WTF ....250K = Corporate Jet?????

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You've got that right!

Its interesting to note that the big spenders play both parties pretty equally.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Hopefully, after today, they learned their lesson....

I hadn't heard...what the scoop Jimmy?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Here's how the finance lobbyists spent their money...

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...12&goButt2.y=9

And here's how the oil/gas lobbyists spent their money...

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...12&goButt2.y=6


Yup. Lots of money for the liberals there.

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Lots of liberals in the banking industry, eh?

Apparently so, former Goldman Sachs employees hold numerous key rolls in this Administration. They were in fact Barry's biggest contributor.

If you include the bailouts in the "government spending" you speak of, then I would agree with you. However, trickle down economics is NOT a liberal idea.

I include the bailout and spending as no corporation(s) can spend like that and continue to exist!

The Left believe in redistribution of wealth from the earners to the takers. Misery for all... except for the Liberal elite.

I'm watching it on youtube. No commercials, no commentary, no crazy conservative extremists raving about the anti-chist.

What about the crazy Liberal extremist that make up the vast majority of the main stream media now. Broadcast, Cable, Hollywood, Newspapers, Magazines, etc... are slanted heavily to the Left. One reason Fox, the Internet blogosphere, and AM radio are so successful is that this IS a right leaning, conservative, Christian, Nation regardless of weather the Godless left believes it or not.

Seeing as how nothing specific has been lined out, its all speculation at this point. If you watch long enough, Barry mentions something about helping small businesses grow while imposing smaller tax cuts for big business.

Nothing but soundbites! Barry can try to spin it, but his tax increase proposals based on those earning $250,000.00 tell me all I need to know

Yup.

Its own currency? Not as long as the Fed is around. We've tried to make our own money a couple of times now, and got beat down at every turn by the World Bank. I wish we could though...

Only the Federal Government can print money. Barry's been doing in for 3 years driving down the value of our currency.

By "rampant" I mean those who work to profit by any means necessary while ignoring local, regional, and national impact. Ethics is not in their playbook. Goldman Sachs is an example...as is BofA...

Please refer to the earlier example in regards to Goldman Sachs

Other than out of control Federal Spending, the housing bubble was one of the largest contributors to the mess we are now in. It was Liberal idots in Congress messing w/ things they had no business messing with forcing banks to loan to people who had no business getting those loans that caused the problem. While banks are not innocent in any way, had they not have been but into the situation they were by the Government, I think think the problem would have existed, or at least been much less severe.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I hadn't heard...what the scoop Jimmy?

This was completed today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/bu...gage.html?_r=1

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm watching it now. No mention of targeting small business owners. When I hear "millionaires, billionaires, and corporate jet owners" I don't think "Billy Bob's Auto Repair Shop".

Thats the problem...in his speeches he talks about one thing to get people behind him, and then puts forth plans starting at 250K. Thats where the disconnect happens for me.

Obama speeches are always filled with some sort of rhetoric, and what he actually tries to sneak through is another.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by dezfan

Apparently so, former Goldman Sachs employees hold numerous key rolls in this Administration. They were in fact Barry's biggest contributor.

And W had some people from Citicorp in his administration. Whats new?

In 2008 his biggest contributor was the University of California. What year or year range are we talking about here and I'll look it up...

Originally Posted by dezfan

I include the bailout and spending as no corporation(s) can spend like that and continue to exist!

Sure they can, and many still do. Only problem is, who will bail us out?

Originally Posted by dezfan

The Left believe in redistribution of wealth from the earners to the takers. Misery for all... except for the Liberal elite.

Wouldn't the liberal elite also fall in with everyone else who will be taxed at a greater rate? Other than bragging rights and some "nanny nanny boo boo" 's, I don't see how that would be much of an advantage for them...

Money distribution in this country is very, very, very lopsided. When the top 1% hold 1/3 of the nations wealth, somethings gotta give. Adding another percentage point to their taxes won't come close to making them flinch, yet frees up a shit ton of cash.

Originally Posted by dezfan

What about the crazy Liberal extremist that make up the vast majority of the main stream media now. Broadcast, Cable, Hollywood, Newspapers, Magazines, etc... are slanted heavily to the Left. One reason Fox, the Internet blogosphere, and AM radio are so successful is that this IS a right leaning, conservative, Christian, Nation regardless of weather the Godless left believes it or not.

Thats why I don't watch broadcast news or read political stories in the paper. EVERYTHING in the media is opinion based editorials, slanted the way they want them slanted. Fox is popular because they've managed to scare the shit out of people too dumb or lazy to do their own footwork. Did you know the guy that owns and runs Fox and its affiliates isn't even an American?

And how do you figure that the left is "Godless"? Did someone give you a free ride to Bigot City today?

Originally Posted by dezfan

Nothing but soundbites! Barry can try to spin it, but his tax increase proposals based on those earning $250,000.00 tell me all I need to know

Not soundbites, the entire hour and seven minute long conference. It starts with him walking up to the podium and ends with him saying "thanks".

Show me his proposal. I'll read it.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Only the Federal Government can print money. Barry's been doing in for 3 years driving down the value of our currency.

Still wrong. The government has to request it from the Federal Reserve (which is not part of our government). We don't print shit other than little pieces of paper saying that we'll pay the Fed back.

Yes, printing money devalues it. But so does artificially raising or lowering its value, along with interest rates on loans, which the Fed does without any consent of our governing parties.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Other than out of control Federal Spending, the housing bubble was one of the largest contributors to the mess we are now in. It was Liberal idots in Congress messing w/ things they had no business messing with forcing banks to loan to people who had no business getting those loans that caused the problem. While banks are not innocent in any way, had they not have been but into the situation they were by the Government, I think think the problem would have existed, or at least been much less severe.

The banking industry got exactly what it wanted. They promised some stuff, didn't hold up their end of the bargain, and screwed us all. There are proceedings going on right now concerning this. Its come to light that a few members lied outright for the sole basis of exploiting our government and our people.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

This was completed today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/bu...gage.html?_r=1

[binaryterror]

Dez, here you are again pointing political fingers at anything not in your party.

Just a newsflash....THEY'RE BOTH CORRUPT. Neither is better than the other.

The republican women at least provide some great humor to us. And for that I salute them.

Palin re-invents Revere's ride
Bachmann thinks John Quincy Adams was a founding father.
Bachmann mixes up John Wayne and John Wayne Gacy...
Bachmann attempts to completely rewrite our history
Bachmann thinks democrats in office leak Swine Flu (she must have forgot the 8 years of Clinton...)

Oddly enough both want to be "TEA" party members. A Party that supports bringing us back to the rules and regulations of the 1800's. They must have forgot, back then no woman would be allowed to run for office, let alone cast a vote.

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by Dezfan

What about the crazy Liberal extremist that make up the vast majority of the main stream media now. Broadcast, Cable, Hollywood, Newspapers, Magazines, etc... are slanted heavily to the Left. One reason Fox, the Internet blogosphere, and AM radio are so successful is that this IS a right leaning, conservative, Christian, Nation regardless of weather the Godless left believes it or not.

Fox news? Really...

Time to invest some time reading. Their facts are proven wrong consistently.

It's sad when a comedian promotes both sides, yet still is more accurate than Fox news when it comes to actually informing the public with accurate information.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_879964.html

[dezfan]

I had a long ass responce and axcidently deleted it.

I really don't have the energy to re-type it.

I will say that I find your Fox viewer remark as ignorant(to dumb) and lazy and then using the Bigot City remark hypocritical.

For someone who claims the Independent center position, you sure do seem to carry a lot of water for the Left?

[dezfan]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

Fox news? Really...

Time to invest some time reading. Their facts are proven wrong consistently.

It's sad when a comedian promotes both sides, yet still is more accurate than Fox news when it comes to actually informing the public with accurate information.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_879964.html

Really, the Huff and Puff Post as a reference for accuracy.

[TexasSP]

Binary, you say they're both corrupt and try to act middle of the road, yet you always come at this with extreme left wing talking points, websites, and other sources.

Seriously, quit trying to convince us you're not left wing. It's so freaking obvious you might as well have a big blinking sign over your head the says "I am a hardcore left wing liberal". At least dez admits where he's coming from.

As far as political gaffs go, every politician has made them. Let us not forget how many your lord Barry has made.

Must you also forget that ALL of the major news outlets have been busted with incorrect facts time and time again.

All of you can try and hide from the facts of the product and continue to believe all the pretty talk, but the big O plans to raise taxes on EVERYONE. If you can't understand how this will affect all income earners you need to go back to school. Our stupid ass government needs to get on a budget that fits within it's means. If it can't be paid for it HAS to be cut. This is the way it works for households and businesses. You cannot spend your way out of debt. I don't give a rats ass who is spending the money be they R or D, it has to stop. We all know Bush screwed the pooch on many different items, however, it does not excuse Obama to make it 20 times worse. All his BS got him elected but it's proven the emperor's new clothes are not what they seem.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by dezfan

I will say that I find your Fox viewer remark as ignorant(to dumb) and lazy and then using the Bigot City remark hypocritical.

For someone who claims the Independent center position, you sure do seem to carry a lot of water for the Left?

Not at all hypocritical. I have my views and opinions, as does everyone, but you show me another side and I will research it, consider it, try to understand it, mix it in with what I know and see what comes of it.

I carry water where I think it needs to be carried. Comments were made that Barry is gonna kill the small businessmen. I took an hour out of my day and listened/watched his news conference and did not hear that at all. I asked for something specific where he stated that everyone making $250k and up were going to take it in the ass. Nobody has produced anything. I'm still waiting.

You and I both agree that our government (both parties) is rife with corruption. I still believe that, and I know you do to. For you to sling shit at the opposition when you know damn good and well that the party you affiliate yourself with is just as guilty is insanity. I think you are the one that needs to turn the channel, or better yet, turn it off. Its clearly rotting your brain.


ps

I still love you.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

We all know Bush screwed the pooch on many different items, however, it does not excuse Obama to make it 20 times worse. All his BS got him elected but it's proven the emperor's new clothes are not what they seem.

Things were in motion well before Obama took office. He took the wheel of a bus that was already halfway down the cliff. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just sayin'.

Did he make things better? No. Not really.

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Seriously, quit trying to convince us you're not left wing.

I've always thought of him as a contrarian. Dezfan is just the better half of the relationship.

Ideological hacks thinking of themselves as fearless, independent thinkers, while never challenging (in fact reinforcing) the status quo.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Since no one can (or won't) give me an example, I found a little tidbit on Obama's plan to raise the taxes for the $250k plus crowd. This is from about 2 years ago...if the percentages are wrong, let me know and we'll sort it out.

Let's take a family that makes $300,000:

The first 250K is taxed at 68,250 and the remaining 50K is taxed at 33% (You don't hit the 35% tax bracket until you make over 357,700), so you pay 16,500 in taxes on that last 50K for a total of $84,750 (federal taxes), which leaves you with $215,250 after-tax dollars.

Now after the Obama tax increase, you will still pay 68,250 on your first 250K and the last 50K is now taxed at 36% or an additional $18,000, for a total tax liability of 86,250.

So a family making 300,000 will now have $213,750 after-(federal)tax income instead of 215,250 (roughly 1% less). But if you make "only" $260,000 then your tax hike will be a whopping $300.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Here are the current Federal tax rates...

[Duuuuuuuude]

Again, someone show me how the small business owners who pull in more than $250k are getting screwed and are going to lose everything they have worked so hard to acheive...


...and so we are all on the same page, at what dollar amount are you not considered to be a small business owner? $400k? $500k? $1m?

[dezfan]

Here you go, from the US Chamber of Congress.


The Facts:

Small business owners—including taxpayers earning more than $250,000 (married) and $200,000 (single)—would see their taxes increase by more than $1 trillion over 10 years under President Obama’s FY12 budget proposal. The administration’s plan would:

Reinstate the 36% and 39.6% individual income tax rates.

Reinstate the personal exemption phaseout and limitations on itemized deductions.

Impose a 20% rate on capital gains and dividends.

Limit the tax rate at which itemized deductions reduce tax liability.

Extend the estate, gift and generation-skipping transfer taxes at their 2009 levels (i.e., $3.5 million exemption and top rate of 45%).

In addition to tax increases on small business, the Obama budget proposes almost another half trillion over 10 years of new taxes on American businesses.

This includes $129 billion over 10 years on American companies operating globally by changing the deferral regime and the foreign tax credit rules, both of which currently keep American companies competitive in the face of double taxation.

Businesses would face tax increases from, for example, the repeal of the last-in, first-out (LIFO) accounting method and punitive taxes on the oil and gas and coal industries.

Regardless, tax increases are not the answer! We can't tax enough to cover what the Government is spending!

Using the latest statistics from the IRS, in 2004 there were 2.7 million adults with a net worth above $1.5 million. If the government were to seize all the wealth above the $1.5 million threshold, Washington would realize a one-time windfall of $4.0 Trillion.

No one would again attempt to accumulate wealth. Assuming it was applied to the national debt (unlikely with the Left in charge as they would spend it) the national debt would only be reduced from $14.5 Trillion to "only" $10.0 Trillion.

Assuming Barry & Company decide that $200,000.00 per year is sufficient for any household, then in 2008 (the latest IRS statistics) the 6.9 million filers that had adjusted gross income above $200,000.00 would have forfeited all their income above that ceiling to the government.

The one-time gain to Washington D.C.: $221.0 Billion; but in the future no one would work long enough to earn more than $200,000.00 per year. Tax revenues in subsequent years would never increase unless tax rates are raised which are self-defeating and historically results in even lower tax receipts.

The long-term impact on the economy and the country would mirror that of the failed socialist nations throughout history.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by dezfan

Here you go, from the US Chamber of Congress.

The what?

Originally Posted by dezfan

Small business owners—including taxpayers earning more than $250,000 (married) and $200,000 (single)—would see their taxes increase by more than $1 trillion over 10 years under President Obama’s FY12 budget proposal.

Ok. But by what percentage will their earning be additionally taxed? Throwing out a total amount over a period of time means nothing.

Originally Posted by dezfan

The administration’s plan would:

Reinstate the 36% and 39.6% individual income tax rates.

Ok. I covered that already. People making $250-$300k will be paying out another 1% in taxes, or roughly $1500 a year at worst.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Reinstate the personal exemption phaseout and limitations on itemized deductions.

Impose a 20% rate on capital gains and dividends.

That rate was dropped to 15% in 2003, and was due to expire as recently as 2010. Obama extended it until 2012.

Originally Posted by dezfan

In addition to tax increases on small business, the Obama budget proposes almost another half trillion over 10 years of new taxes on American businesses.

Again, another scary arbitrary number and a period of time.

Originally Posted by dezfan

This includes $129 billion over 10 years on American companies operating globally by changing the deferral regime and the foreign tax credit rules, both of which currently keep American companies competitive in the face of double taxation.

Originally Posted by dezfan

punitive taxes on the oil and gas and coal industries.

When they make billions and billions in profit each year and do nothing with it or send it out-of-country, they should be taxed. You can't trickle down when there is no trickle.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Regardless, tax increases are not the answer! We can't tax enough to cover what the Government is spending!

Agreed.

Originally Posted by dezfan

Using the latest statistics from the IRS, in 2004 there were 2.7 million adults with a net worth above $1.5 million. If the government were to seize all the wealth above the $1.5 million threshold, Washington would realize a one-time windfall of $4.0 Trillion.

Who said anything about "seizing wealth"?

Originally Posted by dezfan

No one would again attempt to accumulate wealth.

What the fawk are you talking about?

Originally Posted by dezfan

Assuming Barry & Company decide that $200,000.00 per year is sufficient for any household, then in 2008 (the latest IRS statistics) the 6.9 million filers that had adjusted gross income above $200,000.00 would have forfeited all their income above that ceiling to the government.

Seriously, you are watching waaaaaaaaay to much Fox News. Show me where to find this information. I want a link.

Originally Posted by dezfan

The one-time gain to Washington D.C.: $221.0 Billion; but in the future no one would work long enough to earn more than $200,000.00 per year. Tax revenues in subsequent years would never increase unless tax rates are raised which are self-defeating and historically results in even lower tax receipts.

You've flipped your lid.

Originally Posted by dezfan

The long-term impact on the economy and the country would mirror that of the failed socialist nations throughout history.

I don't think you'd feel that impact at all since you are no longer in this reality.