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Castle Creations NEW lineup if Sensored motors

I totally get that.

What I am trying to point out, as shown in the video, not the entire length of the rotor is 'propulsion' magnet. There is a dumbbell looking thing on the end of the rotor that is described as 'sensor' magnets.

I think what you mean is size comparison isn't perfect when comparing a slightly longer sensored vs sensorless cans.

First off, both types always have spacers fore/aft of the rotor, 6-10mm from what I've seen. The gap on either side is dead space on both motor types, so it doesn't reduce the armature or winding length. Modern sensors take up less than 2mm since they're on a pcb "ring", and usually in the gap around the rear bearing.

Below you can see the shaft spacers & how thin the sensor board is:
Castle-Creations-Sensored-Brushless-Motors-5.jpg
 
I'm SURE most of the guys commenting over this Know the differences... but for those who don't or think they have more to learn....I wanted to post this up.



This is some information that Castle Creations provided on their website explaining.....

WHY SENSORED?






Drivers in all applications demand clean starts when coming off the line. Crawler fans require high-precision low speed control and torque for climbing, racers need precision and predictability, and dragsters don’t have a millisecond to spare. To achieve all of these performance demands and more, we have integrated rotor position sensor technology with our improved high power and high efficiency motor design. Through the use of our sensors, the position of the rotor is always known by the ESC. This eliminates the possibility of encountering cogging or inconsistency during startup. Users will experience PRECISE throttle control and BUTTERY SMOOTH starts plus the RAW POWER and LONGER RUN TIMES that our highly efficient motors produce.

WHAT MAKES AN EXCEPTIONAL MOTOR?

When tasked with designing a sensored motor our engineers started with the question,

“What makes a motor great?”
Efficiency
You can push it harder (gear it up)
You can run it longer (with the same battery)
It stays cool under extreme loads
Reliability
Ability to withstand the harsh demands of any RC application
Long-life, high-quality components
Proven manufacturing techniques
EFFICIENCY IS KEY

The higher the efficiency of a motor the more power it can produce without overheating, which allows you to safely run higher gear ratios. The higher the efficiency of a motor, the less power it takes to produce the same output power, which allows you to run longer on a single charge. The higher the efficiency of the motor, the less energy it turns into heat; keeping it cool under extreme loads. Efficiency equals performance.

RELIABILITY CAN’T BE IGNORED

Without a robust and reliable design, efficiency will only go so far. RC enthusiasts love pushing their equipment to the edge. The Castle engineers know this and spared no expense when developing a design that could hold up to the harsh conditions that the RC community will throw at it. Oversized NMB bearings and vibration dampening system ensure the longest bearing life possible. High-strength, high-temperature grade neodymium sintered magnets combined with a high-strength Kevlar wrap ensures the integrity of the rotor is not compromised during harsh running conditions. Our proprietary winding techniques allow us to produce a stator assembly that is the lowest possible resistance, resulting in a cooler running motor. A cooler motor has a longer lifetime. Construction of our motor required careful component selection; each verified through internal testing to ensure the highest efficiency possible. In the end, the result is a motor with unmatched quality, performance, and reliability. We wouldn’t put our name on anything less.

IMPROVED 4-POLE 12-SLOT design boasts exceptional EFFICIENCY and produces LESS HEAT.
QUIETSENSE™ technology shields the sensors from magnetic field noise generated from the motor coils and keeps your motor and ESC in sync at all times. Use of a Flux Shield™ in conjunction with secondary Sense Magnets delivers even HIGHER PRECISION and MORE EFFICIENT startups.
Our OPTIMIZED design eliminates the need for mechanical timing adjustments. Our sensor alignment method delivers uniform timing and torque in both directions, automatically.
REBUILDABLE design allows users to replace front end bell/bearing assembly or rotor/shaft assembly.
ROAR standard sensor port and labeled connections.
Updated modern and sleek design; looks as cool as it performs.
Immense care is taken by our US design team during every step of the development process. While using the highest quality components is important, design is equally important. Our experienced, in-house engineering team, located in Olathe, Kansas, has spent countless hours simulating and developing the most efficient design. Development includes magnetic simulations, custom winding techniques, and rigorous, real-world testing of the final product.

You will reap the benefits of longer run times on one battery and a cooler running motor that can be pushed harder.

We take OVERPOWERING seriously.


Castle engineers always add a little something extra in their designs that takes your performance to the next level. We have not skimped here. Many customers have utilized our industry leading software functionality that Castle Link* offers. When paired with a Castle Creations sensor supported ESC, like the MAMBA MICRO X, MAMBA MAX PRO or MAMBA MONSTER X, you can unlock advanced tuning capabilities that Castle Link provides specifically for sensored motors

SMARTSENSE™ uses the motors sensors to start the motor to provide smooth starts, excellent torque, and low-speed drivability. Once the motor is turning, it seamlessly transitions to Castle’s ULTRA- EFFICIENT sensorless mode. When running, a motor must transition between different load points and a different timing advance is required for optimal efficiency at all load points. Using mechanical timing adjustments alone, you can only target one driving condition, such as higher start power or higher top end speed. This sacrifices performance and efficiency during the other driving phases. Electronic timing in SMARTSENSE™ will advance timing automatically for peak performance during all driving conditions. This allows users to combine the best of both worlds in an unrivaled HYBRID between smooth sensored startups and high-efficiency sensorless drive.

With a Castle sensored ESC and sensored motor you will have the ULTIMATE POWER PLANT for your vehicle. Users will experience PRECISE throttle control, BUTTERY SMOOTH starts, PEAK PERFORMANCE and EFFICIENCY throughout the full throttle range. You will feel the POWER and LONGER RUN TIMES that a WORLD-CLASS motor produces.

It’s not magic… it’s SMARTSENSE™.
 
Guess I'll have to pop into castle in Olathe one day after work. Gotta check out this motor. Sounds promising. No mentioning of waterproofing.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
I saw on there instagram that the sensor board has conformal coating on it. They said it can take some splashes from water.
 
It's great to see them finally do it. Great to get low speed operation a bit better, although the latest sensor less startup routine is crazy good. Look for a new Castle link this week that will update my OEM BLE controller. Sensored and sensorless startup is now only limited by motor design.

Don't expect much refined startup with sensors on Castle motors though. Even sensored, it won't be anywhere as controllable as Tekin or Holmes motors. The detent force of Castle motors is extremely high, typical minimum startup rpms will still be 1000 and higher. I had three sensored prototypes built with their 1406 and 1410 production stator and rotor. Fantastic bash and race motors, but not at all tuned for controllable operation from zero rpm. They are engineered for efficiency and power, and nothing else.
 
Keep in mind I'm probably the biggest motor snob here, so take my comment with a grain of salt. What Castle considers "buttery smooth starts" are way beyond the controllability I expect from a motor in a crawler. What do you expect from a bunch of bashers and racers though? 1000 rpm seems smooth in a stampede.
 
It's great to see them finally do it. Great to get low speed operation a bit better, although the latest sensor less startup routine is crazy good. Look for a new Castle link this week that will update my OEM BLE controller. Sensored and sensorless startup is now only limited by motor design.

Don't expect much refined startup with sensors on Castle motors though. Even sensored, it won't be anywhere as controllable as Tekin or Holmes motors. The detent force of Castle motors is extremely high, typical minimum startup rpms will still be 1000 and higher. I had three sensored prototypes built with their 1406 and 1410 production stator and rotor. Fantastic bash and race motors, but not at all tuned for controllable operation from zero rpm. They are engineered for efficiency and power, and nothing else.
I'm just curious what is different about castles stators and rotors compared to yours. I believe that the 3100 1406 and the 2600 1410 will be 1.5Y instead of 1Y.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
 
What Castle considers "buttery smooth starts" are way beyond the controllability I expect from a motor in a crawler. What do you expect from a bunch of bashers and racers though? 1000 rpm seems smooth in a stampede.

Yup. I've never liked CC escs for crawling. Too coggy or twitchy. Cheap Chinese stuff is way smoother. For racing and bashing though, CC does just fine.
 
I don't know about coggy or twitchy. My Sidewinder 3s are awesome, my MMPs are awesome, my MMX is awesome, all smooth as silk.
 
My last and current CC esc is a MMP. Every motor I pair it with has poor low end control. There is a noticeable difference between sensored and nonsensored, so it's not like it isn't working, it just isn't how I'd like it. Pair those same motors with a cheap Xcar and everything is dandy.

Honestly I chalk it up to Castle being more concerned about go-fast stuff than super fine and slow start ups in crawlers. Maybe the new stuff has got all that worked out...
 
Same here. I haven't tried that many different brand ESCs but of the ones I have tried, my Castle ESCs have always been the better choice for many reasons including performance. If I'm missing out on a better ESC, I'd love to give one a try to compare. I'm not really interested in the $30, no name, Chinese knockoff, "Just as good as any Castle or Tekin" ESCs but, if say Hobbywing or some other reputable company made an ESC that had the features of an SV3 or MMX but performed much better, I'd be very interested to test one out. Better products are always around the corner and can come from anywhere.
 
Castle is pretty good crawling brushed. Their drag brake isn't phenomenal but it works ok. I used to run my bouncer with a trackstar 150A esc and 4 pole 4250 sensored motor. It wouldn't crawl to save it's ass (duh) but it was great bashing. Hook that same motor and rig to an mmp and it is damned good down low and mid/full throttle is about what it was with the trackstar.

I haven't used a holmes ble so I can't speak on it but I can say when it comes to brushed holmes has treated me very well and the low end resolution and control is second to nothing I've ever used. It makes me thing the ble would be great too.

The castle mini esc is a turd. The moa guys get away with it due to the gearing in the axles acting as a drag brake. The holmes brmini absolutely destroys it in a shafty.

The sv3 is a decent esc but not the best at anything, just good everywhere but brushless crawling.
 
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Yup. I've never liked CC escs for crawling. Too coggy or twitchy. Cheap Chinese stuff is way smoother. For racing and bashing though, CC does just fine.


I'm talking about castle motors. Their esc startup is smoother than any Chinese company I have had the displeasure of working with.
 
I'm just curious what is different about castles stators and rotors compared to yours. I believe that the 3100 1406 and the 2600 1410 will be 1.5Y instead of 1Y.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Different physical shapes. We both use a Japanese lamination supplier and high quality magnets. Castle uses one grade higher strength, I use one grade higher temp rating.
 
I'm talking about castle motors. Their esc startup is smoother than any Chinese company I have had the displeasure of working with.
What about the MMX? I've tried the MMX with the Tekin ROC412 3100kV and then your Puller Pro 3500kV with both 2S and 3S in my Bomber with stock gearing and I just can't get the MMX to stop cogging. Both motors work buttery smooth on a HobbyKing X-Car 35A sensored ESC though...

Castle insists the new firmware, coming this week, will fix the cogging. At this point I don't trust them.

My trials and tribulations with the MMX are well documented here:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-rr10-bomber/571936-jato-bomber-4.html#post5572769
 
What about the MMX? I've tried the MMX with the Tekin ROC412 3100kV and then your Puller Pro 3500kV with both 2S and 3S in my Bomber with stock gearing and I just can't get the MMX to stop cogging. Both motors work buttery smooth on a HobbyKing X-Car 35A sensored ESC though...

Castle insists the new firmware, coming this week, will fix the cogging. At this point I don't trust them.

My trials and tribulations with the MMX are well documented here:
http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/axial-rr10-bomber/571936-jato-bomber-4.html#post5572769

I have multiple MMX systems, they do not startup like that. The new firmware may fix it, worth a shot. It looks like your radio might be the root issue though. a dirty throttle pot will cause that sort of jerking. Some escs smooth the radio signal more than Castle. Castle has minimal filtering for faster throttle response.
 
I have multiple MMX systems, they do not startup like that. The new firmware may fix it, worth a shot. It looks like your radio might be the root issue though. a dirty throttle pot will cause that sort of jerking. Some escs smooth the radio signal more than Castle. Castle has minimal filtering for faster throttle response.
Thank you for the info. That's an interesting bit of information. I did try two different radios systems though and that also didn't change the cogging.
 
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