SORCCA rules comments, suggestions, and questions

[hotwheels000]

Just have everybody set their endpoints to 20

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by hotwheels000

Just have everybody set their endpoints to 20

Just work on your truck.

[rcjunky3]

is there any guidance or a thread regarding information in course building targeted towards scalers.

[hotwheels000]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Just work on your truck.

what am I missing here, I don't get it.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by rcjunky3

is there any guidance or a thread regarding information in course building targeted towards scalers.

Not really. What do you need to know?

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by War Pig

... add tons of time to tech, could you imagine everyone (100+ trucks at a national event) plugging their rigs in and driving them in a circle?

Setting it up as a separate "tech station" it should take ~30s per vehicle, which surely is less than the rest of the inspection.
Totals to one hour, but is done in parallel with the other inspections so minimal extra time required.

[rcjunky3]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Not really. What do you need to know?

i was just curious about course building guidelines based on reading several comments, looking at the points regarding winching and yet seeing people still winch in photos, along with this comment in the rules discussion

"I suppose you could run Class 1 trucks on Class 2 courses"

i just figured there has to be something that differentiates class specific courses and typically how many are built for each class. so anybody that has no SORRCA events in their area might have a better grasp on what to expect, course wise, if making a trek to lets just say scale nationals and or possibly wanting to get involved and having SORRCA events.

are class 1 courses typically easier in nature versus a class 3 course

what are the gate widths, are there different widths for each of the 3 classes

how many gates per course and what kind of time is typically allowed on course

not to copy the USRCCA but having some course guidelines in the rules sure is a handy tool for organizers, course builders and competitors

thanks for your time

[War Pig]

In the last part of the SORRCA rules is this information. It should cover all of your questions:

Course points and penalties:

Points:

Progress: -2 points
Reverse: +1 point
Gate Marker: +10 points
Rollover: +5 points
Boundary Marker: +10 points
Vehicle touch (repair & repositions): +10 points
Course direction: +10 points
Winch: +3 points
Assisted recovery: +10 points
Dig/rear steer: +5 points
Did not finish (or point out): point out or high score on course +20 points
Did not start: Point out or high score on course +50 points

Back up/reverse: (+1 pt) point is given when a vehicle reverses course after making forward progress. Reversing is defined as at any time if any of the tires move the vehicle backward or spin in the reverse direction, whether engaged or in freewheel and/or whether intentional or not. Once a reverse penalty is given, no further reverse penalty can be given until the vehicle makes forward progress. No penalty is given if the backward movement is part of a penalized rollover. If a driver begins a course in reverse, a reverse penalty will occur immediately.

Rollover: (+5pts) Points are given when a vehicle rolls over and cannot be corrected without touching. Once the vehicle has stopped it may be rolled back onto it's wheels and a +5 point penalty shall be given. Vehicles that land back on their wheels without assistance are not penalized. No reverse penalties will be awarded until the vehicle is righted. The vehicle may at no time be lifted, slid or moved in any way other than a smooth, continuous roll to the left or right side only. Any other manipulation or movement of the vehicle will be considered a "vehicle touch" penalty.

Vehicle touch: (+10 pts) All vehicle touches excluding “rollovers”, "winching", "assisted recoveries" (see associated rules) , intentional or unintentional, are given an automatic +10 points. The judge then will stop time when either the driver calls for a vehicle touch or the judge calls a driver touch. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Note: All gates for progress are still “live” unless a gate has already been deemed “dead”.

Vehicle touches: include but are not limited to: repairs, repositions, vehicle driving/falling into the driver.

On-course repairs: (+10pts) Must be completed on course and in the spot of which the driver decided to take the repair. Repairs must be made within the course time, while the course timer will continue to run. If repairs are made within the course time, the driver must return to the last previous gate cleared. If repairs cannot be made within the course time, the driver is given a DNF minus progress points for that course. There are no restrictions on whom or how the repairs are made.

Off-course repairs: (+10pts) A driver can call time to make an off-course repair. Repairs should be completed within 30 minutes, or the driver is given a DNF minus progress points. If the repair is made in the allotted time, the driver must return to the last previous gate cleared. A 1 minute time penalty will be subtracted from the time that is left on that course, the timer will continue once the vehicle makes forward progress.

Reposition: (+10 pts) The vehicle will be placed with it's rear tires in the last gate progressed or the nearest stable location after the last cleared gate if the last gate cleared is unstable.

Gate marker: (+10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when all wheels do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle, a tow strap or winch line touches a gate marker. A gate marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course. Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker. Only when a gate penalty is assessed will that gate marker be deemed "dead". No further penalties will be assessed at this point for that gate marker. There will no longer be a penalty for stepping on a gate (for safety reasons) but please stay off course as much as possible and limit course damage.

Boundary Marker: (+10 pts each) Points are given when any part of the vehicle touches a boundary marker. Once a boundary marker is touched the judge then will stop time, and the vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. A boundary marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course, and should be replaced if moved. Boundary markers are not required in the design of a course.

DNF (Did Not Finish): (High score or point out +20 pts) are given anytime a driver cannot complete a course for any reason. (Time expired, point-out, vehicle not repairable, went hom, etc) Progress points are awarded for each gate completed and scale points are awarded. **If there is no point out you use the highest score on that course before scale and progress points**

DNS (Did Not Start): (High score or point out +50 pts) are given anytime a driver cannot start a course for any reason. Vehicle must start course under its own power. No scale points will be awarded to this course.

Progress bonus: (-2 progress point) shall be awarded to drivers for each gate that is cleared by the vehicle during the attempt of a course. A gate is considered cleared and a progress bonus shall be given when at least one front and one rear tire passes completely through the gate in the intended direction of the gate. All tires must pass completely through the gate to receive the progress bonus without a gate penalty. A 10 point gate penalty shall be given if all tires do not clear the gate, even if no gate marker is touched or straddled. The tires of the vehicle must travel completely through the gate, and not just break the plane of the gate. Tires must pass through the gate in the same direction and in the same attempt before a progress bonus is awarded. These points are deducted from the total course score. Once a driver has pointed out, no further progress points will be awarded.

Course Direction: (+10 pts) Gates must be cleared in their intended direction and sequence. Any part of the vehicle entering an non-cleared gate in the wrong direction, or driven through out of sequence will result in a +10 point penalty. The judge will stop time. The vehicle is then moved back to the previously cleared gate (see reposition rule). Once the gate is cleared and awarded progress it can be traveled in any sequence or direction.

Winching: (+3 pts each) A winch penalty will be assessed every time the winch cable is connected for a pull. If the winch line comes unhooked during a pull, or a 2nd attachment is needed, another penalty will be assessed. If at any time during the process of removing recovery tools and/or winch line from vehicle, the vehicle is moved by any force other than it's winch or it's own power, a touch penalty will be assessed and the vehicle repositioned to the last cleared gate (see vehicle touch rule).

Assisted Recovery: (+10 pts) At any time during the course, a driver may call for an assisted recovery. With the clock running, another vehicle will be brought onto the course to pull or winch the stranded vehicle to safety. The stranded vehicle shall not be pulled beyond the original position of the rescuing vehicle or it will result in another assisted recovery penalty.

Dig/Rear steer (Class 3 only): (+5 pts) Dig and rear steer are both legal in Class 3, but only one may be used per course. The first use of dig or rear steer will incur a +5 point penalty, subsequent uses of the same feature (dig or rear steer) on the same course are free. Use of the other feature is prohibited. If at any time on the same course the driver uses rear steer after using dig, or uses dig after using rear steer, a +10 reposition penalty will be incurred, and the truck will be placed at the last cleared gate.

Safety time out: A driver may call for time to stop so that he or she may safely reposition themselves on the course. This time shall be used for the purpose of driver safety and may not be used to survey the course or for any other advantage. Once the competitor is repositioned the time will start, however the judge has the right to start time at any point.

Vehicle out-of-spec: If the Judge has reason to believe a vehicle is out of spec during a course run, he may call time to stop. At that point no additional inputs maybe given by the driver to the vehicle via touch or radio control. The Judge must mark the vehicle’s location and perform a tech inspection in the specified tech area (same manner as all other tech inspections). If the vehicle has been deemed within spec, the driver and vehicle will return to the location marked by the judge and the clock will start once again. If the vehicle is now out of spec and the Judge has determined that the vehicle has gained an advantage, the driver must take a repair to correct the problem. If the problem can not be corrected to bring the vehicle back within spec, the driver will receive a DNF for that course. If a vehicle falls out of spec due to breakage on course and the judge determines the driver has not gained an advantage, then the driver may be allowed to continue on course without stopping time and requiring a tech inspection. Bodies, and body panels are not included in this exception, and must be replaced immediately, standard repair procedures and penalties apply.


As for a couple of your questions above that weren't answered by the SORRCA rules:

Class 1 courses are typically quite a bit easier than class 2 courses. More difficult climbs and off camber gates because c2 rigs are usually quite a bit more capable than c1. We allow 15 minutes per course at our local evets, typically it's more like 8 minutes at a big event.

Typically there is a start gate that isn't live and you don't get progress for. There are 9 sets of gates and a finish gate (10 total) that are all live and you get progress for. This makes it easy to add up the progresses later when you're figuring out scores.

We build 2 courses for each class in our monthly series but typically we do 3-4 per class at large events.

Hope all this helps, Tim.

[rcjunky3]

So once a driver earns +20 he or she is pointed out , am I reading that correct

I am not seeing in the rules anything regarding gate width or is this not really a concern.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by rcjunky3

So once a driver earns +20 he or she is pointed out , am I reading that correct

I am not seeing in the rules anything regarding gate width or is this not really a concern.

I think they do it a little differently. They say you get an additional 20 point penalty for a DNF. Course point out is optional in these rules.

[hotwheels000]

Originally Posted by rcjunky3

So once a driver earns +20 he or she is pointed out , am I reading that correct

I am not seeing in the rules anything regarding gate width or is this not really a concern.

National events will usually set a point out to keep the event flowing, at a local level not usually...You have x amount of time to get it done. We use 10 min in Wa.

Read thru this VVVVV you will find the gate widths listed per class



Class-1 “Street” Details:

• Vehicle must have a windshield that fills the entire windshield frame.
• Full width bumpers are required on the front and rear of the vehicle. Bumpers that are molded into the body qualify. A rear bumper is not required on a flatbed, but adding one to the flatbed will gain the additional scale points. (Bumpers are measured from the outsides and must be the width of your windshield).
• Wheels must be aligned within the body wheel wells (center of wheels to center of wheel wells +/- 1/2 inch total combined)
• The vehicles body must be mostly intact. Only mild trimming such as flairs & removing a hardtop are allowed. If the hardtop is removed, a full interior is required (no extreme trimming of bodies allowed *See below.)
• The tread of the tires cannot extend outside of the wheel wells more then 1/2 of the tread width, flairs can be added to reach min. spec.
• Vehicle must run a full length rail chassis (The rail chassis must be as long as the vehicles wheelbase)(Tamiya CC-01 chassis are allowed).
• Truggies are not allowed, flatbeds with full length rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed. Cab only not allowed.
• Tires can never extend beyond the body’s bumpers or the rear of any truck bed. (Any stingers, fairleads, shackles, bolts, etc are not considered part of a bumper when determining this.)
• Dovetailing is not allowed.
• Sectioning or narrowing of the body is not allowed.
• Bobbing a truck bed is allowed, but must follow all body specs.
• Boat sides are not allowed.
• 106mm / 4.19" Max tire size including spares.
• Gates will be a minimum of 11" wide (so mind your width).

Class-2 “Trail” Details:

• Body/cage work must be at least 4.5" tall (including boat sides) and the inside of the front tires cannot extend outside of the width of the cab at the doors.
• A front bumper is required and must be mounted to the vehicle's rail chassis and must be wider than the outside of the chassis rails (chassis cross rails do not count as bumpers).
• You must run a full rail chassis, and the chassis (including bumpers) must be 3" longer than the wheelbase (this includes a chassis with a truggy rear frame).
•Truggies are allowed, but you must replace the ladder frame behind the cab with tube, and the truggy rails must extend past the rear axle pumpkin to be legal. The bed must have a roll bar hoop and integrated shock mounts. It also must be a structural part of the rear of the vehicle. (If your bed does not meet ALL of the preceding criteria, it does not count as a truggy bed).
• Flatbeds that run the full length of the rail chassis are allowed. The bed must be as wide as the cab the entire length of the bed.
• 2 of the 3 following modifications are allowed:
- Dovetailing the rear *a truggy/tube bed that is narrower than the cab counts as a dovetail* (1/2 the width of the widest part of the cab).
- Boat sides (no more than 1.25" measured vertically from the bottom of the skid).
- Pinching the front (2/3 the width of the widest part of the cab).
• 120mm / 4.75" max tire size with a 2.2 max rim size including spare.
• Gates will be a minimum of 12" wide (so mind your width).

Class-3 “Modified” Details:
• 146mm / 5.75" max tire size with a 2.2 max rim size (including spare).
• A bumper is not required, but to be counted for points it must be mounted to the vehicle's chassis and wider than the the chassis rails (chassis cross rails do not count as bumpers).
• Gates will be a minimum of 13" wide.
• Class 3 body minimum specs:
Rock sliders, mirrors, etc do not count in these measurements:
- The distance between the inside of the tires (of any axle) can be no greater than 1.25" more than the width of the body at the doors. *Example* (7" inside-of-tire to inside-of-tire = body must be 5.75" wide).
- The body must be at least 5" wide from the front to the rear of the doors.
- Tire height can be no more than 0.5" taller than cab height. Height is measured from the bottom of the skid to the top of the bodywork/tube not including a light bar. (5.5" tire = 5" tall from bottom of skid to top of cab/tubework)
- Body must be at least as long as the wheelbase of the vehicle.
• Body modifications including, but not limited to, pinched front, dove-tailing and boat-siding are permitted as long as the final dimensions comply with the minimum size rules

[hotwheels000]

Keep in mind those are mins, a lot of times the gates will be wider depending on what the terrain offers. Some times I will have 20" wide gates so that there are options for all the rigs abilitys in that class, not just the top rigs or drivers ability. Also, since we cant pre-run or test the lines, it is sometimes wise to give options incase the first try doesn't work.... and then there is just the shear fun of seeing who sees the less obvious but easier line if they look around and use all the available terrain to their advantage

[rcjunky3]

Thanks guys for all the help I totally missed the widths at the bottom of each class

[War Pig]

Thanks Dev and Josh, hope these help. Please ask any other questions you may have, it helps keep my mind fresh on the rules when I keep going back and forth checking them

[maslin]

Originally Posted by Olle P

- 4WS: Allowed if the competitor can present documentation that it's a standard feature for the vehicle type.

I don't know about Sweden, but here in the states that would limit you to a few early 90's Nissan sports cars and some obscure GMC Denali pick ups and SUVs?, maybe a few more?

Originally Posted by Olle P

- Winch scale points: Again, competitor presents documentation.

In the states that's the Power Wagon and...? Pretty limited.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by maslin

(Standard 4WS) I don't know about Sweden, but here in the states that would limit you to a few early 90's Nissan sports cars and some obscure GMC Denali pick ups and SUVs?, maybe a few more?

As I noted in my first post I think mostly of pre WW2 models, of which there are quite a few with 4WS.

In those days steering with driven axles (typically on leaf springs as well)was severely limited. Therefore 4WS was required to get a turning radius almost as tight as what you get with "modern" (last 50 years) 2WS/4WD.

(As a side note Volvo didn't use front wheel drive on a standard car until the 850 model (launched 1991) because of the poor steering with driven axles!)