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Thread: Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

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Old 11-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #1
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Default Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

I'll refine this as time goes.

Choosing a Motor and ESC

The most common question asked in the Wraith section seems to be “What motor should I run”. I can see why people don’t know what motor to chose, it is a multi-level problem to solve. While those questions will never stop hopefully we can cut some of them down by adding this reference.

To make a long story short, for more detailed info read the following posts:

Good speed and OK crawling: Tekin 13.5 Redline (or Tekin Pro 4 3300) and Castle Mamba Max Pro – Faster than stock 20t motor and fairly smooth low end. Not a good choice for water or mud.

Good crawling and OK speed: Holmes Crawlmaster 13t and Holmes BRXL – OK for water and mud as long as you get the waterproof ESC and keep your motor maintained.

Best for crawling and low speed: Holmes 35t TorqueMaster Pro and Holmes BRXL – Smooth crawling with enough wheel speed to get up hills.

Last edited by Harley; 03-19-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #2
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Default Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith

“I want more speed than stock but still want to be able to crawl”

And I want a million dollars… Ok it’s not that far of a reach but having everything isn’t easy. The problem is that if you want more speed you are going to sacrifice things. Brushed motors will not last as long and will require maintenance but will have the best low end for crawling.* Brushless (must be sensored) will require very little maintenance but are more expensive and are not a good idea if you want to play in water and mud.

Do you plan on playing in water and mud?

If Yes- then brushed is your safest bet. Brushless can be made to play in the mud and water but you run the risk of damaging it. The faster the brushed motor you chose the faster you are going to burn it up in the rocks. If you want to still be able to crawl then you are not going to be able to get much faster than stock, that is something you have to deal with.

Best Choice: Holmes 13t Crawlmaster (5 slot motor which is similar to a 27t traditional 3 slot motor)

Middle Budget Choice:* Holmes TorqueMaster Expert 540 27t

Budget Choice: Holmes Sport 540 27t

*

If No - Then brushless is going to give you better results for speed and with the right setup can still crawl OK. If you want any crawling control you must use a sensored brushless system. It can give you good low speed control but still hit the higher speeds. There aren’t many “reliable” budget options without chancing it on a Hong Kong brand system, and I can’t personally recommend doing that.

Good Choices for ESC’s: Mamba Max Pro and Tekin RS Pro

Good Choices for Motor’s: Tekin 13.5 Redline, Tekin Pro 4 3300

Last edited by Harley; 11-04-2011 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:28 PM   #3
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Pure Crawling Performance

This is a much easier choice than the others. If you want the best crawling performance you need to stay with a brushed motor. It is important that you look into re-gearing your crawler, the stock gearing is very high and could cause motor failure when in the rocks. Even though it’s crawling you still do need wheel speed at times though. My suggestions:

Best Choice: Holmes 16t Crawlmaster (5 slot motor which is similar to a 27t traditional 3 slot motor)

Middle Budget Choice: *Holmes TorqueMaster Expert 540 35t

Budget Choice: Holmes Sport 540 35t

*

Pure Speed

Just bolt in the fastest brushless you can find and watch the trail of parts fall out behind you…
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:28 PM   #4
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GEARING!

Ok, I've answered the "what gearing for my xxxxx setup" question about 346 times too many. It's time to try and cover it as best I can here. *However the issue is that it goes hand in hand with motor choice, so this could get windy. These are all just starting points and there are hundreds or thousands of combinations. This is just a quick reference to get new people started in the right direction.

First off, when I refer to numbers in the format similar to "80/20", this means 80 tooth spur/20 tooth pinion. So, 84/14 would mean 84t spur/14t pinion, clear?



Are you running a stock motor? Short story, 84/16

If so then your gearing choices are limited but should be handled immediately if you are running the RTR. The stock gearing 80/20 (4:1 ratio) is too high of a ratio for the stock motor. The stock motor will not last you long anyway but if you want to extend it's life you need to regear, NOW. You are going to lose speed, there is just no way around it, I would suggest an 84/16 (5.25:1 ratio) setup.



Are you running a little higher speed brushed or brushless (Examples: 13t CrawlMaster, 27t TorqueMaster, 13.5 Redline)? Short Story, 56/12 32p (brushed) 56/14 32p (brushless) (note from Holmes- 56/12 has caused problems with brushed motors, we recommend 56/10 or 84/16)

Did you read the post #2? If you are running something I suggested (or similar to that) then the stock gear ratio is probably fine for you. The problem is that the little 48 pitch gears can't hold the power, you need to upgrade to 32 pitch gears. The stock ratio of 4:1 is fine, so you just need to equivalent in 32p. 56/14 is the same ratio. You can still run the stock spur cover with this setup as well. If you want a little more strength and tooth contact area you can go to 60/15 but the stock spur cover is likely a no go. Also with the 60/15 setup some motors require you to do a little filing on the motor plate to slide the motor over further. If you are running/wanting a Tekin Pro4 (or similar high power brushless) then see the last section.



Are you running something for mostly trails and crawling (example, 35t Torqemaster)? Short Story, 84/18

If you changed out your motor to something with a little more low end control and power then you likely could benefit from a better gear ratio. This isn't a must for a setup in this range however. The stock ratio is OK, but just not ideal in my opinion for someone who is looking to spend most of their time going slow. I do still feel that even if you're a rock crawler only that you will benefit from some wheel speed. I would suggest that if you do change gearing you start with an 84/18 setup.



Are you running a Tekin Pro4 (or similar high power brushless)? Short story. just read the rest of it!

If so then you likely need to build everything as strong as possible. I have gone this route personally. My suggestion is the 56t Gen3 metal spur and slipper setup from Robinson racing. To run this setup you will also need to buy a Traxxas slipper rebuild kit, all you will use from this kit is a black spring and a lock nut though. The next thing you need to buy is the Beefy top shaft from v84x4 here on RCC. I will include a link shortly. With the Pro4 you also must buy a pinion that has a 5mm bore and is hardened steel so that it wears more slowly against the steel spur gear, a 14t pinion is my suggestion. The Pro4 is very high power and you will likely spend the rest of your money replacing things in the truck since it was never meant to have something like this bolted into it!


That is my best first shot at handling this question. I'll come back and edit as required.

Last edited by JohnRobHolmes; 03-26-2015 at 09:56 AM. Reason: gearing
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:34 PM   #5
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Good info
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:34 PM   #6
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Great reccomendations Harley.

I just switched from insanse 4s brushless power to a more moderate 3s brushed setup.

Axial Ae-2 esc
CC 10a BEC
Holmes 27t sport
7954sh Servo

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Old 11-04-2011, 01:37 PM   #7
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I'll get this formatted better when I get home. I'm posting from my iPhone now is why. I'll make it much easier to read and separate it into smaller posts. That way we can easily link the people that don't read here first!
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #8
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well Harley, i get mine tomorrow, and just want a mild trail mudder . what would you suggest ? will be stock for a while as christmas is coming..............
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:10 PM   #9
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Default Just my 2 cents

I have the Holmes Sport 540 35t with a 12t pinion stock spur. I had to slot the motor plat an i also added some small spacers between the motor plat an motor so the motor would slide over just a little more. I had the same set up but with a 15t pinion an i just needed a little more i found the 12t to be perfect for crawling. I also locked out my sliper clutch,Robbinson Racing tranny gears,MIP drivelines an geared down the rear axle.

I did run in to a little stumper the first thing i did was put a new servo in my rig so i could build a servo winch out of the stock servo. Its all set up i just dont know where to mount it. I serched to see what people are doing an iv only seen a hand full of Wraiths with winchs. Any one got any ideas?

Thanks for reading sorry for the spelling
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazee horse View Post
well Harley, i get mine tomorrow, and just want a mild trail mudder . what would you suggest ? will be stock for a while as christmas is coming..............
Trail running, go with the 13t CM or one of the 27t setups. That's mainly what mine is.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:10 PM   #11
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Default 13t crawlmaster

i went with the 13t cm and the 5th battery over a couple weeks it went up in smoke it was only the first pack of the day 2 cell 5000 30c 80/20 geared wraith what do u think i need to do was a bad motor or do i go brushless if so 17.5 or 13.5
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James888 View Post
i went with the 13t cm and the 5th battery over a couple weeks it went up in smoke it was only the first pack of the day 2 cell 5000 30c 80/20 geared wraith what do u think i need to do was a bad motor or do i go brushless if so 17.5 or 13.5
I have hours and hours on mine. A fast motor like this you have to drive smart. When in a bind you can't just lay into it or you can smoke it. You can send it in and have it rebuilt. May be the best bet.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:38 PM   #13
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Thanks for doing this post Harley
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:54 PM   #14
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I wish this would have been up when my 20 turn smoked. I went off half cocked and got a Holmes 28 turn crawlmaster which is great for crawling but had no wheel speed to keep my tires clean on the trail.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James888 View Post
i went with the 13t cm and the 5th battery over a couple weeks it went up in smoke it was only the first pack of the day 2 cell 5000 30c 80/20 geared wraith what do u think i need to do was a bad motor or do i go brushless if so 17.5 or 13.5
80/20 seems kinda steep, maybe gear down and watch the temps. A 5000 mah battery provides alot of run time and time for heat to build up.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:45 PM   #16
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This is good info for us beginners. What would be even better is a range of gear ratios that compliment each type of motor.

I have a 16T CM and BRXL on order with HH (he's out of stock on the 13T) and I've also purchased several spur and pinion combinations that I think will work. It'd be nice to know up front which combination will provide motor longevity.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
This is good info for us beginners. What would be even better is a range of gear ratios that compliment each type of motor.

I have a 16T CM and BRXL on order with HH (he's out of stock on the 13T) and I've also purchased several spur and pinion combinations that I think will work. It'd be nice to know up front which combination will provide motor longevity.
Good call, I'll try and add that.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #18
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I didnt see the Pro4 3,300kv on there. Im a big believer it should be. It fits with no modification and has more power and crawlability then you would ever need.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
I've also purchased several spur and pinion combinations that I think will work. It'd be nice to know up front which combination will provide motor longevity.
What I always do is start low on my gearing and check motor and ESC temps a lot.. Then I up the pinion a couple teeth and run the same trail around my yard and check temps a lot again. I do this till I find a warm setup.. I always want a motor i can hold my finger on for more than 5 seconds after a kill a battery pack. A hot cup of coffee is 140* and you could not hold your finger in it for 5 seconds. This way I'm sure I'm under the 140 mark which is my personal safe point. Saves me carrying my temp gun with me.




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Old 11-04-2011, 09:08 PM   #20
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I second that. The Pro4 is the perfect motor for the Wraith. I pulled my motor apart and coated the sensor with conformal coating and then sealed the can up with clear silicone. I ran it in 5" of water and mud the other day with no problems (also coated the RS Pro). With a 32 pitch 13 tooth pinion and 58 tooth spur it's perfect. On 3s it has amazing low end and will pull wheelies on command with a too speed in the high teens....now if you could just find the motor anywhere.
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