Didn't finish all the courses. still in the finals.

[mjderstine]

Ok, first i want to thank everyone at ECSC14, Mainly John, John, and Chad for doing the organizing and marshaling. it is not an easy thing to do at all.

This thread in no way should reflect poorly on the event, the judges, or competitors. Please keep this above the belt, and open minded.

ok, here we go. In class 2 there were many of the top 5 drivers who did not finish course 3. There were only two drivers who finished the course with a negative score, myself and sf2000xj. we both did not make the top 5.

So, as i understand it, a DNF is the worst score +20.

just spit balling, but what about the gates they didnt progress? would it make sense for them to also get the penalties for each gate they didn't progress and then add 20 to the highest score?

i am sure there is a lot more to say from others.


BTW: this scenario put me into the top 5 in C1, and out in C2. so i am actually on both sides of the fence here.

[ROWDY RACING]

40 minus progress duh.

[Harley]

Huge loop hole in the scale rules. ty and I actually talked about this specifically BEFORE class 2 even started. Crazy that it came around to be true this weekend.

SORRCA has to realize that this is a very poorly thought out rule. This has been a method that has been worked through before and their method of reinventing the wheel leaves gaps for these things to happen. The point out value needs to be set for the courses beforehand (40, 50, whatever).

[RebelRacer]

First off I had an absolute blast at this event met a ton of awesome people and made a lot of new friends..
When we host events, DNF's are in a completely different category. If you DNF there shouldn't be a chance to make the top anything... If wouldn't have affected me to much but I feel for the guys that it would've, granted I finish all 3 courses but what I'm wondering about is the reason I have ZERO scale points..

[Harley]

I put no fault for this happening this weekend on John and those guys. Separate scoring issues aside, those happen and it sucks but those stacks of papers are daunting, but this is a SORRCA issue.

[RebelRacer]

Originally Posted by Harley

I put no fault for this happening this weekend on John and those guys. Separate scoring issues aside, those happen and it sucks but those stacks of papers are daunting, but this is a SORRCA issue.

I agree 100% but it for sure needs to be addressed.

Side note, I forgot to get with you and see if you had those 4pl adapters.

[mjderstine]

yeah, this is in no way an ECSC issue. and i hope i made that clear in my first post.

in C1 i dnf'd on one course, but had made all the gates. on C2 i finished all the courses and i don't think anyone in the top 5 finished that course with the bridge. maybe Dirtyfinger did since his score isnt as high as the other 4 in the top 5.

i'd be more than willing to be in the discussion of a new idea for this.

[GiJoe]

I too commend everyone on a Fantastic Event! None of this will deter me from competing in the future, BUT....

This is my "SuperBowl"...

I too was shown 0 (zero) scale points when I actually had -37

given the 50% rule per course, that would have put me at -47 or -50 (don't know if 50% of 37 was 18 or rounded to 19) total for all courses.

either way, that puts me up into 6th place range...not 22!

[mjderstine]

you round down...

[boob dude]

We had the same problem at the SWSC in Utah this spring, but as luck has it it didn't change the outcome but close. So we changed the Dnf penalty for class 2 the next day. I'm sure it will be a topic of discussion in SORRCA this year for the 2015 rules. Sounds like everyone had a great time ECSC 14 wish I could have made it maybe next year.

[R2j]

We did start a discussion about it after SWSC and will be addressed for the 2015 rules.

[pardonmyn00b]

I DNF'd a course and somehow made class 2 finals. I didn't expect to come close because of my driving abilities I figured a DNF would knock me down so far I wouldn't have a shot anyway. This isn't the only item on the rules that need to be looked into. Being allowed to drive outside of boundary lines on courses is a loophole only a select few would know and it was exploited on more than one occasion.

[Rckcrwlr]

First off...I want to thank everyone for the support.

When I was scoring this and saw the pattern...I contacted WarPig to verify I was doing it right and he confirmed. I also talked with the marshals about it.

I have one question for my own clarification...

Our courses were 10 gates and a finish. This I did not know until I saw people DNFing with 10 cleared gates. Could that have been why it was more apparent?

[gdb85]

Thank you for starting this thread. Didn't want it to clutter up ECSC event at all and any of the remarks or complaints/suggestions should have absolutely no reflection on the event.

The biggest culprit in this whole deal is SORRCA! The fellas on the rules committee did a great job on structuring guide lines for scale comps but they dropped the "ball" on this one big time. A little too much of the Pro Comp crap carried over on this particular rule and I don't want scale comps to head down that path.

We were talking at our cabin last evening and a couple fellas competed in the past in some 1:1 events and if you DNF'd (Did NOT Finish) then you were not on the podium or in any kind of finals. You don't finish you don't win, period.

I know there may be situations in our little 1/10 world that a spot or two may need to be filled by a driver that DNF'd but if there was 5 drivers that finished all 3 courses at our event then any driver with a DNF should not have even been considered for a finals course.

Our local club is not SORRCA affliated and probably won't be until something is done to change this rule.

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch thinking I'm crying "sour grapes" and I'm bitter, I DNF'd both classes I entered so I didn't get bumped from anything or robbed of a finals spot. Just speaking my mind on a "bad" rule that's all.

I can't believe it's taken 3 yrs. for this to be a topic openly.

[gdb85]

Originally Posted by pardonmyn00b

I DNF'd a course and somehow made class 2 finals. I didn't expect to come close because of my driving abilities I figured a DNF would knock me down so far I wouldn't have a shot anyway. This isn't the only item on the rules that need to be looked into. Being allowed to drive outside of boundary lines on courses is a loophole only a select few would know and it was exploited on more than one occasion.

This was a big problem. I take full responsibility for this since I was heavily involved in course set up. I was super embarrassed when I saw folks taking advantage of errant and missing borders and in essence cutting the course but with in the "so called rules" technically.

[GiJoe]

Its very possible. I judged Class 1 course #2.
I had a few people barely clear gate #10, then run out of time before the designated "finish line". The way it was explained to me, that was a DNF if time ran out.




We were also told NOT to add scale points to the score sheets. The scale points and any other penalties such as DNF would be handled by the guys in the pavilion. Hence the reason no one (judges) were adding up points on the score sheets.

That being said, no drivers, myself included were giving any scale point info. We assumed it was on record and being tallied at the pavilion.


I never saw final scores till tonight. My class 2 scale points were never added and that makes a HUGE difference in my final score and overall place! I know John, you said you can't chase every driver down, but we all thought once teched in, it was on record! They got my Class 3 points entered!


Don't get me wrong, I'm not smearing the event or bashing anyone. Mistakes happen and we learn from them. I still had a great time and look forward to next year, but I possibly missed out on a top 5, Class 2 finals position if the DNF's come into play too.

[mjderstine]

Originally Posted by pardonmyn00b

I DNF'd a course and somehow made class 2 finals. I didn't expect to come close because of my driving abilities I figured a DNF would knock me down so far I wouldn't have a shot anyway. This isn't the only item on the rules that need to be looked into. Being allowed to drive outside of boundary lines on courses is a loophole only a select few would know and it was exploited on more than one occasion.

i dnf'd a course in C1, but made all the gates, so it was a bit odd since the last finish gate isnt a gate... so how does that even work into this. time expired as i was driving the finish "gate"

the boundary lines was a weird thing on course 3 of c2. when the course was setup all the judges were told that all the drivers must go up and around that tree because that is where the boundary went. so that is how it was judged in the beginning. i think when the alternate judges took over the word was not passed along and some of the more experienced drivers used this gap in the boundary to avoid the obstacle, and the judge was none the wiser.
maybe the the orange line got worn away, or was not painted all the way to the gate in the first place, so some contestants started to work this gap to their advantage, avoiding perhaps one of the most difficult parts of the course that a majority of the drivers were told they must go to. believe me, i talked about it for a long time with contestants, other judges, and the marshalls themselves.

in hind site the boundary should have extended from the gate to the water, or just put a gate up that obstacle past the tree.

[mjderstine]

Originally Posted by GiJoe

Its very possible. I judged Class 1 course #2.
I had a few people barely clear gate #10, then run out of time before the designated "finish line". The way it was explained to me, that was a DNF if time ran out.




We were also told NOT to add scale points to the score sheets. The scale points and any other penalties such as DNF would be handled by the guys in the pavilion. Hence the reason no one (judges) were adding up points on the score sheets.

That being said, no drivers, myself included were giving any scale point info. We assumed it was on record and being tallied at the pavilion.


I never saw final scores till tonight. My class 2 scale points were never added and that makes a HUGE difference in my final score and overall place! I know John, you said you can't chase every driver down, but we all thought once teched in, it was on record! They got my Class 3 points entered!


Don't get me wrong, I'm not smearing the event or bashing anyone. Mistakes happen and we learn from them. I still had a great time and look forward to next year, but I possibly missed out on a top 5, Class 2 finals position if the DNF's come into play too.

i never told anyone my scale points. and mine were tallied in the final scoring. so hmmmmmm...

[Rckcrwlr]

Originally Posted by mjderstine

i never told anyone my scale points. and mine were tallied in the final scoring. so hmmmmmm...

I think he means on the score sheets...

[mjderstine]

yeah. i meant i didnt tell the judges at the start of each course. its late.

time for some well earned rest.

and maybe tomorrow i can start doing the maintenance on all my rings.