RCCrawler Forums

mattnin · 09-16-2008, 09:07 AM

I thought BLM didn't require a permit, only Parks and Rec.

Mule · 09-16-2008, 10:27 AM

I think it would be best if some of us did a scouting trip up there to check it out first. If someone lives up there, it would be easier for you to do it too. I just suggested it because I know there is camping space and plenty of room for parking. I'm not sure how close to rocks the lower flat area is..... It's been 3 years since I was up there last.

The place I'm talking about is maybe 5 minutes South of Beunie. Johnson village is where 285 and 24 come together. This is the road that crossed the farm fields where the un used state penetentary land is. It's a public access road, you have to make sure to close the gate when you go through or they get mad.

We should not need a permit from the BLM to run a comp there. To camp you don't need anything either. People always do it and have for years. The BLM guys up there are cool, I was the first rig through and helped them when they re routed Chinamans a few years back. Now, if you charge admission and have vendors, that's another story.

Semi official directions from a web page and my changes:
From Denver, Take Hwy 285 west towards Buena Vista. After around 90 miles, you will go over a small pass and down toward Johnson Village (good place to get gas!). Just before crossing the Arkansas river (about 300 yds before town), CR 301 will be on your left. Turn there and head about 1/2-1 mile down until you get the dirt road on the left with a green gate. Go through the gate and continue a few hundred yards to the other gate. Go through that one also and then just go straight ahead. You will see the large sign marking the trail head. (If you turn left after the second gate, that will bring you to Chinamans gultch).

http://www.mapquest.com/mq/8-Wb7l6uWhkLUXtfWB

PS, I think it usually takes me around 2 - 2.5 hours to get there sometimes more depending on the road work being done.

666 · 09-16-2008, 02:06 PM

Guys I am trying to do this by the books as legal as possiable. I know in certain areas you are required a permit for a gathering of 60-something +/- people.

If you feel that your plan is better or want to take this into your own hands go ahead. I suggested this as an idea, never set a date or anything, you guys did that.

Mule · 09-16-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666

Guys I am trying to do this by the books as legal as possiable. I know in certain areas you are required a permit for a gathering of 60-something +/- people.

If you feel that your plan is better or want to take this into your own hands go ahead. I suggested this as an idea, never set a date or anything, you guys did that.

OOPS, didn't mean to step on your toes - Sorry!
I happened to see the thread and had the ideas for the places. I'll let you deal - that cool?

LMK if you need some recon done. You and I can grab some people and do some crawling up there, I mean recon work.... Yeah, that's it, my wife may just buy it. As for the BLM, LMK if you want me to track down the guy in charge up there. I had the western region supers number at one time, I can see what I can find if you want it. BOSS!!!!!

I made a call to the BLM office in Canon City and am waiting back for the Outdoor Recreation Permits person to call me back. I'll give you the skinny on what I find out when she calls. That should at least answer the questions from everyone and help you out.....
Greg

mattnin · 09-16-2008, 08:37 PM

The Western Colorado RC Crawlers are still going to show up on Oct 4th. Our head judge is willing to set up a course, I'll set up a course, and if anyone on the East Slope is willing to set up a course, you are more than welcomed.

We have judges, but I am very interested in seeing how the East Slope guys judge, so if anyone from the East Slope wants to judge, let us know!

Also very interested to see how East Slope guys set up a course too.

I'll bring our competition kit. It just basically consists of a milk crate full of halved tennis balls, a couple clipboards and two stopwatches. I know Doc purchased a bunch of cool Axial gates, maybe he'll bring them.

*MULE*, thank you so much for posting those sites! That spot where you showed that picture is AMAZING and that is where this competition should be. Unless there are any objections, lets have it there.

Now, should I rent a hotel, or just party it out with the old lady in a tent near the site

Agama · 09-16-2008, 09:04 PM

I'm still planning on going too! Most likely be camping out Saturday night. Should be a great day of crawling.

savagesteve11 · 09-17-2008, 08:17 AM

thanks guys cant wait to meet, looking for a good day out, funny the placea we happen to run into other crawlers

Mule · 09-17-2008, 11:56 AM

I just got off the phone with the BML permitting person. We need to keep the group size per location (I will explain it in a minute) down to about 20 ish people. If any one location has close to 30 people with vehicles, there will need to be a permit and that is impossible at this time. Oct 4th is too close, there would be insurance, fees and planning needed. Her advise is to split it up to a couple locations. Which may be good anyway. She also said the camping in that location is marginal for space since the prison land is bordering the flat area. That being said, Ruby Mtn. Camp ground is a very short distance to the south, on the same side of the river. It is a really cool camp ground that has rocks withing walking distance. The other camp ground in the area that is within two miles is the KOA on hwy 285 about 300 yds before 301 turnoff.

We really need to have some people do some recon of the areas first. To plan this without seeing it is not going to work. If there are 12 or 15 people that want to camp out the 4th and do recon that would probably help 666 out. He needs to be in charge of an East West "Official" comp, otherwise we are just slapping him in the face for having an idea and trying to head it up. I guess there could be two things going on here, but that's not my say. Majority rules.

On the pic I posted. That is the Chinamans trail. I was using it to show what kind of outcrops are there. It would be absolutely killer to use, but, we would have to move gates every time a 4-wheeler group or vehicle came through. That would suck.... But doable.

My advise is to do the recon work first and just see if we can even do it there. Again, I just posted up these places to help out. Last time I was there it was in a 1:1 rock crawler leading 21 people up the trail..... I think Ruby Mtn camp ground area, Chinamans/Carnage Gulch areas and the Buena Vista park (on the east side) need to be checked out.

later
Greg

666 · 09-17-2008, 01:04 PM

Now you see what I am talking about? I was thinking on the Ruby Mtn. area.

slowrockr · 09-17-2008, 01:08 PM

Right at the trail head to Carnage there's more than enough room to camp out for everyone. We've camped there with a couple dozen people before with no problems. Theres plenty of rock to be had there, problem might be finding a large enough area to accommodate 3 courses without spilling onto the 1:1 trail. So I guess my point is don't worry about room, there's plenty just depends on how far into the trail to hike for course setup but it can't be any worse than Red Rocks

Mule · 09-17-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666

Now you see what I am talking about? I was thinking on the Ruby Mtn. area.

Ruby is pretty nice, it's my 2nd favorite camp spot next to my property.....
If I had better rocks down there, we could do it there. Only it's SE of Salida in the wet mountains.....

How about a compromise situation? Could we do a couple outings, one for an official advertised comp and another for a bone crew outing?

savagesteve11 · 09-18-2008, 08:19 AM

next one closer our way, and more info shared, still need dim. for the trophy so M40 can laser cut us a plate for it

Mule · 09-18-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savagesteve11

next one closer our way, and more info shared, still need dim. for the trophy so M40 can laser cut us a plate for it

Other than Bueni, where else is a good middle of the road? It it's too far the west guys won't show up..... Actually, I need to stay out of this since I was really never supposed to be a part of it.... As you were soldiers.

savagesteve11 · 09-18-2008, 10:01 PM

im game for anywhere ijust want to crawl with a bunch of good people and have fun maybe we all just get together and do a follow the leader ?

slowrockr · 09-18-2008, 10:30 PM

I would still vote for Carnage just so I can justify bringing the 1:1 too.

666 · 09-18-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrockr

I would still vote for Carnage just so I can justify bringing the 1:1 too.

I thought it would be dead by then?

I am having a really hard time doing this with as much people could show, and have a ranger or popo show up and shut us down.

slowrockr · 09-18-2008, 10:54 PM

I'm gonna wait till they let me know exactly how many spots will be takin from the LCQ to fill the field before I tear it down.
I'd agree, without going all legit it's probably not a good idea. No need to piss the rangers off and have no chance of ever doing a comp there.

Mule · 09-19-2008, 11:39 AM

If a larger number of people camped off sight and rode in together it would work. It's not the number of people standing there, it's the impact of all the vehicles and camps that she was concerned about. If there were 30 tents and 30 vehicles, she would say no deal. If you had it split between rocks on Carnage and Chinamans, then the group would be diverse enough that it would not draw attention. Especially if there was a way to join forces with chargers. IE a generator running a few outlets with inverters, or a generator w/ a 12v outlet that would run several chargers.
Again, keep in mind it's the number of campers and cars........

Now, for the 1:1 thing, that would be fun too. Mine isn't running yet though.

skid plate · 09-21-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrockr

I'm gonna wait till they let me know exactly how many spots will be takin from the LCQ to fill the field before I tear it down.
I'd agree, without going all legit it's probably not a good idea. No need to piss the rangers off and have no chance of ever doing a comp there.

After talking with others, I have to agree. The wait will be worth it.
No need to pee in our pot so to speak.
JMO

Will look at the calendar and see if I can get over to G.J. and come comp with the West slope group. Should be a fun time.

JC

jason · 09-21-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666

Guys I have been waiting to hear back from BLM regarding getting a permit and so on, and still nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattnin

I thought BLM didn't require a permit, only Parks and Rec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666

Guys I am trying to do this by the books as legal as possiable. I know in certain areas you are required a permit for a gathering of 60-something +/- people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattnin

The Western Colorado RC Crawlers are still going to show up on Oct 4th.

Trying to do an event this size without the proper permits is just asking for trouble. Several of us have worked very hard holding events for years and working with the proper people to make it happen legally. Holding even 1 big event without going through the proper channels and working things out ahead of time could really set us back with the BLM and forest service.

Patrick is trying to do the right thing, sadly though the right thing sometimes takes time.

Here are just some ideas for you all about some of the expenses of permits. They charge $5.00 per person that will be in attendance. Depending on the location and the terrain they also require either a $1M or $2M insurance policy.

I'd love to be part of this event, but I think with the timing of things and the terrain between denver and grand junction (all mountains) i am thinking the event is gonna have to wait until the spring. The weather here in Denver will be nice for the next 2 months, the weather in Junction will be nice for the next 2 months, but in the middle there it could be a blizzard anytime now.

09-16-2008, 10:27 AM	#82
Mule Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: CO burbs Posts: 261	I think it would be best if some of us did a scouting trip up there to check it out first. If someone lives up there, it would be easier for you to do it too. I just suggested it because I know there is camping space and plenty of room for parking. I'm not sure how close to rocks the lower flat area is..... It's been 3 years since I was up there last. The place I'm talking about is maybe 5 minutes South of Beunie. Johnson village is where 285 and 24 come together. This is the road that crossed the farm fields where the un used state penetentary land is. It's a public access road, you have to make sure to close the gate when you go through or they get mad. We should not need a permit from the BLM to run a comp there. To camp you don't need anything either. People always do it and have for years. The BLM guys up there are cool, I was the first rig through and helped them when they re routed Chinamans a few years back. Now, if you charge admission and have vendors, that's another story. Semi official directions from a web page and my changes: From Denver, Take Hwy 285 west towards Buena Vista. After around 90 miles, you will go over a small pass and down toward Johnson Village (good place to get gas!). Just before crossing the Arkansas river (about 300 yds before town), CR 301 will be on your left. Turn there and head about 1/2-1 mile down until you get the dirt road on the left with a green gate. Go through the gate and continue a few hundred yards to the other gate. Go through that one also and then just go straight ahead. You will see the large sign marking the trail head. (If you turn left after the second gate, that will bring you to Chinamans gultch). http://www.mapquest.com/mq/8-Wb7l6uWhkLUXtfWB PS, I think it usually takes me around 2 - 2.5 hours to get there sometimes more depending on the road work being done. Last edited by Mule; 09-16-2008 at 10:30 AM. Reason: add

09-16-2008, 08:37 PM	#85
mattnin Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Grand Junction Posts: 91	The Western Colorado RC Crawlers are still going to show up on Oct 4th. Our head judge is willing to set up a course, I'll set up a course, and if anyone on the East Slope is willing to set up a course, you are more than welcomed. We have judges, but I am very interested in seeing how the East Slope guys judge, so if anyone from the East Slope wants to judge, let us know! Also very interested to see how East Slope guys set up a course too. I'll bring our competition kit. It just basically consists of a milk crate full of halved tennis balls, a couple clipboards and two stopwatches. I know Doc purchased a bunch of cool Axial gates, maybe he'll bring them. MULE, thank you so much for posting those sites! That spot where you showed that picture is AMAZING and that is where this competition should be. Unless there are any objections, lets have it there. Now, should I rent a hotel, or just party it out with the old lady in a tent near the site Last edited by mattnin; 09-16-2008 at 08:43 PM.

09-17-2008, 11:56 AM	#88
Mule Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: CO burbs Posts: 261	I just got off the phone with the BML permitting person. We need to keep the group size per location (I will explain it in a minute) down to about 20 ish people. If any one location has close to 30 people with vehicles, there will need to be a permit and that is impossible at this time. Oct 4th is too close, there would be insurance, fees and planning needed. Her advise is to split it up to a couple locations. Which may be good anyway. She also said the camping in that location is marginal for space since the prison land is bordering the flat area. That being said, Ruby Mtn. Camp ground is a very short distance to the south, on the same side of the river. It is a really cool camp ground that has rocks withing walking distance. The other camp ground in the area that is within two miles is the KOA on hwy 285 about 300 yds before 301 turnoff. We really need to have some people do some recon of the areas first. To plan this without seeing it is not going to work. If there are 12 or 15 people that want to camp out the 4th and do recon that would probably help 666 out. He needs to be in charge of an East West "Official" comp, otherwise we are just slapping him in the face for having an idea and trying to head it up. I guess there could be two things going on here, but that's not my say. Majority rules. On the pic I posted. That is the Chinamans trail. I was using it to show what kind of outcrops are there. It would be absolutely killer to use, but, we would have to move gates every time a 4-wheeler group or vehicle came through. That would suck.... But doable. My advise is to do the recon work first and just see if we can even do it there. Again, I just posted up these places to help out. Last time I was there it was in a 1:1 rock crawler leading 21 people up the trail..... I think Ruby Mtn camp ground area, Chinamans/Carnage Gulch areas and the Buena Vista park (on the east side) need to be checked out. later Greg Last edited by Mule; 09-17-2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason: fix

09-16-2008, 09:07 AM	#81
mattnin Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Grand Junction Posts: 91	I thought BLM didn't require a permit, only Parks and Rec.

09-16-2008, 02:06 PM	#83
666 MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 10,939	Guys I am trying to do this by the books as legal as possiable. I know in certain areas you are required a permit for a gathering of 60-something +/- people. If you feel that your plan is better or want to take this into your own hands go ahead. I suggested this as an idea, never set a date or anything, you guys did that.

09-16-2008, 09:04 PM	#86
Agama Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 954	I'm still planning on going too! Most likely be camping out Saturday night. Should be a great day of crawling.

09-17-2008, 08:17 AM	#87
savagesteve11 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: clifton Posts: 2	thanks guys cant wait to meet, looking for a good day out, funny the placea we happen to run into other crawlers

09-17-2008, 01:04 PM	#89
666 MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 10,939	Now you see what I am talking about? I was thinking on the Ruby Mtn. area.

09-17-2008, 01:08 PM	#90
slowrockr I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Under the 4444 Posts: 2,345	Right at the trail head to Carnage there's more than enough room to camp out for everyone. We've camped there with a couple dozen people before with no problems. Theres plenty of rock to be had there, problem might be finding a large enough area to accommodate 3 courses without spilling onto the 1:1 trail. So I guess my point is don't worry about room, there's plenty just depends on how far into the trail to hike for course setup but it can't be any worse than Red Rocks

09-18-2008, 08:19 AM	#92
savagesteve11 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: clifton Posts: 2	next one closer our way, and more info shared, still need dim. for the trophy so M40 can laser cut us a plate for it

09-18-2008, 10:01 PM	#94
savagesteve11 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: clifton Posts: 2	im game for anywhere ijust want to crawl with a bunch of good people and have fun maybe we all just get together and do a follow the leader ?

09-18-2008, 10:30 PM	#95
slowrockr I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Under the 4444 Posts: 2,345	I would still vote for Carnage just so I can justify bringing the 1:1 too.

09-18-2008, 10:54 PM	#97
slowrockr I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Under the 4444 Posts: 2,345	I'm gonna wait till they let me know exactly how many spots will be takin from the LCQ to fill the field before I tear it down. I'd agree, without going all legit it's probably not a good idea. No need to piss the rangers off and have no chance of ever doing a comp there.

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09-19-2008, 11:39 AM	#98
Mule Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: CO burbs Posts: 261	If a larger number of people camped off sight and rode in together it would work. It's not the number of people standing there, it's the impact of all the vehicles and camps that she was concerned about. If there were 30 tents and 30 vehicles, she would say no deal. If you had it split between rocks on Carnage and Chinamans, then the group would be diverse enough that it would not draw attention. Especially if there was a way to join forces with chargers. IE a generator running a few outlets with inverters, or a generator w/ a 12v outlet that would run several chargers. Again, keep in mind it's the number of campers and cars........ Now, for the 1:1 thing, that would be fun too. Mine isn't running yet though.

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