Reinventing my AX10...(again) Sucker Punch Chassis time.

[Master Basher]

I coined my screen name because of this rig. Circa 2008:


In with the brushless Novak Goat 18.5t setup that started the unabated "bashing" of this rig.


Remember the poop pipe dig?

close up:


Since then it's had a couple other dig units, but now it's going to be my sporty class rig so all the dig crap comes off and the chassis gets replaced by a SP. Thanks Travis for the quick shipment of this awesome chassis!

Only thing that I'm keeping from the original build are the axles, front servo plate, transmission, my mip shafts, and... I think that's it!

I was so pleased with my vp slw wheels on my 2.2p rig, I had to have a set for my sporty build:

.7 wide

no detail of the xr10 conversion, but here are some pics and my rc bros weight system:





Not planning on running with that much weight, I was just seeing how much I could pack on without interference. That is the limit with 600 offset vanquish hubs. 2.7oz.

[Master Basher]

tried out this steering setup but I didn't like it, and I really wasn't sure how shocks would work with it.




Here is what I did decide on for steering:


stock ax10 front servo plate will work just fine with some additional holes for servo placement and upper link attachment.

got some dlux axles and made all the clearance necessary to fully utilize all of the available steering if I wanted to.

[Master Basher]

I have a 43% front link to 57% rear link ratio. Seems very long in the back. I've never built a modern sporty, what do you think about that? It doesn't seem like I see a lot in that way on here, but I am just trying to figure out how I want the links set up. I will make 1/8" uppers out of ti when I decide on my geometry.






I made a steering arm to bring the steering drag link to knuckle attachment way outside of the kingpin. What this does for me is allow the steering servo to have a very good lever arm on the knuckle even when the steering is very far to the left. It will give good servo control at the far left steering, much more so than if just zero ackermann servo arms where used. The arm needs to be trimmed out a little still. The sacrifice made here is the arm is closer to the tire than would be otherwise.

[cboggs]

Nice start on the sporty, your gonna love that chassis. I personally would move the chassis back a little but everyone likes different setups. As long as it works for you and you have no binding then theres nothing wrong with it.

[Crawllife]

Well, the chassis is the right one. Can't go wrong with products from Erik either. I have no opinion about your link bias because I don't think that hard. Honesty being the best policy, if you want the ideal links for the chassis, NCD sudu links are perfect. I even found that I use the low clearance set Tomi sent me. As long as you set those uppers so that your servo is sitting level with the ground, life will be good. IMO, my low pro links and EYD voodoos give me more belly clearance than a lot of my buds I crawl with. I'd also consider a flat faced wheel. You may not want to run a lot of weight but I just seem to be adding more and more with positive result. Hope that helps. I also run Tomi's front axle plate and love it as well. Hope you guys are still enjoying crawling as much as you were at ECC

[Master Basher]

Crawlife, I was under the impression that perfect pinion angle was far more important to the behavior of tbe suspension than servo position...I was actually going to clock it further forward to get the front lined out even better. Why do you say servo needs to be flat?

Cb, I dont really have enough experience to know if the links would be better closer to even or not. These are links that I have laying around so I thought id try them for a bit. what do u know about the chatacteristics a long rear make up might impart on my rig? Good or bad.

[ROWDY RACING]

You want flat pinion angles.

[Master Basher]

tighten up a little.






Coat hanger for trial steering link, close but not yet.


Gotta thread it through here:

[cboggs]

Originally Posted by Master Basher

Crawlife, I was under the impression that perfect pinion angle was far more important to the behavior of tbe suspension than servo position...I was actually going to clock it further forward to get the front lined out even better. Why do you say servo needs to be flat?

Cb, I dont really have enough experience to know if the links would be better closer to even or not. These are links that I have laying around so I thought id try them for a bit. what do u know about the chatacteristics a long rear make up might impart on my rig? Good or bad.

From what I see if the chassis was moved back a little it would give you more rear shock adjustment, your angle is pretty much maxed out where its at. Try it how it is first since you already got the links, it doesn't look bad where it is.

[ROWDY RACING]

Flat pinion angles=pinion parallel to the ground, jacking them up for moa clearance is not ideal.

[Master Basher]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

Flat pinion angles=pinion parallel to the ground, jacking them up for moa clearance is not ideal.

Oh I didn't do it for clearance. I was under the impression that the straighter the driveline the better for all things power transmission. This holds true for race cars and drag racers and joint longevity. I was also under the impression that any abrupt bends at the pinion were particularly bad if close to the axles.

Isn't that why these newer chassis have the motor offset to the side, to lessen the sharp angles in the driveline?

I don't understand how flat pinion angle would be ideal.

[Master Basher]

Originally Posted by cboggs

From what I see if the chassis was moved back a little it would give you more rear shock adjustment, your angle is pretty much maxed out where its at. Try it how it is first since you already got the links, it doesn't look bad where it is.

I'm looking for some big bores. I'm not terribly fond of the scx10's, but that's what I had laying around.

[cboggs]

Originally Posted by Master Basher

I'm looking for some big bores. I'm not terribly fond of the scx10's, but that's what I had laying around.

The Axial Icon shocks are nice and smooth, try and stay with a 3.5" shock as that's what the chassis was designed around.

[ROWDY RACING]

It's a crawler not a drag car, if you like torque twist and bad performance don't take my advice. The most successful shafty chassis ever came with links that set up the axles with the pinions parallel to the ground, GC-3A FTW!

[Master Basher]

^I thought that torque twist was a result of having major driveline angles...but you are saying major angles with respect to the ground cause tt. I did not know that.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by Master Basher

^I thought that torque twist was a result of having major driveline angles...but you are saying major angles with respect to the ground cause tt. I did not know that.

Among other things correct, especially the rear axle, steering and approach angle suffer with the front. I can't really put it in words just trust me, people that can explain it have and it works. Look at rigs that win comps.

[Crawllife]

I apologize for creating confusion basher. I was under the impression you were at mock up and no further. Rowdy and Cboggs know a hell of a lot more than I about your pinion angle. I suppose " level out your servo " is vague. When you adjust your uppers and your front axle plate sits with your servo level to the ground, you'll be in a better spot. You may think it's a poor pinion angle but as your rig flexes and your shocks compress, the drive shaft/pinion angle straightens out. If you try to set up your rig to have the shafts straight into the pinion on the axle, your servo will get snagged on the first golf ball sized rock you drive over. Mo like a bulldozer than a crawler. At any rate, listen to the other guys. They win shit.

[Master Basher]

Had to shim the ring gear bearing towards the pinion because this new underdrive had 1.28mm deep wells for the bolt heads that connect it to the locker instead of 1.53mm deep wells like the stock ring gear. The heads were snagging on the case halfs that were pressed together and causing interference. The shims I used were the same as I used for shimming the axles in the knuckles to eliminate slop. I used 0.062" in the axles and a .010" or two. I just used one of the 0.010" in the rear end. It was enough so that there is no slop whatsoever. When the pinion turns, the axles turn. I am not happy with the gear mesh though, it's a little tight/notchy. I'm going to get some 0.005" and see how I like them. The screw heads no longer rub on the plastic axle housing though.




92927A578
(Same as 91437A777)
Spring Steel Metric Shim for Screw Shoulders Shortening,.010" Thick, 10mm ID, 14.73mm OD, 10mm Thrd
In stock at $6.75 per Pack
This product is sold in Packs of 5

McMaster Carr and 1/8" and 3/16" gr5 ti rod is such a great way to make custom rods. I wish I could use 1/8" for everything, but it just isn't stout enough. I hope I like this 3/16" rod and 10-32 die as much as I've liked my 5-40 die and my 1/8" rod.

[Crawllife]

I didn't want to just make a statement without showing you what I meant dude. We are all trying to figure out what makes these trucks do what they do. My servo appears to be a bit more " rocked forward" due to the double sided tape holding the guard on. It may not be perfectly level but this is close to what your looking for. I've thought about taking a hair off of my front uppers to get it perfectly level. However for a new guy, I've had some luck with this rig and shocks and knuckle weight are all I plan on messing with on this truck for the rest of the year. I'm very happy with it! I'm just trying to help dude. Most of the guys that I try to emulate their builds have commented on this thread. They know what their talking about bro. Lastly, since I have a set of low clearance links that I stand behind ( with voodoos for a hair of hight), I have a spare set of Ti ones Dlux made me that I won't be using. I can't donate them but if your interested, pm me ok. Hope I helped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Master Basher]

Originally Posted by Crawllife

I didn't want to just make a statement without showing you what I meant dude. We are all trying to figure out what makes these trucks do what they do. My servo appears to be a bit more " rocked forward" due to the double sided tape holding the guard on. It may not be perfectly level but this is close to what your looking for. I've thought about taking a hair off of my front uppers to get it perfectly level. However for a new guy, I've had some luck with this rig and shocks and knuckle weight are all I plan on messing with on this truck for the rest of the year. I'm very happy with it! I'm just trying to help dude. Most of the guys that I try to emulate their builds have commented on this thread. They know what their talking about bro. Lastly, since I have a set of low clearance links that I stand behind ( with voodoos for a hair of hight), I have a spare set of Ti ones Dlux made me that I won't be using. I can't donate them but if your interested, pm me ok. Hope I helped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey thanks, yeah I was just confused to hear some stuff...here is what I am understanding right now;

Torque twist is less of a concern on the front axle (because we don't spend much time in reverse?), so getting the servo out of the way in in a good position takes precedence. Rear axle, point the pinion towards the trans output because there is no steering geometry to be adversely affected?

Thanks again for the feedback and advice. I need to cut the front uppers down a little to get better level, right now they are a little too long. I appreciate the link offer though.

I just got it all slapped together tonight for a test run without a rear driveshaft though. The 12t pinion and the 87t spur seem to be better suited together than I thought they would be with the 35t motor.

On a crappy note, my 5-40 die for making 1/8" ti links finally chipped a tooth and won't make threads anymore. It was a carbon steel one and it made over 16 ends (8 links) before it broke. I treated it very badly once or twice as well, so I'd say it was a good $16 investment. I'm getting a 6-32 die and I think it will be a little easier to use.