torque twist

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by rockmike

keep posting youre findings as you adjust youre links and ill do the same and like i said earlier wellall learn somthing and all are trucks will work morebetter:-P :-P tanis is that shatty that doug is talking about bugging out on the nwwheelers site.Iremember somone else saying the stock r.r.foams are junk.Ill be at rimrock on labor day weekend maybe we could hook up that weekend and do some crawlin.

Yes it's kind of weird what doug is doing. At goldendale and from reading his posts on nw, he seemed like he was totally gungho about competing. Now I don't know what's going on. Hope he is still into it. Seems like he's put a lot of time and work into the club. Maybe he's getting burnt out having to run a lot of it. I know it can lose its fun factor in a hurry that way. I might be able to get up to rimrock on labor day, just don't know for sure yet. Have to check with the boss..err..the wife first.

[rockmike]

ya strange he'll go up to moab and kick some butt and the fire will be lit again,hope the wife unit will see it youre way:-P

[rockmike]

hey guys thought i would post some progress,i put dual stage pistons in my shocks,heavier dampning on compression stroke on left side and heavier dampning on the extension stroke on the right side.This definatly helped my twist issues.:-P :-P :-P try it out.

[Tanis]

What shock fluid did you use? I'm running 30wt right now. Haven't gotten down to the store to pick up any other weights. I learned how to solder and made a couple 8 cell batteries. What a difference that made. I now need to get a smaller pinion because I have crazy wheel speed. What exactly is a dual stage piston? I have some with more or less holes in them, but I don't know what a dual stage is.

[rockmike]

Im runnin45 weight oil,i hope they still make these shock pistons,there r.p.m. dual stage the piston is a two piece.Depending which derection you install them,they'll spread apart and allow more fluid to flow through the holes in one direction then close in the other direction for stiffer dampnin.So on the right side you have stiffer dampnin when they extend on the left side they'll have stiffer dampnin when they compress,seems to help torque twist set up like this.hope i explained this clearly tanis let me know.Next im going to try settin up mor anti squat on the left rear top link than the right rear top link, make the top rearlinks kinda offset in theory this and the other mods im thinkin i should have torque twist controlled other than maybe forced articulation,this could work but im out of channels on my radio.later fire off some ideas im willin to try any thing this is gettin fun im going to kick the shat out of this torqe twist shat if it kills me.lol

[rockmike]

ya i miss 8 cells im runin 6 now and its killin my wheel speed,when i feel im done with the torue twist battle.Im going back to my original batt. setup which was 2 cells on each corner of the axle,this worked best overall for my truck.I switched to 6 bacause i was afraid the moped esc would go up in smoke with 8 but i read some guys on here are doing it without the genie comin out,we'll see.later

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by Tanis

I learned how to solder and made a couple 8 cell batteries. What a difference that made. I now need to get a smaller pinion because I have crazy wheel speed.

Or don't use 8 cells, try 7.

[Tanis]

I picked up a 13 tooth pinion and swapped out my 17 tooth. Now I have all kinds of torque but lost my wheel speed. Maybe I'll switch my 65 to a 55 turn now. It's fun to try new things when you're a newbie. Also picked up a set of masher 2000. Red Rocks SUCK . What shocks are the dual stage pistons for? I've got traxxas 4". They sound like they would be really good at fighting torque twist. I've been experimenting with the angle of my shocks to help fight the twist. I had them really laid down and stood them up a bit more. That helped some.
Later, Nathan.

[LIKES2CRAWL]

Originally Posted by Tanis

I picked up a 13 tooth pinion and swapped out my 17 tooth. Now I have all kinds of torque but lost my wheel speed. Maybe I'll switch my 65 to a 55 turn now. It's fun to try new things when you're a newbie. Also picked up a set of masher 2000. Red Rocks SUCK . What shocks are the dual stage pistons for? I've got traxxas 4". They sound like they would be really good at fighting torque twist. I've been experimenting with the angle of my shocks to help fight the twist. I had them really laid down and stood them up a bit more. That helped some.
Later, Nathan.

Those shocks that RockMike is talking about, I'm not sure where to get them......But, my HPI Hellfire came with some shock disks that have holes in them but there funnel shaped like this \/ or you can flip them like this /\ depending on wich way you put them in is how fast your dampening will be weather you want slower uptravel or slower down travel.

[rockmike]

what sucks so bad about the redrocks im currious,my shocks are losi xxt the pistons are made by rpm im sure they were for my associated gt but they work fine in the xxt skocks.Im not sure if they still make them nobody has said a thing about that yet.You could check tower or the net.Damn i almost bought a set of redrocks last week but i decided to wait and maybe buy a body enstead,possibly dodged one there aye.later tanis

[rockmike]

haveing the shocks as close to the wheel and close to the chassis, basicly the other angle is going to help twist also if you havent tried that yet.more angle in that direction willgive the shock more leverage to fight twist.more antisquat on the left rear than the right rear is gotta be a good way of fighting tt also try that.the combination of all these things is going to vertualy eliminate TT.im thinkin,let me know if this helps you.

[Tanis]

The problem with the red rocks is they work good for about 6-7 runs. Then the tires soften up too much. The main problem is the sidewall. It flexes so much that when you try to sidehill or turn on an incline, it just folds over all the way onto the rim and you go sideways instead of where you want to go. I even tried putting uncut foams in them, seeing as how I had 8 foams. Didn't help. Climbing straight up is great, but its the sidewalls that kill it. I just put a set of masher2ks on and the sidewall is like 3x's thicker. It flexes but doesn't roll over on the rim. The other problem is I ripped a couple holes in the sidewalls on the rocks. They are too soft.
They are going to look real good on my stampede tow rig.LOL

[SammyXp]

This thread is great. I want to understand more of the physics behind torque twist, though, and I'm curious as to just what contributes to TT.
In the Anti-Squat pic on the first page, there are two other things that change when you look at the two different geometries.



1) (In red), center of gravity. When you reduce anti-squat, you're not just going to move the link positions down and leave the trans/motor where it was. We generally move it all down (basically a ride height adjustment). How does the lower center of gravity affect TT?

2) (In blue), driveshaft angle. With more anti-squat, the axle yoke is out of line with the trans yoke by a significant amount. Does this decrease the amount of torque being applied at the axle by archimedes principle (leverage)?

[rockmike]

im not sure on this bud,4links can be very complicated if a guy whants all the answers.Ive found alot of usefull info on pirate .com.it can get pretty complex in a hurry it gets my poor skull a spinnin,but this simple chart we have in front of us is usfull,ive limited my t.w. abunch from this info,less squate=less t.w.i know i havnt answered any questions,but i dont wanna talk out my arse,spoutin out stuff that im not an expert on.lets keep this thread goin someones going to shed some more light on this subject.p.s. i do know from my build the more weight you get off that chassis the less t.w. you get,have you seen the reverse cowgirl that adam built,this is a good way to get sprung waite off the chassis,to help combat t.w. ive crawled with adam and this setup is really cool,its easy to see the advantages,hes a realy good driver to boot[dont let this get youre head inflated adam] just kiddin adam i can tell youre not that type.later

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by SammyXp

How does the lower center of gravity affect TT?

Visualize a truck with a lot of weight very high up. At a higher ride height all the weight will swing like a big heavy pendulum as the truck falls to the side due to the torque forces. At a lower ride height the pendulum won't be placed as high, and won't swing as far. (So to speak.) Tape a Sub C pack to the roof of your truck and notice the difference. It would make the spring compress more as well, as the weight is really thrown over to the side. And then try taping it to the belly pan. Big difference.

That's why it makes sense when people say the more weight you can get off the chassis the better. There's less weight to be influenced by the twisting chassis motion.

Usually the springs are too soft, or the shock angle is too laid back and causes a major falling rate suspension set up. Then there's the squat/anti squat stuff...

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by SammyXp

In the Anti-Squat pic on the first page, there are two other things that change when you look at the two different geometries.

I was rereading the thread again and would like to comment on this. The center clearance doesn't neccesarily have to change, and therefore neither would the driveshaft angle. Imagine the chassis as always being low to the ground. Just move the lower links up at their mount points. I actaully think the diagram is from a drag racing car standpoint. Squat numbers reflect highly on how a car launches and whether it spins the tires, hooks up, or bounces down the track.

[SammyXp]

Originally Posted by EeePee

I was rereading the thread again and would like to comment on this. The center clearance doesn't neccesarily have to change, and therefore neither would the driveshaft angle. Imagine the chassis as always being low to the ground. Just move the lower links up at their mount points. I actaully think the diagram is from a drag racing car standpoint. Squat numbers reflect highly on how a car launches and whether it spins the tires, hooks up, or bounces down the track.

Yeah, true. But it's not likely that you'd just drill mounting points up higher and leave the belly dragging on the ground, right?

It's still as close as we're going to get to correlating squat to torque twist, I guess.

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by SammyXp

... and leave the belly dragging on the ground, right?

I agree. But my truck's have their lower links just about parallel with ground, just like your lower chassis position diagram picture thing shows. So it's not too far off. And my trucks are belly draggers. Remember tire diameter...

[5150bronco]

Originally Posted by LIKES2CRAWL

LIKES2CRAWL - Yes I'm running the motor backwards. I'd preferred to have to motor on the right side to help the torque roll issue.

This is what RIKPAL said to me in his thread about his laydown BULU2 thread, might be somthing to try Mike.

Oh and that sucks about the waterfall place, I'll have to go check it out anyways.....

So, is your motor pinion gear facing forward or backwards.....?

Thanks......!

Thanks for everyone for posting the info....this really helped me out!

[LIKES2CRAWL]

Now that ^^^^^^ is kinda confusing.
Who are you asking about?