clod stall forever?????

[Nova's Ark]

We have a comp this coming weekend and friend has been having some trouble with his super. So I picked it up last night and brought it home with me in order to install new motors, reprogram both the mamba max's, the CC BEC and program his DX6. This is Hustler Clod super.

I installed new 55 turns with 7 tooth pinions, did all the programming and DX6 mixing and then I took it out in my yard for some testing. Channels 1 & 3 were mixed so the throttle (channel 1) controlled both MM's. On a steep climb the rear motor stalled. Both the MM were blinking the same (meaning they both were receiving the same signal), but the rear had more load and needed more throttle to overcome the stall.

With a DX6 you can overcome clod stall because you have independent control of both ESC's. But if you were using a pistol grip controller or any kind of three channel radio with a y harness to control two ESC's, you cannot. A simple Y harness with two ESC's will not fix clod stall. Both ESC's will receive the same signal and when any motor has a greater load it will stall.

Like Kamikaze explained, they must be independently controlled. When he explained it in post #53 it made total sense, but to actually experience it last when the channels were mixed made it even more clear for me. Give it up people and learn to read and trust some of the veterans. They have way more experience.

[STANG KILLA SS]

ive never had any clod stall.
i didnt wire mine like normal though.
i wired mine with a perfectly symetrical/equal length Y harness, using high quality 12g wire, therefore the resitance along the path to each motor is the same. never had a problem with stall. ever.

i run a TQ3 with a single moped, now with a single rooster crawler esc. never had stall on either setup

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

ive never had any clod stall.
i didnt wire mine like normal though.
i wired mine with a perfectly symetrical/equal length Y harness, using high quality 12g wire, therefore the resitance along the path to each motor is the same. never had a problem with stall. ever.

i run a TQ3 with a single moped, now with a single rooster crawler esc. never had stall on either setup

cough...BS...cough

I guess we all can't be perfect like you.

If that is the case, why do you just now post this revelation of brilliance? How come no one else has come up with your solution in all the years of this forum? It's not posted in the clod section or electronics section until today? The loads on a given motor are different creating the stall. I do not believe you, sorry.

Besides, if your correct, the super I worked on last night would not have stalled when the channels were mixed. Both ESC's were receiving the same signal, same motors, same pinions, same length wire to the motors, same gauge wire, all the variables you mention were covered. It's a load on the motor thing and the only correction to over come the load is increased voltage to the motor under the heavier load. Besides, I will take a national title contenders information (Kamikaze) over someone who has not competed at that level.

[littleskull99]

So basically you cant get rid of clodstall unless you drive it on flat!

But even then the load will be biased to the rear motor.

Matt

PS. correct me if Im wrong.

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by littleskull99

So basically you cant get rid of clodstall unless you drive it on flat!

But even then the load will be biased to the rear motor.

Matt

PS. correct me if Im wrong.

Basically you are correct. If you are driving on flat ground the loads are equal. Certain climbs can produce the same load. Plus keep in mind that an object in motion is easier to keep in motion. So if you attack a climb already in motion you may not experience clod stall because the motor is already in motion. But if it's from a dead stop, you now have to get all that weight in motion particularly when crawling a steep obstacle. Clod stall can be managed, but the only true remedy is dual ESC's under independent control.

My 2.2 Clod is using a single ESC, a Mamba Max with dual Axiom 65 turns. My Clod Super is using dual Mamba Max's with dual Integy 65 turns. My 2.2 stalls, but I have learned to drive it better. I also found that I have better control with my DX6 of the clod stall then I did with my JR XS3i pistol grip. Carrying momentum into a situation where you would normally stall if you crawled it from a dead stop is something that must be learned. You have to anticipate and adapt your driving style (IMO).

[STANG KILLA SS]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

cough...BS...cough

I guess we all can't be perfect like you.

If that is the case, why do you just now post this revelation of brilliance? How come no one else has come up with your solution in all the years of this forum? It's not posted in the clod section or electronics section until today? The loads on a given motor are different creating the stall. I do not believe you, sorry.

Besides, if your correct, the super I worked on last night would not have stalled when the channels were mixed. Both ESC's were receiving the same signal, same motors, same pinions, same length wire to the motors, same gauge wire, all the variables you mention were covered. It's a load on the motor thing and the only correction to over come the load is increased voltage to the motor under the heavier load. Besides, I will take a national title contenders information (Kamikaze) over someone who has not competed at that level.

i didnt post it for two reasons
1. i just saw this thread this morning
2. because its not new and been posted before, i got the idea right here off RCC forum.

thats ok. i dont need you to believe me nor feel the desire to prove myself to anyone
your from texas, come watch my truck. or simply ask anyone that has seen it compete for the last year and a half and ask them if they have ever seen any trace of stall.

[David H]

If you are running 2 esc, each on there own channel. Do they have to be the same esc, or can they be different? In other words I have a Novak super duty now. Could I buy a Rooster and run it as my second esc, if I had a DX6 or equivalent? NO Y HARNESS

[4link4eva]

Yep, that'll work fine. I've been running my Super with an MTroniks RVMax on the front and a Moped on the back ever since i went to twin ESCs.

Cheers, Paul.

[5150rocker]

Can you correct clod by running one set of wires from the esc to the rear motor and then a second set of wires from the rear motor to the front ??
Thanks

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by 5150rocker

Can you correct clod stall by running one set of wires from the esc to the rear motor first and then a second set of wires from the rear motor to the front ??
Thanks

^Fixed it for you^

It will help, but it will not eliminate it. You must understand that each motor is receiving two different loads and the ESC can only accommodate the smaller load based on the amount of throttle you are giving the ESC.

The other problem with wiring the rear motor first, is that most 2.2 guys run a switch to lock the rear motor for dig. If the rear motor is wired for dig and you lock it up for dig, if the motors are wired in series you just killed the front motor as well.

[5150rocker]

I just found this link, what do you guys think ?????????
http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/h...ors/index.html

[Nova's Ark]

Originally Posted by 5150rocker

I just found this link, what do you guys think ?????????
http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/h...ors/index.html

Are you trying to wire up a clod?
What motors are you running?
What ESC do you plan to use?
What type of batteries?
How much voltage?

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

ive never had any clod stall.
i didnt wire mine like normal though.
i wired mine with a perfectly symetrical/equal length Y harness, using high quality 12g wire, therefore the resitance along the path to each motor is the same. never had a problem with stall. ever.

i run a TQ3 with a single moped, now with a single rooster crawler esc. never had stall on either setup

If your rear tires get loaded enough it'll stall. I've never seen a Clod run, with 1 ESC, that didn't stall at some point.

Originally Posted by 5150rocker

I just found this link, what do you guys think ?????????
http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/h...ors/index.html

Wiring in series makes it even worse. Try it sometime, it's horrible.

[5150rocker]

Currently I am running a super with clods and two Intergy 55s. I have a Traxxas 2115 rec. and TQ3 radio. The radio was re-configured for rear-wheel steering. What I want to do is replace my current speed control with a Mamba, so I can have the lipo cut-off and be able to dial in on my computer. I will be running a 3s 4000 lipo. Yes I do under stand re: the dig, but I won't be dealing with that. The reason I mentioned the web link was regarding the parallel set-up. Wouldn't this fool the speed control dispite amp reqirment by one of the motors ?? Wouldn't it think the signlal requirment was coming from one motor ?? And for those who just can't resist, yes, I know the speed control can't think or let me see, can it ?? ... mmmmm.
Thanks

[5150rocker]

Well, I tried the Mamba with the traxxas receiver and transmitter (for rear-wheels) It works, but .... I think I'll just spend some money and do it right. Mamba both front and rear with all the goodies. Thanks to everyone for their imput.

[Master Basher]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

I should delete this thread for all the misinformation............

Clod stall is caused by differing loads on each motor. Each motor recieves a set voltage from the esc for any givin point on the throttle. For example lets say that 1/4 throttle deliveres 2 volts to the motor. This will only produce a set amount of amps, amps=torque. So now you have 2 motors putting out a set amount of torque. While climbing the rear receives more load. If this load exceeds the amount of torque the motor will stall. In a clod the rear will get more load durring a climb, so while the torque supplied by said 2 volts isn't enough to power the more heavily loaded rear it is enough to spin the front. Stall.

So if you just add another esc with a y harness this is what happens, you give the truck 1/4 throttle, the esc's get the same signal, they send 2 volts to the motors. No difference. Waisted ESC.

While driving there is an infinite variable of load between the front and rear. No setup will automaticly adjust for this, only slight compensation can be achieved.

The only cure is to learn to drive a twin stick radio with no mixing. You control both esc's all the time. Thats what I do, it works extremely well for me. It also opens up a whole new world of abilities to the world of compitition.

That is my novel and the last time I will explain it.

Thanks for explaining that. I decided to build a stick chassis clod axle crawler and today my lhs told me about clod stall, and I'd never heard of it, so I researched, and didn't understand it until your post.