Chinese were impressed. Fast-forward 90 years to where Chinese can actually buy cars, and they all want Buicks. Face it, even a Buick is an upgrade from a 60-pound bicycle.

The Buicks sold in China are re-badged Holdens.

Platform-sharing goes back to the immediate postwar era. In 1946, carmakers warmed over their 1942 lineup and sold every one they could build. Returning GI's had money to spend, and civilians all had to replace their worn-out prewar heapsters. GM, Ford, even Studebaker, could do no wrong.

They failed to learn from VW, and 20 years later, Toyota and Datsun. They never updated their 1946 business plan.

It's a shame to lose Pontiac, but let's face it, Pontiac has been dead for a long time. It just hasn't fallen down yet.

[soundcolor]

Lets look at which companies own what, and what they used to own, and when they sold it. Its gets confusing so keep up.

BMW owns:
-BMW
-Mini
-Rolls Royce
Chrysler owns:
-AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
-Chrysler
-Dodge
-Eagle (brand discontinued)
-Jeep
-Plymouth (brand discontinued)
Daimler/Benz owns:
-Chrysler (sold)
-Maybach
-Mercedes-Benz
-Smart
Fiat owns:
-Alfa Romeo
-Ferrari
-Fiat
-Lancia
-Maserati
Ford owns:
-Aston Martin (sold)
-Ford
-Jaguar (sold)
-Land Rover (Sold)
-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford recently sold of controlling intrest of Mazda tho still retains a small intrest)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars
Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
-Subaru
General Motors owns:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
-Fiat ( Fiat bought out bought out GM witch money gianed from its merger with Ferrari.)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer (trying to sell, will close if buyer is not found)
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Opel
-Pontiac (brand dicontinued)
-Saab (trying to sell, will close if a buyer is not found)
-Saturn (trying to sell, will close if buyer is not found)
-Suzuki (sold off remaining 2.5% after selling down from 25%)
-Vauxhall
Honda owns:
-Acura
-Honda
Hyundai owns:
-Hyundai
-Kia
Isuzu owns:
-Isuzu
(Mitsubishi Corp., Itochu Corp. and Mizuho Corporate Bank owns part of Isuzu.)
Mitsubishi Corp. owns:
-Isuzu (13.6%)
-Mitsubishi Motors Corp (13%)
Nissan owns:
-Infiniti
-Nissan
-Renault (Nissan owns 15%)
PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
-Citroen
-Peugeot
Porsche owns:
-Porsche
-VW (~31%)
Renault owns:
-Nissan (Renault owns 44%)
Toyota owns:
-Daihatsu (~51%)
-Fuji Heavy Industries -- Subaru (Toyota owns ~20%. Toyota bought this from GM in late 2005. )
-Isuzu (5.9%, announced 7 Nov. 2006)
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota
Volkswagen owns:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen
Porsche owns is now the parent company of Volkswagen.

Hope that clears things up

[JasonInAugusta]

...and Fiat may be getting 20+% of Chrysler.

[soundcolor]

unless chrysler gets another 9 billion in federal loans by the end of this week, then fiat is out.

[860Crawler]

Rebadge the G8 as an Impala or Chevelle and get rid of the joke of Impala currently available.
Please don't call it a Lumina as the pic title states




Or rebadge it as a Buick GNX
Buick won't be going anywhere soon, they've got a foothold in China.

And when they eventually dump Saturn, they can rebadge the Sky into a Chevy. Something for the people that wanted a Corvette but could only afford a little 4 banger yet is still sporty.

[JasonInAugusta]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama aims to announce tomorrow that Chrysler LLC will be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, leading to an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, people involved in the matter said.

Administration officials are still resolving outstanding issues, and the plan isn’t finished yet, said one of the people, who declined to be named because discussions are private.

As part of ongoing negotiations, the U.S. Treasury raised its offer to Chrysler’s lenders, offering them $2.25 billion in cash to forgive $6.9 billion in secured debt, two other people familiar with the matter said. The previous offer had been for $2 billion in cash.

Any bankruptcy filing could come as soon as tomorrow, people familiar with that matter said.

I guess this is something the CEO or CFO of Chrysler is incapable of doing.

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by JasonInAugusta

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama aims to announce tomorrow that Chrysler LLC will be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, leading to an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, people involved in the matter said.

Administration officials are still resolving outstanding issues, and the plan isn’t finished yet, said one of the people, who declined to be named because discussions are private.

As part of ongoing negotiations, the U.S. Treasury raised its offer to Chrysler’s lenders, offering them $2.25 billion in cash to forgive $6.9 billion in secured debt, two other people familiar with the matter said. The previous offer had been for $2 billion in cash.

Any bankruptcy filing could come as soon as tomorrow, people familiar with that matter said.

I guess this is something the CEO or CFO of Chrysler is incapable of doing.

the only good thing about chrysler is the cummins dodge.

the only good thing about gm is ???

the only good thing about any other car manufacturers.. also??

[thatguy]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

Cheers

im gay, im not the one wanting a man to suck me.no spaces if from sending text mesg.spaces cost money.yes my mother is very proud.how about yours?how many jobs have you had that the boss wants to give you a promo. less than a month after starting?the problems with gm isnt the cars its to many light bulbs.light bulbs=useless overhead.its hard to make money when the paperwork goes to this guy who retypes it then hands it to that guy,who does the same thing before it gets to the man.most plants have dozens of copyers who make 75 to 100 grand a year. thats whats killing them.

[soundcolor]

God, I hope I can break this up so I can reply to this... its gonna be hard when there arent any spaces in between the sentences....

Here we go.

Originally Posted by thatguy

im gay,
yes
im not the one wanting a man to suck me.
yes you are.
no spaces if from sending text mesg.spaces cost money.
typing on the computer is free.
yes my mother is very proud.
Thats great man, want a cookie...
how about yours?
I think so, but you'd have to ask her...
how many jobs have you had that the boss wants to give you a promo. less than a month after starting?
Pretty easy to advance at McDonalds is it? And apparently you aren't making that much cause you cant afford unlimited texts.. what is it, 9 bucks a month.
the problems with gm isnt the cars its to many light bulbs.
Light bulbs... where did that come from? If you are talking about the lights in the factory, and in the offices then ummmm, you should know that OSHA has certain requirments for lighting. And unless you follow those guidlines you wont be running anything in that factory or office. How do I know... I am a union journeyman electrician, I recently did the remodel in the GM springhill plant. Once we had done the work GM requested, OSHA walked through with their light meter, and made GM put up about 1600 more lights.
light bulbs=useless overhead.
Yeah, who needs to see what there doing
its hard to make money when the paperwork goes to this guy who retypes it then hands it to that guy,who does the same thing before it gets to the man.
Damn the MAN, Fight the power... No, seriously GM's stupid buracracy is the reason they are in this situation to begin with. They wont get out of their own damn way and streamline anything... They stupid.
most plants have dozens of copyers who make 75 to 100 grand a year. thats whats killing them.
Ummm, no they dont, most plants have a copy center in them that is outsourced to a company like kinkos, or IKON. They pay them to send people in to make the copies for them. How do I know, when I was 18 I worked for IKON for about a year. I wasnt at the GM plant. But I knew alot of people that were, and ya know what the copy people made... 8.75 and hour. GM paid about 10.00 and hour for them. Right now whats killing them is the stupid amounts of benifits they pay out, and the crappy cars that compete with themselves, and damn, just read this thread, GM's problems have already been listed... just read.

Dude, you really need to calm down. The only reason I said you were gay is cause you popped off to me. There was no need in that shit. If you have a problem and you dont handle it like an adult, dont expect others to.

Later

[Mr.Slave]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

The only reason I said you were gay is cause you popped off to me. There was no need in that shit. If you have a problem and you dont handle it like an adult, dont expect others to.

Later

now there's some irony.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by 860Crawler

And when they eventually dump Saturn, they can rebadge the Sky into a Chevy. Something for the people that wanted a Corvette but could only afford a little 4 banger yet is still sporty.

The Solstice and Sky are done in 2009 (some 09 models will likely be called 10's though). There are no plans to continue the Opel Roadster line in the US.

[soundcolor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Slave

now there's some irony.

Judas preist man, Judas preist. That comment there about killed me...

I'm going to bed.

[Tupers]

Originally Posted by soundcolor

I'm going to bed.

With a man or a woman??

[TheHeadHunter]

Originally Posted by Skeeno

Isn't the G8 a rebadged OPEL?

And yes, when I think of Pontiac, I think of fugly body kits and cheap plastic interiors.

Its actually a direct rip-off of the first Holden Monaro body styling wise ...I remember when this happened (2001-2002 roughly) Holden-Monaro designers and fans were furious

I thought it was a poor design to begin with ,just knowing the Holden V8 models prior to that

The original GTO was a standard setter ...new one big disappointment IMO

[thatguy]

ill explain it to you, lightbulbs is slang for people who jobs can be done by other people with out any more work.as in i can give my paper work to the man as easy as they can.copyers are the people who just retype you info into the paper work they turn in. its another name for a lightbulb. ive never worked in any resturant.i do have unlimited text but not every body does.some of the hoes i text have no/small text plan.every space cost the owners of this site money.the only thing ive found that is free is air.most people think the problem with gm is the number of cars they make that are slightly diff.its not its the unneccessary white coller work force they pay.yes i am gay in the adjective form, not the noun.as in happy,lively,brillant.

[cuzican]

Originally Posted by Skeeno

I thought I was going to get flame by fanboys telling me how great the Transvan, GrandAm, and GrandPrix were, but I see that most of us agree that they were all terrible cars.

I have to admit that I do like the late 90's trans am ws6 cars....but my wife and I have had 3 grand ams (don't ask...she loves those stupid things) and they have all been crappy, head gasket blowing, electric window motor burning, intake manifold gasket leaking pieces of junk.

Other than that my pontiac experience is limited...drove a G6 once and it just felt like a cheapo.

[BigBaller]

Originally Posted by thatguy

i do have unlimited text but not every body does.

Really? THEN USE IT ASSHOLE! Your posts are completely annoying and should just be deleted. Give your mom her cell phone back and go play in the street.


Pontiac SUCKS. I'm ashamed to say I have owned 4. NONE was worth a crap...and the last was an 04' GTO. I fought with GM for 10 months, and got help from the Better Business Bureau to force GM to buy it back. Long story...defective paint.

FAWK Pontiac! DIE!!!

[thatguy]

Originally Posted by BigBaller

Really? THEN USE IT ASSHOLE! Your posts are completely annoying and should just be deleted.

if you dont like them then hit the ignore option and dont read them. do you need someone to tell you to move cause a cars comming? yes i am and can be a asshole. most people cant take being told how it is. not the way they see it. let me guess you bought 3 grand ams ,or sunfires.then didnt do the repairs when called for ie timing belt. then bought a holden rebadged as a gm. all of the big three have had paint problems since going to water based paints with clearcoat. the problems come up when the temp. changes more than 15 to 20 degrees. this makes the paint act weird. the mix needs to be adjusted. the diff. in temp makes the paint dry before it sticks to the car. are you happy i went back and put the spaces in to make it easy to read?

[microgoat]

Let me guess, they charge extra for capital letters, too?