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08-25-2014, 07:30 PM | #81 |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Columbus
Posts: 324
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14
I see it as this..... I run and let's say I am doing good but then literally get WEDGED in between 2 rocks. Close to the end but then DNF'd due to time etc etc. so I take my DNF along with its hefty price tag and move on to the other courses where btw I don't DNF and do quite well to land a top 5 spot. That hefty price tag isn't fair enough? Do we really need to add the instant loss factor to it as well?
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08-25-2014, 07:34 PM | #82 | ||||||||
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,583
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
Look at all racing...you can lose a qualifier, but win a race. Jack of all trades, master of none...I thought we were looking for CHAMPIONS/ meaning best overall score. Quote:
Sad to think we have to be separate groups. Maybe I shouldn't be allowed to scale then...I am a comp guy still. Pro Comp rules are more true to scale than Scale Comp rules. Scale points don't exist in the real world, safety is a concern not who can put in the most beer cans or baseball bats. Ever seen a class 3 type rig in person with glued or bolted on scale items just to earn some points? Quote:
How'd you handle missing scale items? Odd I could have teched in much higher, removed things and no one cared EVER. I lost a few items, still NO MENTION I would be losing scale points. Literally could have teched in with Chassis Steering and removed it for my much better servo on axle, no one would have ever known. Quote:
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Ahh more Comp trash talk. Keep up the great attitude, you'll be one of the scale guys eventually doing it alone when yet another group forms because SORCCA is unwilling to change for the better. USRCCA had issues, but lets leave them as USRCCA issues and maybe learn from them. The elitist attitude can go both ways....just as ugly when a Scale guy acts better. Quote:
Show me a 1:1 class where when you add things to your truck you get more points? How many 1:1 rigs on a trail are packed with weird items, do they do it for Scale realism? Or hey, my truck sucks at crawling, but if I add more scale points I have a chance. It's not about the truck or driving, just adding scale points. Seems like that is best left to Show and Shine. Quote:
---- So I have 2 complaints that aren't addressed: 1: 13" gate widths and yet nothing to make that fair or fun to all the drivers or all the current axles on the market. 2: Why is the show and shine AFTER classes have to run and get beat up? I mean some of the rigs entered are basically static models. How can anyone even compete with that? | ||||||||
08-25-2014, 07:41 PM | #83 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: .
Posts: 7,967
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
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08-25-2014, 07:45 PM | #84 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Having fun again...
Posts: 2,641
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
Two words.. TRAIL CLASS. | |
08-25-2014, 07:45 PM | #85 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Here
Posts: 7,317
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
I would like to discuss some thoughts with you regarding ORVA that may help. Not sure if you heard but I will be bringing the RC4WD Scale Challenge Nationwide and Canada...so consistency will be important and ORVA has the chance to make it right. Let me get back on track and then we can talk. John | |
08-25-2014, 07:49 PM | #86 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Here
Posts: 7,317
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
1. Not sure of Minimum and Max gates. 2. I originally mentioned to do SnS on Thursday Night but I got complaints that not everyone would be there (Legitimate). I don't think anyone held a couple scratches against a vote. But it is something to look at in 2015. | |
08-25-2014, 07:50 PM | #87 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 893
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
You almost have to listen to anyone that can keep Farmer in line | |
08-25-2014, 07:51 PM | #88 | |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Geneva, FL
Posts: 334
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
Best overall score of all completed courses... maybe im just over thinking the whole thing.. i just do not understand why a person having a DNF thinks he/she deserves a shot at the title, in an event like this.. You build your rig to withstand the ultimate punishment in hopes of finishing all the courses for a shot at the title.. or at least that is what i do and then i get bumped by a guy/girl that had a DNF. THAT is what makes me not want to compete. Also here is my (0) ZERO scale point rig... | |
08-25-2014, 07:55 PM | #89 | |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
Sounds great. I had a 30 minute talk with the programmer about this today, how to ensure consistency is done right and how we can keep our databases flexible to rules changes that affect scoring. Congrats on turning into a series! | |
08-25-2014, 08:33 PM | #90 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,583
| Quote:
Let's say you have 2 perfect courses (-40 total) and a bummer DNF (let's say worst guy got a 100 so 100-20 progress, he got all 10 gates clean but missed the time through the finish). Add in -30 scale points. That's 10 points. Now a guy thinking like you got 3 courses in with unlimited DNF and got 150-20, 350-20, and 40-20. Let's give him the same -30 scale points. His score was 480 points. He finished all 3 but Jesus Christ he's the worst crawler ever when it comes to avoiding points and being a good crawler deserving to move on. Who is really the better crawler of those 2? Doesn't matter if you comp or scale it's CLEARLY the first driver. Crawling, real crawling is based on lowest points wins. I believe your outlook fits TTC events, not crawling events. | |
08-25-2014, 08:37 PM | #91 | |
SuperShafty.com Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Visalia CA
Posts: 2,902
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
Binary: why wasnt i quoted? i feel left out. you make some really sound points. the main i like is the 13" widths. my Deuce it easily 12.5" wide. so i couldnt fit through many gates at all. oh and as far as the maz scores being around 60 in C2. what about C3. they were well above 100 for a course! something weird happened there too, but at least the weirdness seemed to happen to everyone. boundaries? just dont have them. then there won't be any fusion. just have gates and a direction to progress them. that is what we do at our local events, and its always worked fine | |
08-25-2014, 08:48 PM | #92 |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Geneva, FL
Posts: 334
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14
Again proving my point that technically you could've DNF'd 2 of the courses or even all 3 courses and still had a shot.. and that to me is just dumb.. but i guess we will agree to disagree.. Maybe thats why i got the ZERO, lol. Damn LED's on the hood. |
08-25-2014, 08:58 PM | #93 | |||
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,583
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 You just won a quote! Mainly because I agreed with your points. Quote:
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Though I did get him in trouble at the award/raffle banquet. Sorry John | |||
08-25-2014, 09:02 PM | #94 |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: May 2010 Location: Columbus
Posts: 295
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14
I do have one suggestion that could help with not only this issue, but with scheduling as well. We have three classes, events that sell out months in advance with 120 to 150 trucks. Something we were talking about for our event next July is three days, one class each day. Courses are tested, then average time will have say, 5 minutes for example, added to the cut off time. It gives the competitors more course time, opens up scheduling, etc. Just my $.02
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08-25-2014, 10:20 PM | #95 | |
owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down!
Posts: 20,290
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14
What everybody should do is step back and realize that almost everything being discussed are minor details on the whole. I guarantee that everybody had a blast at the event (wish I could have made it), and this conversation online is out of proportion to the overall sentiments. And to be honest with ourselves there is ALWAYS an area where an event can be improved. My last event didn't have trophies and people brought it up. I'll make trophies next time and we just have the next biggest issue rise to the top, you see? Online discussions can make it seem like the fun has already been drained, when in real life (IRL) everybody is still having fun. But this \/ \/ IS an issue that I see too and I'm going to do something about it myself. I have watched the various competitions splinter off over the years and we have just separated ourselves from ourselves. Enough!! Quote:
So I'm taking action now. I'll leave the rest for discussion here http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/chit-...ml#post4875117 | |
08-25-2014, 11:02 PM | #96 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The beautiful Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,923
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 Quote:
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08-26-2014, 07:09 AM | #97 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,583
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My issue with gate width is brought back to new drivers again. Class 3 is basically where a box stock Wraith ends up. That drivers truck is 11.3" wide. Leaving only 1.7" per gate set, less than an inch per side. Now a more veteran crawler might run an AX10 axle and get more room. I get the idea of competition and making the choice of width based on scale rules and performance. The problem is it still needs to be newbie centric. Meaning a stock RTR driver shouldn't be punished to have to drive more cleverly than a seasoned driver who thought about the width quandary and is likely a better driver based on experience. Believe me I'll make my truck work, just trying to help shine a light on a problem a new guy with a Wraith will be penalized for. This is my first scale event, so while I know how to crawl from the years of comp crawling, I still see some issues. I don't expect all of them to change, just doing my part as a participant to shine lights that others may not see. |
08-26-2014, 07:15 AM | #98 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Detroit
Posts: 3,583
| Quote:
And yes I had a blast. I had a blast when I thought I did terrible. Sure that moment when I found out I was in Top 5 and TTC I had more fun, but just the run time I got with the 3 courses was enough to have a blast and make me begin planning for next time. | |
08-26-2014, 07:40 AM | #99 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,255
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14 |
08-26-2014, 08:32 AM | #100 |
SuperShafty.com Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Visalia CA
Posts: 2,902
| Re: Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals. ECSC14
yeah, this is blown way out of proportion for sure. the event was an insanely positive experience, and gave me a shot in the arm for new ideas. more new fun trucks to build. new ways to do out local comps. this is and was only supposed to be a discussion based on experiences from an even that had a large national/international audience. Since i started the thread,i can take full responsibility for any of the negative things said about ECSC. i commend John, and his team on doing this event. it is by far an event that you should go to if you have any interest at in this hobby. All rules are meant to be broken, and bent. its just human nature. Just be glad our hobby doesnt pull in too many Lawyers... we would all be screwed. that being said. lets try to keep ECSC out of this, as this should be a rule discussion only. i understand using examples from the event because there were a lot of us there who are very passionate about out rigs, and our runs. we all want to be competitive and have an equal competitive advantage on our fellow competitors when it comes to the rules we all must obey. John was correct lets move on from the ECSC references, and lets start talking about the rules. Ask how we can help SORCA, ask for town meetings, organize conference calls. lets try to make this happen as the off season of winter approaches. I would like to ask a moderator to remoce the ECSC part from the title of this thread if possible. Last edited by mjderstine; 08-26-2014 at 09:08 AM. Reason: grammar |
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