What's going on with axle supply at the moment?

[Manning]

Originally Posted by GRIMGREG

The lack of easy to find crawlers for comp level is hurting the sport. How many people looking to get into crawling go hunting down a bunch of parts? They want to get a base unit they can use, like the Bully, or (at one time) the XR10. Why has scale crawling hit such a boom, you can find scalers in every LHS.

What got me into crawling, I saw a friend's crawler while on a 1:1 gtg. I came home and was able to buy one off the shelf at the LHS, for a reasonable price. If I wouldn't have been able to do that, I would probably never have got one.

Exactly. Comp crawling is destined to become an even tinier niche if the only suppliers are in people's garages and not hobby shops or mainstream online suppliers (tower, horizon). The garage guys make some cool stuff indeed, but I can't help but think they helped to contribute to the current situation. Getting off topic........

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Manning

Exactly. Comp crawling is destined to become an even tinier niche if the only suppliers are in people's garages...

Isn't that what (just about) all motor sports is about?

Try buying a competitive NASCAR or F1 car off the shelf, and see how easy it is...

We had a lengthy discussion about this topic here some year ago. The key is that the sport evolves all the time while the manufacturers that make kits and RTR need to use designs that won't be obsolete a month (or even two years) after they hit the market.
Just look at the LCC. As I've understood it that design was very competitive in the 2.2 class out-of-box when it was released. Now even with some serious and expensive upgrades it's not likely to win any major championships in the 2.2 class...

The only way to have competitive crawlers out-of-box is to have a competition class that is "locked" with very defined limits to what can be used and where it's mandatory to have the truck pretty much in out-of-box condition. No third party spares or upgrade parts (where it makes a performance difference) allowed!

[Manning]

Originally Posted by Olle P

Isn't that what (just about) all motor sports is about?

Try buying a competitive NASCAR or F1 car off the shelf, and see how easy it is...

We had a lengthy discussion about this topic here some year ago. The key is that the sport evolves all the time while the manufacturers that make kits and RTR need to use designs that won't be obsolete a month (or even two years) after they hit the market.
Just look at the LCC. As I've understood it that design was very competitive in the 2.2 class out-of-box when it was released. Now even with some serious and expensive upgrades it's not likely to win any major championships in the 2.2 class...

The only way to have competitive crawlers out-of-box is to have a competition class that is "locked" with very defined limits to what can be used and where it's mandatory to have the truck pretty much in out-of-box condition. No third party spares or upgrade parts (where it makes a performance difference) allowed!

In F1 there are rules prohibiting "buying" a ride. I believe one team can only sell a chassis to one other team. In NASCAR you most certainly can buy a ride. Just takes $$$$$.

The XR10 is a capable rig. Couple of minor tweaks and it's great. The Losi was junk from the start (sorry), they didn't learn from Kyosho's worm drive axle mistakes. Oops.

I hope RC4WD come out with a bully 2 roller. But they aren't mainstream (yet).

In RC racing, especially off road, anyone can walk into a hobby shop and buy a rig capable of winning any race anywhere in the world. No upgrades require or necessary. Pick from any number of manufacturers. Losi, AE, Kyosho, etc..... Don't need any parts made in someone's garage that if you don't already know about them, you simply don't know about them.

That's the difference.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by Manning

... The Losi was junk from the start (sorry), they didn't learn from Kyosho's worm drive axle mistakes.

So which shafty do you consider superior in performance straight out of box?

Originally Posted by Manning

In RC racing, especially off road, anyone can walk into a hobby shop and buy a rig capable of winning. ...
That's the difference.

I have a feeling that sport doesn't evolve that much any more. The winning car from five years ago would still perform top notch without alterations. Even if we go ten years back it should do okay, after a battery replacement.

The USRCCA Nationals winners from five or ten years ago will have a much harder time these days.

[redsawacs]

Originally Posted by Olle P

Isn't that what (just about) all motor sports is about?

Try buying a competitive NASCAR or F1 car off the shelf, and see how easy it is...

We had a lengthy discussion about this topic here some year ago. The key is that the sport evolves all the time while the manufacturers that make kits and RTR need to use designs that won't be obsolete a month (or even two years) after they hit the market.
Just look at the LCC. As I've understood it that design was very competitive in the 2.2 class out-of-box when it was released. Now even with some serious and expensive upgrades it's not likely to win any major championships in the 2.2 class...

The only way to have competitive crawlers out-of-box is to have a competition class that is "locked" with very defined limits to what can be used and where it's mandatory to have the truck pretty much in out-of-box condition. No third party spares or upgrade parts (where it makes a performance difference) allowed!

Exactly why the XR10 is no longer in production...You just cant allow the regulations (or regulators with a clearly misunderstand "Guidelines") to outpace manufacturing.

[GRIMGREG]

Originally Posted by redsawacs

Exactly why the XR10 is no longer in production...You just cant allow the regulations (or regulators with a clearly misunderstand "Guidelines") to outpace manufacturing.

That is why absolutely NO ONE is using XR10 axels anymore...

[Manning]

Originally Posted by Olle P

So which shafty do you consider superior in performance straight out of box?

I have a feeling that sport doesn't evolve that much any more. The winning car from five years ago would still perform top notch without alterations. Even if we go ten years back it should do okay, after a battery replacement.

The USRCCA Nationals winners from five or ten years ago will have a much harder time these days.

Best shafty? Axial. Ax10 axles with XR steering works very well, and can be done with zero "garage industry" parts (other than vanquish knuckles). The old AX10 RTC was a decent rig for a compete roller.

Yes agreed, off road has enjoyed a 20 year head start. Innovation has been fairly stagnant over the last 10 years. But There's some crazy evolution at the moment, mid motor configuration cars are becoming mainstream.

[Manning]

Originally Posted by redsawacs

Exactly why the XR10 is no longer in production...You just cant allow the regulations (or regulators with a clearly misunderstand "Guidelines") to outpace manufacturing.

Educate me please. What rules made XR axles obsolete?

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by GRIMGREG

That is why absolutely NO ONE is using XR10 axles anymore...

Guess my son & I need to sell our 3 sets of XR-10 axles......



[Yes GRIMGREG, I understood your sarcasm...]

[RcBro]

I will admit, the MOA side of crawling is for sure hard to understand and get into as a beginner. Not only is it hard, confusing and difficult, its expensive!

An MOA is not a good beginner rig, it will discourage anyone new to the hobby in my opinion. If one is looking to jump in the hobby, I truly suggest an AX10 or any one of the axial scalers. If you are competitive by nature and like to compete, the AX10 is the ticket. You can slowly upgrade this car at an affordable price and compete competitively at a practical budget.

The reason I suggest this route, is if you decide to go a step further you now have the opportunity to run two classes and get more drive time. You also learn the basics of crawling, how to drive them and what you like in a rig.

From there, you can take this experience and make an educated purchase on the available MOA axles and accessories on the market. Is the hobby dead? Certainly not.
Are the big vendors dead? Certainly

Small vendors like myself breathe this hobby, it is more then a business. Parts, availability and help will always be present. That is what makes RCC and this hobby one of the best!

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by RcBro

I will admit, the MOA side of crawling is for sure hard to understand and get into as a beginner. Not only is it hard, confusing and difficult, its expensive!

"MOAs" are actually pretty cheap!
You can get ~$200 RTR from for example HBX, Redcat, Ansmann, HSP or Nanda. Often featuring 4WS as well.
None of them are competitive though, and most aren't even comp legal out of box...

Originally Posted by RcBro

... If one is looking to jump in the hobby, I truly suggest an AX10 or any one of the axial scalers.

Me too.

Originally Posted by RcBro

If you are competitive by nature and like to compete, the AX10 is the ticket.

I'd say an LNC is also pretty comp worthy (for 2.2S) with a minimum of modifications.
It's THE most competent comp legal crawler out of box.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by GRIMGREG

...Why has scale crawling hit such a boom, you can find scalers in every LHS.

This is really a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" type of statement. Is scale crawling popular because they are in every LHS, or are they in every LHS because scale crawling became so popular? I believe it's the latter.

Originally Posted by Manning

...The garage guys make some cool stuff indeed, but I can't help but think they helped to contribute to the current situation. Getting off topic........

I've talked with others about this exact thing

Originally Posted by Olle P

Try buying a competitive NASCAR or F1 car off the shelf, and see how easy it is...

The problem is RC Crawling isn't F1...it's not even NASCAR. It's Dirt Track Ovals on a Saturday night. I believe that's what makes it so special, but it's also a problem. Some want to take it to the F1 level, but the majority have cast their votes with their wallets and gone the scaler route.

Like you said:

None of them are competitive though, and most aren't even comp legal out of box...

So the argument of MOA's being pretty cheap goes right out the window if your goal is to compete, which is what the OP originally said.

I wish there were more options available out of the box, but if there's no profit to be made, manufacturers aren't going to produce them. Comp made itself into a niche market, and the larger manufacturers have responded by going elsewhere.

[GRIMGREG]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

This is really a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" type of statement. Is scale crawling popular because they are in every LHS, or are they in every LHS because scale crawling became so popular? I believe it's the latter.

Tamiya and Kyosho had scale trucks since the 80s (70s?). So the eggs have been available long before the chickens flocked to them.

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

This is really a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" type of statement. Is scale crawling popular because they are in every LHS, or are they in every LHS because scale crawling became so popular? I believe it's the latter.

I think you're correct. I have no use for MOA personally since it's about as realistic as chainlink in the real world. Real rigs have drivelines and I prefer my rc's to have them too. I'm sure I'm not alone in that and the fact that the scale market is booming and the uber light MOA market is a small niche in the grand scheme of things.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by GRIMGREG

Tamiya and Kyosho had scale trucks since the 80s (70s?). So the eggs have been available long before the chickens flocked to them.

True, but I think the current market is what everyone is talking about.

[Bennyd]

As a crawling noob (25yr RC veteran) the lack of comp worthy rigs available at the moment is frustrating at the least, especially so being in Australia.

I am not interested in the scaler look, purely a comp rig and it looks like my options are;
- Build a rig from scratch $$$$
- Berg
- Bully (soon to be discontinued???)

This sucks, but it also looks like my best avenue will be the second hand market, then mod to my specs.

[RcBro]

Do you have a shafty built rig already? I'd highly suggest going this route before steeping up to MOA.

[Manning]

I've had the bully 2's in my hands, and they appear to be awesome. If they prove to be as tough as the original bully's, RC4wd has a hit a home run.

[Bennyd]

Originally Posted by RcBro

Do you have a shafty built rig already? I'd highly suggest going this route before steeping up to MOA.

I haven't no, but will take the advice on board, thanks.
Any reason you recommend a shafty first?

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by Bennyd

I haven't no, but will take the advice on board, thanks.
Any reason you recommend a shafty first?

Simple, cheap, waaaaaay more beginner friendly and just damned fun.