Droop Vs. others

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by Etype R

How is it robbing traction if most of my weight is on the axle? One tire or the other will be getting that traction, as my weight does not magicly disapear frmo the axles.

And again, the springs are very light, they still allow the axle to fully drop.

No matter how light the spring is it's made to pull up on the shock. Which is attached to the axle. Thus taking away from the full weight of axle and tire. It doesn't magically disappear the shock it taking away from it. This is going no where. I take what I got and go from there.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by Etype R

Droop can be built to sit lower, but have the same break over angle because the axles are able to drop when the belly gets high centered. Most droop setups are belly draggers.

Bingo... I limit the unloading with a zip tie from the chassis to the axle.

Here is another curve ball for you. I only run springs in the front shocks.

And yes, the only comparison I am making between the drrop and torsion is the ability to carry a tire. Now... I can increase the amount of articulation on my droop rig, while limiting unloading at the same time. With a torsion you could only increase flex with tire weight, and if you do that you will also increase the effect of unloading. Same with a stick chassis or a sprung rig.

The droop also alows the axles to fall away from the chassis to gain traction in a high center situation. Another thing that is impossible with all of the other designs.

I'm *trying* to answer your questions, let me know if it's working.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

Even Rockpiledriver said he uses a center mounted limiting strap to prevent that. And he runs the Droop set up. Far as I know.

No, I said I sometimes use limiting straps, but they are usually NOT in the center.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by Etype R

Lets say a droop rig has a 2.5" belly clearance, and a sprung has 2.75" belly clearance.

If both high center, the droop rigs axles can drop down a inch or more, hopefully finding traction. A sprung setup might be able to drop half a inch, but if they are a partial droop, they can drop more.

Don't know if I can make it any clearer then that....

You nailed it again.

My Hustler has MORE belly crearance than my stick did, while maintaining a much lower CG.

[Double J]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

No matter how light the spring is it's made to pull up on the shock. Which is attached to the axle. Thus taking away from the full weight of axle and tire. It doesn't magically disappear the shock it taking away from it. This is going no where. I take what I got and go from there.

If the spring is pulling the extended tire upward that gives the opposite tire push. think of a tetor toter.

That is what I'm getting out of it.?

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

No, I said I sometimes use limiting straps, but they are usually NOT in the center.

I meant to put some times in there. But you do sometimes anyway. When adding weight to the tire on a Torsion set up it does increase flex but helps fight unloading or backlash, b/c it has to pull a heaver tire up. The set ups between the two are completely different. You can adjust the flex on a Torsion chassis in a few ways. Drilling holes, polishing the backbone, Laying some sort of material in the backbone, weighting the tires and so on. These adjustments act differently when applied to a 4 link set up. Allow your tire to float with the internal spring just makes it act more like a Torsion chassis.

So by adding the Zip Tie/ Limiting strap to the axle you are just limiting the down travel. Correct. How does that help with unloading. It will still unload just not as far. Kind of answer my own question in a way I guess.

On the high centering thing I guess I don't come across that as much running a Pimp Cane. But it does still happen, but not as much. All in all thats where driving comes into play. The way you approach that rock that might High Center you.

On that curve ball. Why do you nor run springs in the rear? Do you just run thicker oil?

[run2jeepn]

Here is a Side pic of a Hustler.


And now one of a Stick.


How does it have more ground Clearance? And the tube chassis as more weight up high then the stick does. The internal springs are what helps keep it tight to the axles. Which would help on a Tube chassis, but I would still think it would hurt on a Light alumn plate chsssis set up.

[KRAWLR4life]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Bingo... I limit the unloading with a zip tie from the chassis to the axle.

Here is another curve ball for you. I only run springs in the front shocks.

And yes, the only comparison I am making between the drrop and torsion is the ability to carry a tire. Now... I can increase the amount of articulation on my droop rig, while limiting unloading at the same time. With a torsion you could only increase flex with tire weight, and if you do that you will also increase the effect of unloading. Same with a stick chassis or a sprung rig.

The droop also alows the axles to fall away from the chassis to gain traction in a high center situation. Another thing that is impossible with all of the other designs.

R2J, this is what I meant by PRECISE ADJUSTSMENTS with droop.
You could never get away with this setup with springs.
If theres anyone who knows and understands droop, that would be Rockpiledriver, IMO, I'm pretty sure he's got it down. Your questions are good, I think everyone learns something new everyday, I learned a few things from you in re: to the advantage of running a sprig suspension chassis and the comparision to 1:1 suspension. This is a good discussion, I must say.
~John

[Etype R]

The added ground clearance is when the rig gets high centered, and the axles drop down...

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by Etype R

The added ground clearance is when the rig gets high centered, and the axles drop down...

Ok...Thats where you get the ground clearance. Say your pulling up to a Rock Wall. Before you front tires try to climb up. Won't the suspension shorten and change your wheelbase. Seems a little funky to me. I have seen it happen with that set up.

[Etype R]

Like Cole said, not all setups shorten much. And with mine when I do climb, the front does not extend out very much that I have noticed. you just need to dial in your oil and springs in the shocks, and link setup is important as well.

[Rockpiledriver]

below V

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

I meant to put some times in there. But you do sometimes anyway. When adding weight to the tire on a Torsion set up it does increase flex but helps fight unloading or backlash, b/c it has to pull a heaver tire up. The set ups between the two are completely different. You can adjust the flex on a Torsion chassis in a few ways. Drilling holes, polishing the backbone, Laying some sort of material in the backbone, weighting the tires and so on. These adjustments act differently when applied to a 4 link set up. Allow your tire to float with the internal spring just makes it act more like a Torsion chassis.

There were several times with my stick chassis on an extreme side hill, the weight of the uphill tire would cause the rig to fall off. I could never seem to find the balance between the amount of twist I liked, and the ability to side hill like crazy. Mabey I just never found it, or mabey its just personal preference. I am assuming the same would hold true with a torsion chassis. but I know even less about them as I have not built one. I do agree that this can be compensated for in the ways you describe, but drilling holes and so forth is nowhere near as easy or as *reversable* as adding a temporary limit strap, changing a spring, or changing the weight of the oil.

So by adding the Zip Tie/ Limiting strap to the axle you are just limiting the down travel. Correct. How does that help with unloading. It will still unload just not as far. Kind of answer my own question in a way I guess.

Correct. It all depends on the course you are running, the length, and the placement of the strap.

On the high centering thing I guess I don't come across that as much running a Pimp Cane. But it does still happen, but not as much. All in all thats where driving comes into play. The way you approach that rock that might High Center you.

On that curve ball. Why do you nor run springs in the rear? Do you just run thicker oil?

I just like the rear to articulate more than the front. Personal preference. In my opinion the droop setup gives the ability to fine tune overall *feel* better than anything else I have tried. I also know that I still have a long way to go in finding that perfect setup.

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

Ok...Thats where you get the ground clearance. Say your pulling up to a Rock Wall. Before you front tires try to climb up. Won't the suspension shorten and change your wheelbase. Seems a little funky to me. I have seen it happen with that set up.

Exactly, on the ground clearance. If the rig is unloading that much when approaching the wall it is not set-up correctly.

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

below V

You should try a Pimp Cane then. If you are looking for a good mix of Side hilling capability and Climbing ability. A Torsion design like the Pimp Cane is less likely to lift a tire then a Stick style set up on Climbing hills. Same goes on side hills. The Pimp Cane and the stick react way different. The only thing they really share are the fixed joints on the axles and ground clearance. The only thing with a Pimp Cane style set up is you need more driving time under your belt. I plan on buying a Hustler, just for the fact That I want everything that goes with Crawlers and I'm greedy like that. I'm working on a New 2.2 Stick type chassis with Double J that should be pretty cool. It kind of combines all three chassis into one. Stick, Tuber, 4 Shocks, Links all of it. Just something different it all.

[run2jeepn]

This should almost be a sticky with all the info about every set up being thrown back and forth. I think we have almost nailed the pos and Neg of every set up there...

[KRAWLR4life]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

This should almost be a sticky with all the info about every set up being thrown back and forth. I think we have almost nailed the pos and Neg of every set up there...

Word

Stop piming the pimp
Was this a sales pitch...J/k
Actully, I'd be intrested in trying a 2.2 pimp, but not for comps, I like my comp rig...
Your right, this is a very good suspesion thread, I know I learned alot.
~John

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

This should almost be a sticky with all the info about every set up being thrown back and forth. I think we have almost nailed the pos and Neg of every set up there...

It is definately nice to have a discussion like this without attitudes or loyalties to a certain product or vendor getting in the way. I have learned quite a bit from this myself. Mabey I do need to try a Pimp Cane.

[KRAWLR4life]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

It is definately nice to have a discussion like this without attitudes or loyalties to a certain product or vendor getting in the way. I have learned quite a bit from this myself. Mabey I do need to try a Pimp Cane.

Thats because were all MEN in here, thank God the knuckleheads aren't in on this one but your right RPD, its nice to have discussions like this, we all benifit and nobody gets hurt
~John

[run2jeepn]

Originally Posted by KRAWLR4life

Thats because were all MEN in here, thank God the knuckleheads aren't in on this one but your right RPD, its nice to have discussions like this, we all benifit and nobody gets hurt
~John

My eyes hurt, does that count?

[KRAWLR4life]

Originally Posted by run2jeepn

My eyes hurt, does that count?

Well, technically, YES cuz my eyes and wrists hurts too!!!
It was good getting to know you and your thoughts behind suspesion setups.
Keep up the good work with the Biz!
~John